Towing a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD

Willis Jeep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:36 pm **Posts:** 27

We have a horrible, rumbling noise coming from our 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD's engine. It can get worse or better for no apparent reason (15-minute trip home), but definitely gets worse as you step on the gas if it is already bad. We thought maybe it was the fuel filter, but replaced it and nothing changed. So, we're afraid to drive it.

We need to tow it about an hour away. The owners manual says if we have the 4-wheel drive version, we have to use a flatbed or a dolly. But, the wrecker service says if we have a shifter that puts it in 2-wheel drive, he can just tow it from the rear with the front wheels on the ground. He says he has a dolly, but he can't go over 35 miles per hour and it would take us a very long time - thus costing us more money. I don't want to risk damaging anything, but I'll have to look a lot harder to find someone else as cheap or who has a flatbed.

Can anyone tell me why the owner's manual tells me not to do it, but the wrecker says I'm fine? What should I do? (I have plenty of experience jumping my own car and have found very few men who try to "help" me that do it right - so I quit allowing anyone but me jump my own car. Thus, I'm not too trusting when someone tells me to go against my owner's manual.)

I'd rather have fixed the engine problem on our own, but I'm afraid to run it anymore and we already got diesel all over a bunch of towels and in my washing machine when we had no way to get to the store but walk 2 miles in order to get the smell out. I'm kind of fed up. Plus, we don't have the use of our 4-wheel drive here when we are having ice storms. Bummer. Of course, if anyone thinks they can convince me to fix it myself, I'm game to listen.

Mike92104 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:54 pm

I would find a wrecker company with a flatbed.

As far as fixing it yourself, I think we need more info.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:57 pm

or pull the driveline and have him tow it normally

Hexus · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:02 pm

Flatbed.

Scan Codes, get back to us.

No Check Engine Light probably means Rocker/Lifter issues.

VMKJCRD · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:20 pm

Mountainman wrote:

or pull the driveline and have him tow it normally

x 2 remove the drive shaft.
Its only held on to the rear diff by 4 bolts and it slides right out of the trans.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:36 pm

It's actually connected to the transfer case, and it can be pulled with the rear wheels down if the transfer case is in neutral first anyway. But disconnecting the driveshaft from the rear differential is a common practice.

Tell me more about this noise. Also, where are you? I'm the CRD traveling mechanic, and might be able to offer some insights.

Willis Jeep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:36 pm **Posts:** 27

So, the 2 wreckers we've talked to have dolly's. I'm assuming that is okay since the owners' manual said a dolly was okay. Right? There might be someone around with a flatbed, but the guys close to us charge us as much to hook up, not including an hours drive, as the guys an hour away charge for the whole trip.

If they use the dolly, then do I need to do anything special before letting them hook it up? Like, do I need to put it in neutral or something? Do I need to disconnect the driveshaft then or am I okay to just leave it alone since the wheels wouldn't be on the ground?

As far as more info, all I can say is that it is like a bad knocking sound that started when we turned it on the other day. If I remember right, it kind of sounded like a tennis shoe in a drier maybe? The knocking did not increase speed as I accelerated, but sometimes it got louder and would get softer when I let my foot off the pedal - but I'm not positive. I do know that the volume would change, but for the short trip I was on, I didn't think it was associated with what I was doing.

Willis Jeep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:36 pm **Posts:** 27

So, if this is the rocker arms, what all else would need to be checked? How much do you think we might be in for as far as cost?

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:18 pm

Willis Jeep wrote:

So, if this is the rocker arms, what all else would need to be checked? How much do you think we might be in for as far as cost?

Where are you located? Maybe someone is near to you and can help with the diagnosis.

As far as cost... You don't want to know how deep that rabbit hole can go. It could be $10, it could be $10,000. Right now, we just don't know enough to make an accurate determination.
Rocker noise should have changed speed with engine RPM, if that is what it is. As my signature line states, bad sounds usually equal REALLY bad things, so certainly don't drive it anymore.

