Looking into this strange "gem"

Sniperx · **Joined:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:09 am **Posts:** 3

I ran into one of these near Santa Barbara, CA last weekend and was a little surprised when I heard a diesel ticking over in a modern SWB 4x4...made by a US car company. I was slightly more shocked to hear how new it was and that it wasn't a conversion.

I had 2 diesels in my days, both in Japan. A Mitsubishi Pajero SWB (short Montero) 2800 and a monster BJ74 LandCruiser that was a 4x4 custom shops demo vehicle. It had everything from a turbo straight 6 to front and rear lockers. I always liked my diesels and they're longevity/reliability.

So, I'm confronted with this funky thing in front of me.

To top it off...my wifes car got whacked pretty good not 2 days before.....the gods at work here?

So what I'm getting at is this...

What the heck are these things (obviously I know a little about them, engine name, model name, etc)? Are they reliable? WHat possible/probable nightmares am I looking at for this engine/vintage? What about parts availability and interchangeability? A new cylinder head for an Austin Taxi does me no good locating one in the US. Anyone known problems...for example the Toyota Prado was known to warp and crack heads, the 1HZ motor was known to have bad BEBs from the factory? I have read on the TC recall and ECU neutering. I also went through the NOOB thread, which is good for bringing a vehicle up to spec, but not very useful as a buyers guide or word to the wise type of thing.

I know its tough to put the fanboy inside us all aside and give sound advice, but do your best. I have the same problem when it comes to aircooled VWs.

Thanks.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:27 pm

I can see you like diesels, so I'd say go for it! It is not even close as an offroader as your Pajero and LandCruiser, but still has a bit of jeep pedigree in it, and in 4WD the heavy diesel engine helps. Tuned with GDE, it is also reasonably fast, I think there are few members here that have a stage 2 turbo (from GDE) and they made 0-60 in under 6 or 7 seconds, not bad for a diesel Jeep...

Reliability wise, I wouldn't say it is more expensive than any other diesel. It is maybe a bit more finicky, but nothing too bad, at least I can live with it. The engine I believe has a pretty robust design, side some exceptions we hear on this forum. As a plus I would note a relatively well designed cooling system (side of the thermostat that apparently goes bad after about 60k miles and it is about $150-200), decent torque for the engine size, decent towing capacity for the size of the Liberty, robust suspension and drive train. Fuel economy is not great, usually city 20-25 and highway 25-30some, depending on how fast you drive.

The bads: In my opinion the EGR quantity for US market is way too much for this engine, so first step is to somehow disable it. The soot (this is my supposition) contaminates the oil and trashes the rockers. Some parts may be harder to find, but the usual maintenance ones are not an issue. IDparts.com and moparpartsamerica.com have almost everything. The stock viscous apparently goes bad causing engine to overheat when hot outside (solution Hayden viscous or e-fan conversion), stock glow plugs are ceramic, which can damage the engine when they crack (common problem for any diesel with ceramics) and the solution is metallic glow plugs which are not heating as much as the ceramics, so there may be some starting issues when extremely cold. The fuel lines from the tank are cheap chrysler re-use from the gasoline engines, there is no in-tank pump and the fuel pump from the engine pulls the fuel through, and those quick connect can suck air causing rough engine operation. Solutions are either in tank pumps, in-line pumps or replacing the plastic fittings from the tank. Motor mounts don't last too long either, mine were good at 120+ miles, but others had issues with them at 60+k. Stock torque converter is pretty lame, causing shudder when the engine is tuned, solution is SunCoast or "Euro" torque converter. If you add all those mods, you get probably close to 3-5k more than what you pay for a stock one, if you like the CRD, you won't care, but if you just want a diesel car, there may be some out there that won't require that much modification.

I'm sure others would add more, bottomline is that so far there is no issue that the forum hasn't found a fix for yet, I one would buy a CRD again if I would need another car. But for a regular driver, that is not a jeep and a diesel enthusiast, there are better alternatives.

Sniperx · **Joined:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:09 am **Posts:** 3

Thanks for the input.

I'm looking for the magic bullet, reliability, longevity, and mileage. I WAS looking CNG, but the home compressors are tough to find and very costly. Diesel is the other route. However, with MPG in the low 30s is not really better than a comparable passenger vehicle combined with a higher fuel cost, its a no win there. I don't REALLY need another adventure vehicle...I have a 67 VW Bus with a full camping kit and tuned 2L motor...as well as 2 batteries, freon fridge, and filtered water. I don't know if this would fill a niche in m stable then. The only real plus this could have in my situation is longevity. Ths may not be a fit for my needs after all....maybe I'll just finish the M715/4BT swap and let her drive that monster around..... :twisted:

Input, need more input!

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:22 pm

Sniperx wrote:

Thanks for the input.

