Has anyone ever thought of or installed a spring loaded switch to add some glow time to the plugs with all of the hard start problems we are having with these new 7v steel plugs?

I thought most of the current issues were with the 5v steel.

Applying battery voltage directly to a 5volt or 7volt glow plug would greatly diminish its chance of survival.
Now replacing the works with a comparable 12volt plug may be more of an option.

A few years back, I did find a 12volt that looked like it would fit. You will have to search for the post though.
I am happy with my 7volt steel plugs.

I was wondering if anyone figured out how to still apply the 7v to the plugs but manually w/o reprogramming. Just trying to extend the glow as my glow plug light stays on the same amount of time if it's 30 degrees or -12 like it was this morning. I forgot to plug it in and it would not start. When it's plugged in for a couple hours prior, it starts like its summer.

Well I don't know if it works or not, but I've started waiting until the gp light goes out, then turning the key off and an on a couple of times slowly. My theory is that the glow plugs get juice each time the key is put in the on position, increasing the heat in the cylinder.

I don't have any evidence except general belief that this works, The tractor seems to start quicker if I do this trick.

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2005 CRD "Ol' Blue"
Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
My build page- RL Komodo Rear and TJM Front Bumper, armored, lifted, JBA Steel D30, 4.10s and ARB air lockers.

Why not use the 7v with the 12V source, 1 & 2 in series, and 3 & 4 in series?

BIG EDIT!

Actually, my bad, no way to do that considering the block is ground?

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2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

This got me thinking. Looking at the wiring diagrams, I wonder if it is possible to splice in a timed relay on the glow plug control circuit coming from the engine control module. Basically using the relay to add x number of seconds to the normal glow plug cycle. Of course we could also just splice in a switch on that circuit too and control them manually. I'm not sure what the computer would think about it though. I guess the first step would be to find an old glow plug module and see if you can trigger it. Does anybody have one?

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2005 Liberty CRD Limited
DIY Garage Remanufactured Engine with GDE Full Torque Eco Tune from mile zero.
ARP Studs
Cummins Lift Pump
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
DIY Rebuilt Tranny Pump
Suncoast Torque Converter
2nd Generation Fuel Head
Sears P1 Battery
Hot Diesel Solutions Thermostat

Secondary 6 volt batteries, better yet 2 so that you can charge them as a pair with the main battery and use a relay to take one out of the circuit for glow plug use?

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2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

The problem with the crd glow plug circuit is the software, not the glow plugs. I have done much sw R&D, and actual bench testing to fix this problem in my crd.

Easy fix is to simply increase the pulse in the software. Don't ask me byte locations and needed values, it's proprietary info. I did this and works great with 7v etecno's.

Its also possible to build a simple pulse generator to supply a 5v adjustable pulse to the gp relay that is dash controllable. I did this for bench testing to make sure I didn't burn out the gps during cold testing. They gotta burn red not white.
Disclaimer Note: If you inject voltage input/signals to active circuits, make sure you incorporate diode protections (debouncers/attenuators etc) so you don't back-feed/surge/fry ecu driver hw, and don't forget voltage multipliers/dividers, etc. when mixing signals. Don't forget circuits can easily latch on too (drivers share grounds with neighboring circuits). Ask me how I know ;-((

If you can locate 12v gp's from old crd applications, simply supply 5v constant to gp relay and get constant 12v relay output. This can be done with a pushbutton for custom applications if needed. Many of my customers do this on BEW/BHW/BRM tdi conversions so they can use 12v gp's and not worry about the ceramics or crappy steel gp's. The existing wires can also handle the 12v currents for short periods without worry, however front end circuit protection needs to be increased.

This is the same gp strategy from bosch used on tdi's that I applied to my crd. I spent over a year modifying the BEW gp problems that plagued tdi's, until corporate released their updated gp strategy recall from all the complaints.

For example;
5v gp pulse - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsAshsh-VTw
7v gp pulse - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvYbUrhRfaA

Please don't ask me for details, I don't freely give out proprietary engineering data that I have worked so hard to acquire. Remember, it gets passed on the the end user, so that future R&D budget is available for next years tuning challenges.

The sw mods are more than a few edits, it requires many changes in mappings for; cold/warm/hot open and closed loop running controls, along with ambient/engine temperature and elevation compensations and afterglow. If done incorrectly, the plugs can burn out in short time, and you can hurt the engine with death rattle. This is another set of startup parameters that benefit improved startup timing and fueling changes that accompany the gp changes.

Jeff

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'05 CRD, Suncoast TC, Eaton TT Diff, RocketChip Stage 2, EGR delete, too many other upgrades. Clean Diesel Racing Project.

Thanks JSR, Great info.

These look promising, 11.5 volt and are listed in Denso's catalog for VM 2.5's and 2.8's 01/02 and later.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denso-DG-176-Glow-Plug/dp/B009ZT00SO

I don't no anything about Denso quality, You would think if Denso makes one Bosch may make a similar GP.

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2005 CRD "Ol' Blue"
Red Ryder carbine-action, two hundred shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time.
My build page- RL Komodo Rear and TJM Front Bumper, armored, lifted, JBA Steel D30, 4.10s and ARB air lockers.