Anything you can offer by way of other symptoms would be helpful. Was it down on power? Smoking? The sound got louder and then quieted down again... Any particulars about why that might have changed? If the sound only gets louder when you are accelerating, that is something.

When was the last time the fuel filter was changed? Is the fuel fresh and from your usual supplier?

Willis Jeep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:36 pm **Posts:** 27

We're located in nw arkansas. Down on power, yes most of the time. Smoking, possibly a little. Constant knock but it doesn't sound like rocker. Started when I started it when it was in single digits outside. Have 130,000 miles, has ECO tune at about 120,000 miles, and using 0w40 oil changed at every 6,000 miles.

Have seen smoke out of the tail pipe on occasion.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:49 pm

That's not good news.

Ok... Here's the worst case scenario: Because of the cold (was the engine cold at the time when it started?) the oil wasn't moving through the exceedingly-small passages well enough, and the rod bearings on the crankshaft starved for oil. This caused them to overheat and melt away, which then created a gap between the rod cap and the crankshaft. This could be the source of the noise you are hearing. The rod cap then may be wobbling enough to back out the rod bolts, which will then cause the rod to become detached from the crankshaft and possibly rammed through the side of the block.

Obviously you don't want that to happen. As I said, this is the worst-case scenario. I have no ability to prove or disprove that at this time. Unfortunately, I also don't know of any way to test that theory. I had 2 engines fail on the bottom end in this way, although only one of them did it while extremely cold. The second may or may not have had oil problems, but the rod bolts did back out, and the rod was shoved through the side of the block. It never ran low on oil or oil pressure. It just started tapping (Sounded like a lifter tap OR engine ping in a single cylinder) one day and 20 miles and about 5-7 minutes of idling later (over many days as I was tearing it down to try and diagnose) it just finally stuffed the rod and that was it. No warning or cause that I can determine.

If you are brave enough to try this, a cellphone video of the sound may be helpful. At the same time (to minimize the time running) have the serpentine belt removed and the intercooler-to-intake hose removed before you start. The fan doesn't need to spin, and it will make noise / wind that can get in the way of the video, as well as this other test:

Hold a dollar bill (tightly!) most of the way across the intake tube - If it is only 'sucked inward' then that would be the "normal" airflow. If it seems to also be blown outwards, that indicates that one or more rockers may have broken and the airflow is forcing its way back out.

You should be able to accomplish both of these within 10 seconds of running the engine (have a helper to start it up or film / test) and that is a minimal risk IMHO.

I really hope the dollar bill test indicates bad rockers. When was the timing belt last changed? Ever? How many miles on the jeep / engine?
If it is the rockers, they can be changed along with the timing belt for about $2300 (my labor plus parts) if I was to do it, or potentially a lot more at a dealership. It is a solid 12 hour job my way, and the book rate is (I believe) 15 or 18 hours.

If it isn't rockers... Then the engine will most likely need to be pulled to do a full teardown and rebuild on the bottom end. At least the block is still intact - that is a good thing. Otherwise, you would be looking at a new engine for $5000 plus, not counting labor.

Mike92104 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:56 pm

Do either of these sound familiar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95x7NiozPB0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvmfPgvGWPo

Willis Jeep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:36 pm **Posts:** 27

Yes, we think it sounded like the first video. Noisy and clunky. But, don't remember the chirping. No lights on dash.

Willis Jeep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:36 pm **Posts:** 27

Timing belt changed at about 100,000 miles. Now have maybe 130,000.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:35 am

Ok, that is a good thing, if it sounded like the first video. Ignore the chirping, that is a different problem: The alternator clutch pulley had failed.

The comments from that video suggest that the rockers were indeed the problem, because of a belt jumping a tooth and smashing several rockers.

Now, some more good news: Yes, there are 16 rockers. HOWEVER, you don't need to spend $47 each on them! They are available from IDparts.com for about $350 for a full set, and the timing belt can be bought separately for about $80 from Amazon. If the entire timing job wasn't done (tensioner, idlers, water pump) then that kit is also available from IDparts for $400 and also comes with fresh serpentine and timing belts.

