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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:20 am 
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Are you kidding me.... you still think it's the cap..... I have 3 all new caps in on the shelf that i used to test the previous CRD with hg problems. I'll test those. But I know that it will be a waste of time.... the last pressure test indicated no leak on my previous CRDs but still they had a blown HG.

Read the forum, many are experiencing the same thing, I am not alone on this.

Enough with pressure testing already, something wierd is happening.

Any other observations?

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:00 am 
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racertracer wrote:
Are you kidding me.... you still think it's the cap..... I have 3 all new caps in on the shelf that i used to test the previous CRD with hg problems. I'll test those. But I know that it will be a waste of time.... the last pressure test indicated no leak on my previous CRDs but still they had a blown HG.

Read the forum, many are experiencing the same thing, I am not alone on this.

Enough with pressure testing already, something wierd is happening.

Any other observations?

Slapping a part on that is not known as a good part(new does not equal good) does nothing.You really have no clue how to diagnose anything.If you and others are truly having head gasket problems at this low of mileage you need to sell the vehicles for scrap metal.They use that same engine in many apps over the pound and if there was a flaw this big VM would have been forced to close it's doors by now.

Gotta start eliminating stuff one by one the correct way.Ever hear of K.I.S.S ? You have more then one part of the engine that can introduce combustion gasses in the system besides the head gasket and many leak points that will never show a leak.Go out and buy some UV dye that can mix with your fuel,add it to the tank(before fill up) and add enough to be visible under a UV light ,and run for 50-100 miles and break out the yellow glasses and UV light and check for any dye in the cooling system.


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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:03 am 
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Anyone else?

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:58 pm 
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Have you taken an accurate temperature reading with a digital gauge?
I don't trust the CRD temp gauge one bit.

It possible that the reason for no pressure in the coolant tank is that it never got up to a temperature to create pressure.
Are you using a stock thermostat or the in-line mod?

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:05 pm 
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flash7210 wrote:
Have you taken an accurate temperature reading with a digital gauge?
I don't trust the CRD temp gauge one bit.

It possible that the reason for no pressure in the coolant tank is that it never got up to a temperature to create pressure.
Are you using a stock thermostat or the in-line mod?


Stock thermo....

I will take a temperature reading with a digital guage after I get home from work.

This morning, after my 1 hour commute, there was no pressure under the cap.

I plan to pressure test the system later on this week.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:26 pm 
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I will be south of Boston next week. Want me to have a look?

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:43 pm 
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geordi wrote:
I will be south of Boston next week. Want me to have a look?


Sure... I can meet you on your way, let me know when.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:11 pm 
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An easy test if you do not have a tester would be to put the hose going out of the cap overflow into a glass of water and see if it bubbles as the jeep warms up.

I have an antique tester that works just fine for caps and the cooling system.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:02 pm 
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flman wrote:
An easy test if you do not have a tester would be to put the hose going out of the cap overflow into a glass of water and see if it bubbles as the jeep warms up.

I have an antique tester that works just fine for caps and the cooling system.


I once tried something similar to this.
Instead of using a bottle, I ran the hose up onto the windshield and filled the hose with water. The idea was that if excess pressure was in the coolant tank it would push the water out the hose and I would see it while driving.
When I drove it like this, no water got pushed out. So either the test did not work or my head gasket is ok.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:16 pm 
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TJKJ,

I just put a new STANT on, ran it through a few heat cycles and tested it. My tester showed it did not release until it got to 18 PSI. The 9 year old OEM cap released at 14 PSI.

Is there some reason to think my specific STANT cap is bad? I really do not want to replacea HG when it is not needed.

DOC

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:36 pm 
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Sounds to me that your radiator cap is good.

I think what tjkj was trying to say is that Stant may have some quality control issues.
If yours tests good then its good.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:49 am 
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Yesterday, with a new stant radiator cap, there was no pressure under the cap after a 1 h 10 minute drive..... none.

I can purchase more caps to test this variable but considering I already went through this with my other CRD's when they had HG leak problems, I don't think I will. Surely one of the brand new caps on my shelf has to be OK, not all of them could be defective.

Or are you suggesting that all 3 caps should be considered bad and procure a few more and test them just to be sure?