NGK also make one for the Export 2.5/2.8 CRDs....not sure what make my 2002 Export 2.5 CRD has fitted.
I live in a warm climate so my Jeep would start fairly well even without glow plugs...the early CRDs do not have a Glow Plug Controller....+12 volts is supplied direct to the plugs through two large relays for a time determined by the ECU...you expect about a one volt drop in voltage over the relay contacts and connectors that is why these plugs are quoted as being 11v/11.5v.

There is no error checking of the glow plugs on these early models so I do not know how one would pick up that a plug had failed other than poor starting with a bit of smoke....the ECU only checks that the two glow plug relay coils are not shorted out or open circuit.

There is an interesting chart published in the Export Service manual for the timing of these glow plugs....these can be turned on for up to 200 seconds under certain circumstances...depending on engine temperature although the Glow Plug Lamp in the cluster does not show this

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

FYI -
Here are some sample in-car glow cycles showing the differences between the oem 7v ceramics and etechno steels. I used
a variable pot on the cts to simulate the sensor resistance for cold start in my warm shop. You can also simply remove the cts plug, but motor will run bad. Note, sw mods use oem duration and afterglow stragety, just larger pulse width duty cycle. Also the gp icon on the dash has a different timer control, so it always gives the same short 3 sec duration. This is USA testing with smart electronic relay (semiconductor based, not old bang-bang icecube clicker). Also the 200sec mentioned in documentation is a tiny voltage (1/4pulse) afterglow for emissions and will cease at 200sec or when rpms hit 2600rpms, whichever is first.

oem 7v ceramic gp test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym-A_Qx_ ... 4-overview

etechno 7v steel gp test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKHgTayl ... 4-overview

Jeff

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'05 CRD, Suncoast TC, Eaton TT Diff, RocketChip Stage 2, EGR delete, too many other upgrades. Clean Diesel Racing Project.

Great demo Jeff. It appears that the full power burn lasts a lot longer than the light is on for. Can you confirm or even better show us what key cycling does? There seems to be two different opinions from two very credible sources:

1 - It will start a new full power burn each time the key is cycled even though the light only comes on once. We can take advantage of this to enhance cold starting
2 - Full power burn will only occur once and cycling the key achieves nothing so don't waste your time.

My personal experience suggests the 2nd is correct but it would be great to have some definitive proof either way.

Your video suggests a burn time of about 10-15 seconds and maybe holding off a lot longer before cranking would be of benefit.

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Share your ideas freely at https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertydiesels/

Yes cycling the key multiple times re-starts the glow cycle.
Jeff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZd3DhBtw4Y

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'05 CRD, Suncoast TC, Eaton TT Diff, RocketChip Stage 2, EGR delete, too many other upgrades. Clean Diesel Racing Project.

Nice demo, thanks for sharing it!

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

This is an interesting read and I hope you don't mind the following input.

Even though you would normally view heated steel for treatment in darkened conditions (and these are in shop lighting) it is a fair estimate that the Steel GP would be in the realms of 2400 F as it appears between yellow-white (2370 F ) and white (2550 F) this comparison can't be made for the Ceramic GP. Its properties are less known/consistent.
Steel behaves as steel without much variation as a result of alloying.
That is quite warm but this is one of the missing quanta.

I'd be thinking these bits of information need to be known to compare apples with apples.
Any chance this can be measured with a laser reader or at a pinch a calorimeter?

Denso products certainly are good quality.

It's well documented (even in the brevity of the FSM's) that the GP cycle continues after ignition. As (I think) Jeff mentioned - up to 20 0 seconds.
Good luck with this work.

Thanks for taking the time to prove this once and for all. Now I assume this ~15 seconds is the main burn with the ~200sec afterglow not being sufficient to even keep the tip glowing?

_________________
Share your ideas freely at https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertydiesels/

[quote="jsrmonster"]Yes cycling the key multiple times re-starts the glow cycle.
Jeff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZd3DhBtw4Y[/quote


If you key-on, wait for the light to go out, key-off and immediately key-on again you will not get the pre-glow with full temperature intensity.
The impact of the second key-on will be marginal to meaningless.

I had to watch this a half dozen times to see the reflection of the bulb go out with the ignition still on at 10 seconds.
It disappears just behind the steering wheel at that time.

Which gives me an idea
Instead of changing the duty cycle to the plugs, change the duration of the dash icon. I wonder how many people are just not giving the plugs enough time to heat.

I believe you when you say that the the 200 seconds mentioned is a "tiny voltage (1/4pulse) afterglow".....when talking about the USA 2005/6 models with their Glow Plug Controllers and as this is mainly a USA forum we can leave it at that.

I do not believe though that this applies to the early Export CRDs that use a standard relay to apply +12 volts to the plugs...there is no way that the relay is pulsed rapidly ON/OFF. I mentioned this fact only to compare the old style system that appears to be quite happy having +11 volts applied continously to the plugs for about 200 seconds as apposed to the newer system that appears to be more frugal in the application of voltage.

I have seen posts, on "jeepforum" I think, from an Austrian user who talks about owners there converting their "new" CRDs to a "12 volt system" to improve on cold weather starting....I will see if I can find more information on this matter as it looks to me that for the USA owners re-programming the ECM for longer glow plug ON duration may help but as Keith has pointed out there are also issues as to where the glow plug tip is situated in the fuel injection stream.

Does not really concern me as I live in a warm climate and my 2002 Export CRD starts just fine

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

I was googling about glow plugs and actually found my post with pictures:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=63113

I ran a 11.5 volt Beru GN003 in my Jeep for 10 months and over the winter.