This is good - It is not looking like my worst-case scenario from above. That makes me very happy, and saves you lots of money. Next question: Who did your timing belt job? Do they have the experience (and your trust) to go even deeper into the motor? Working to replace the rockers involves some careful teardown of the motor, things have to come out in specific ways to go back correctly. I would be happy to discuss doing the rocker job for you, if you would like me to.

--Jim

Willis Jeep · **Joined:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:36 pm **Posts:** 27

I'm still trying to find out more info and see what our garage says about their experience.

Jim, where are you located?

Meanwhile, I read in the 2nd video that lifters and cams could also be torn up by the rockers. So, if that has happened, whatever they are, is that a lot more, too?

If we switch to the 5w-40 Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 turbo diesel truck (Delvac 1) 5w-40 full synth oil, is there anything else we need to do to keep this thing from costing us more?

What else major can we expect to go wrong with this CRD??

Just really bumming here 'cause we have have had so very many huge Murphy visits this year in every area of our lives.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

A gde tune will prevent the rocker wear in the future as the soot loading is reduced by about 90%. Make sure you have your mechanic clean the intake when it is removed. hope it turns out well.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:22 pm

Willis Jeep wrote:

I'm still trying to find out more info and see what our garage says about their experience.

Jim, where are you located?
Meanwhile, I read in the 2nd video that lifters and cams could also be torn up by the rockers. So, if that has happened, whatever they are, is that a lot more, too?
If we switch to the 5w-40 Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 turbo diesel truck (Delvac 1) 5w-40 full synth oil, is there anything else we need to do to keep this thing from costing us more?
What else major can we expect to go wrong with this CRD??
Just really bumming here 'cause we have have had so very many huge Murphy visits this year in every area of our lives.

I can't answer what else might go wrong, but I can help with what has so far. I'm the traveling mechanic, so I would come to wherever you are to work on the CRD. That way, you don't have to pay the insane tow rates, just my travel costs which are a lot lower.

You mention changing oil... Which oil are you using now? Both of the oils you mentioned are approved by the owners manual, and are the easiest to source. Are you using something different?

As for the cams, valves, and any possible damage... I haven't seen that. The rockers are the designed-in failure point, so they are supposed to give way and protect everything else from being hit by the pistons. It is possible that a cam could be scored by the damaged rocker, but we won't know that until the top is taken off. Whether that will be a critical problem is also up for interpretation. Some have had minor scoring and have re-used the cams without problems. Others... Have elected to replace the cam if it is etched in any way.

Keith (GreenDieselEngineering) suggests to clean the intake. I am in agreement with this, provided there is a good reason. The intakes that I have seen so far, have all had just a thin layer of sludge on the inside - Not enough to degrade the airflow, so I hadn't messed with those. I will say that I don't know if any of them were stock computer or running a GDE tune, but I agree with Keith's suggestion: Get a GDE tune for the CRD. It will cut down on the EGR to almost nothing and the CRD will run better and happier overall.

Grannysgoat · **Posted:** Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:09 pm

If it's a 4 wheel drive, all you have to do is put the transfer case in neutral, transmission in park, key in ignition and turn it to the point where the steering wheel unlocks and then you can tow it all 4 down or on a tow dolly with the front wheels down (leave the steering centered and locked if you do it this way) or the rear wheels down. You don't have to remove either drive shaft.

By the way, I tow mine behind my motorhome all the time, speeds up to 70 for hours at a time.

If it's a 2wd, you have to either flat bed it, tow it with the front wheels down or remove the rear drive shaft and tow it rear wheels down (if it's an automatic).

Tulmaster · **Posted:** Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:55 pm

Well The owners manual does state that on 4WD models ALL Wheels should be off the ground in one form or another. While my hand selector does have a 2wd option I would not trust it with a $3500 + transmission repair. When I bought my 05 I pulled it 800 miles back from Montana with the front wheels on a car dolly and unbolted the 4 bolts of the driveline and wired the driveline to the exhaust pipe so that tranny fluid would not drip from the trans. You can rent a car dolly from U-Haul if you wish to consider that option.

Towing a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD

Who is online