This vehicle has never experienced pressure under the cap since the day it was purchased no matter how long the drive or how high the temperature reached, until three weeks ago.

Last month, for the duration of 2 to 3 weeks the pressure that I felt under the cap was explosive, this observation happened immediately after driving 30 miles and then tested many more times after that on short trips, long trips, medium long trips, within a three week span, the pressure under the cap was explosive.

I also performed the one minute pressure under the cap test and it was positive for pressure under the cap, indicative that there is a HG leak.

But now, for the past 5 days the system is no longer experiencing explosive pressure under the cap, no matter how long the trip is and no matter how high the engine temp reaches.

The one minute pressure under the cap test shows no pressure escaping and there is no coolant loss.

Other LOSTKJS CRD owners have indicated that their CRD's have also never experienced pressure under the cap, same as I have.

I am wondering if the following could be happening:

1. Is the aluminum head at the beginning stages of deforming, allowing gasses to escape through the HG and then retracting back to it's original shape sealing the leak? I think of it as a pulsation during the high and low temps.

2. Could this be the beginning stages of the head warping, or head bolts stretching past the acceptable limit and remaining in that position no longer capable of clamping the head down properly, allowing coolant to pass through and deforming the HG by creating rust? My Head gaskets were very rusty when removed, we found particles of rust imbedded into the aluminum head creating craters that trashed the head.

3. Could ambient temperature be a factor?

Weak thoughts.... possibly, but what is happening here?

I know nothing about metallurgy so if someone does, then please shed some light, I would appreciate it.

Today, I will have my laser temperature gun with me and I plan to record the engine temps as requested.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:52 am 
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Maybe all of you should get the Mopar Rad cap?

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:01 am 
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flman wrote:
Maybe all of you should get the Mopar Rad cap?


I have a brand new one of those that is still in its original box, it's rated for 18lbs.... tested fine, no leaks.

We need new thoughts here....

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:13 am 
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flman wrote:
An easy test if you do not have a tester would be to put the hose going out of the cap overflow into a glass of water and see if it bubbles as the jeep warms up.


Good one, I just tried it.... No bubbles in the glass of water, idled it for 10 minutes. I'll do it again after my long commute and the engine had some time to run under load, I plan to keep the engine running after coming to a stop never removing the cap, just dropping the hose in the glass of water and look for bubbles.

I like this radiator cap test.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:34 pm 
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racertracer wrote:
flman wrote:
An easy test if you do not have a tester would be to put the hose going out of the cap overflow into a glass of water and see if it bubbles as the jeep warms up.


Good one, I just tried it.... No bubbles in the glass of water, idled it for 10 minutes. I'll do it again after my long commute and the engine had some time to run under load, I plan to keep the engine running after coming to a stop never removing the cap, just dropping the hose in the glass of water and look for bubbles.

I like this radiator cap test.


Alright, time to put some bubble soap in a spray bottle and spray the recovery tank and look for air bubbles. With no fluid loss, it can only happen in an air pocket you would think? Maybe you have a crack or a bad weld in the bottle some where?

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:10 am 
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Ok. no pressure under the cap after my morning commute yesterday and no bubbles in the glass of water.

Engine temps recorded using the laser temperature gun.

187 deg - top of thermostat.

184 deg. - at valve cover.

158 deg. inside the coolant bottle, cap removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:59 am 
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You weren't happy when there was pressure under the cap. Now that there's no pressure and it's behaving exactly like you think it should you're still not happy. Not sure what you're looking for?

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:09 am 
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You think the problem is gone .... how did that happened? Do you know? It solved itself?

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 Post subject: Re: Pressure under the coolant cap
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:52 am 
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In all my years mechanicing, I have never encountered a head gasket leak fix itself; and I have done several hundred head gasket jobs. If indeed it is a true HG leak, it will not come and go....once it starts leaking, it will eventually only get worse as the combustion gases entering the cooling system overheats, over pressurizes, and literally boils/blows the coolant out of the system...
IMHO :roll:
Modern cooling systems are by design engineered to run under pressure, it raises the boiling point of the coolant, that is why we all have radiator caps of a certain pressure rating.
If your problem disappeared, I would be inclined to look elsewhere... :shock:

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