I'm looking for the magic bullet, reliability, longevity, and mileage. I WAS looking CNG, but the home compressors are tough to find and very costly. Diesel is the other route. However, with MPG in the low 30s is not really better than a comparable passenger vehicle combined with a higher fuel cost, its a no win there. I don't REALLY need another adventure vehicle...I have a 67 VW Bus with a full camping kit and tuned 2L motor...as well as 2 batteries, freon fridge, and filtered water. I don't know if this would fill a niche in m stable then. The only real plus this could have in my situation is longevity. Ths may not be a fit for my needs after all....maybe I'll just finish the M715/4BT swap and let her drive that monster around..... :twisted:

Input, need more input!

woo-hoo, the military gladiator, I like that! Tough axles that's for sure, especially the full float rear. 4bt or a mercedes OM617/602/606, preferably last, you may also find one of those for cheap and especially 606 has a pretty good torque... The only thing with liberty is that has more comfort that m715, I'd take the 715 in a heart bit though, lol. Good luck with the project!

If you want reliability, longevity and good mileage, look for a TDI Jeta/Golf/Bug up to 2006, if you dont care about 4wd.

Sniperx · **Joined:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:09 am **Posts:** 3

Yeah, the VW diesel is on the list for a commuter.

The 715 is a longer project...we just swapped the rear for newer, more standard version, of the Dana 70. The old one had hideous gearing and required very special parts. Next up is the 4BT and an NV4500. We already have the motor out of a bread truck...came with the better injector pump, bigger turbo, and huge cooler also.

Getting too hot to wrench on the thing in the daytime though.

dgeist · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:51 pm

I, for one, wasn't even a "jeep person" before I got the CRD. I mostly wanted something I could run Biodiesel in. My wife happened upon a story about the KJ in 2005 and I started looking. I probably would be in a TDI today otherwise. That said, I've absolutely loved this jeep. It does anything I want, is reasonably efficient doing it, has plenty of space but isn't "big" like a lot of road-going SUV boats out there. Being able to tow several thousand pounds of construction materials from the home store on occasion or being able to rent a tow-behind wood chipper without a second thought is really nice too.

Does it have its problems? Yes, but most (all) of them are fairly well known, and as long as you're not afraid of it, there's nothing that can't be fixed, either on a periodic basis or permanently by bypassing some of the silly factory design decisions. As long as your wife is a good sport and doesn't mind a little adventure on occasion (i.e. this isn't going to commute like a Camry), then I say go for it.

Dan

mass-hole · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:59 pm

dgeist wrote:

I, for one, wasn't even a "jeep person" before I got the CRD. I mostly wanted something I could run Biodiesel in. My wife happened upon a story about the KJ in 2005 and I started looking. I probably would be in a TDI today otherwise. That said, I've absolutely loved this jeep. It does anything I want, is reasonably efficient doing it, has plenty of space but isn't "big" like a lot of road-going SUV boats out there. Being able to tow several thousand pounds of construction materials from the home store on occasion or being able to rent a tow-behind wood chipper without a second thought is really nice too.

Does it have its problems? Yes, but most (all) of them are fairly well known, and as long as you're not afraid of it, there's nothing that can't be fixed, either on a periodic basis or permanently by bypassing some of the silly factory design decisions. As long as your wife is a good sport and doesn't mind a little adventure on occasion (i.e. this isn't going to commute like a Camry), then I say go for it.

Dan

This post sums up my feelings pretty nicely. I would have never looked at a jeep, at least not a liberty, until I found out about the CRD. I have only had mine since August and it is fairly low miles, but I have been extremely happy day to day with this thing. I just went and picked up a load of 3 cu yards of mulch no problem. I towed 2 - 1.2ton pallets of wood pellets this winter. I can throw my two dogs in the back without an issue etc etc. You can make it a very reliable vehicle for under $500; EGR block plate($20), New fuel filter head(~$120), Intake hoses if they are bad(~$250), and a lift pump($100) should pretty much cover most of the issues you see around here. Getting a tune is a bonus and I have seen as high as 36mpg on the highway with mine, although I think my MPG gauge reads a few MPG's high.

The other thing that never ceases to amaze me is the turning circle on this thing. I can maneuver into almost any spot I want in one try. It makes my Legacy look silly.

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:34 pm

What dgeist and mass-hole said. Same story here.

I'll add that I've been quite pleased with its off road performance. I'm not an off roader per se, but I take it out several times a year in wild places from WY, UT, NM and AZ. Tore up a set of Michelin LTX LT235's in February on a desert mountain "road" yet it's always gotten me out of the outback and back to civilization.

barley00 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:57 am

I am in the same camp as the three above me (dgeist, mass hole, and AZ). In fact I had a tdi golf and it was much less reliable than my crd. I have had no problems whatsoever with my crd that one wouldn't expect in any other car that's quickly approaching 10 years old. In fact I'm getting mine back today or tomorrow after a month and a half without it due to a kiss with a telephone pole. It'll look like a new car. I've off roaded with it along with rovers and they were in awe of its capability.

Looking into this strange "gem"

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