I love my diesels, and hate some of the devices that are mandated for them, but I forsee increased scrutiny in this area. Protect yourselves people (and businesses). If my EGR accidentally rusts off, I'm not going to brag about it in my signature. (ORM is bad enough )



http://www.techtimes.com/articles/9868/ ... alists.htm

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#1 2006 Silver CRD Limited, flipped spare tire, ASFIR skids, GDE TCM & Ecotune, blue SAMCOs, 5V glow plugs, Rotella T6, intank fuel pump, Gen2 fuel head, new crank sensor, JBA 2.5 in silver package, Provent and ARB bumper
#2 2006 Metallic Green Limited; currently DOA
#3 2005 Silver project; currently not running...don't judge me

As I agree that modifying a truck to just produce a lot of smoke is stupid, since in essence this is just unburned fuel, leading to less mileage efficiency, this particular article is just a nonsense political statement with absolutely no other value other than informing what we already know, that is illegal to remove any epa devices such as egr and cat converters, which has been true many, many years ago and is nothing new. All that can be done by epa is to mandate nox checks and checking the presence of epa mandated devices on a car, which won't prevent the owner to remove/disable them right after. Some European countries have some dedicated squads that randomly check various cars on the road for nox, and in case somebody runs on biodiesel, will pass with flying colors, without any of those devices. Bottom line, it's as useless as the idiotic gun control that is proven to be ineffective, whoever decides to not obey the law will do it regardless...

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

I would really like to see a comparison of vehicles with and without emission controls and the total output of the bad stuff that the EPA doesnt like. I would love to know if a well tuned vehicle with no EGR, DPF, etc(maybe just a CAT) would produce less overall emissions do to lower fuel consumption than the equivalent vehicle with all of the equipment strapped on.

And i dont mean on a 1980's IDI diesel, i mean on a modern diesel with modern injection(highly tuneble) and what not.

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2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs

Or in other words comparing a GDE tuned CRD with a stock one. Or a stock CRD with no egr running bio vs a regular stock. EPA is a scam agency meant to make people like Al Gore rich. If they would have no opposition we would be driving full solar panel cars just to power our in-dash clock. If they'd really care about not polluting, they'll invest those wasted money in all those useless carb measures into finding really non-polluting solutions, and I do not mean electric batteries a la prius that pollute more than 5 Hummers to make them. But hey, who's gonna buy all that oil then...

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

All that stuff is to reduce NOX which turbo diesels naturally produce more of then gas engines,alot more.

Everyone thought the same when all the EGR,cats,and such started appearing on gas engines 20+ years ago,no look your getting 400hp all the up to over 600hp on naturally aspirated gas engines these days that actually don't do to bad for mpg's while producing little to no bad exhaust gasses.

I'm with you on everything short of the belief you seem to hold that biodiesel produces less NOx than dino.

Biodiesel creates significantly less particulate matter (37% less), CO (41% less) and hydrocarbons (69% less) but more (about 7% more) NOx than dino.

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2006 CRD Limited Dk Khaki
InMotion S-II, GDE TCM, Cummins Lift Pump, Mishimoto CAC hoses
Cooper Discoverer ATP LT245/75, Rola roof basket, JCR S3 sliders
OME lift+JBA UCA's, custom front hitch receiver, Mile Marker winch
All J Products rear cargo shelf
Sips biodiesel as if it were 12 y/o Scotch

The diesels that smelled, leaked, smoked and loped when started cold, belched smoke like a freight train when loaded down, got better fuel economy and lasted forever compared to today's engines. Have a v10 air cooled duetz diesel engine built back in the 70s. Run it every day all day and hasn't been rebuilt yet.

Maybe we Shoulda left the hole in the ozone open to let all these greenhouse gasses out?

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05 Liberty Limited CRD, converted to KPA 2863 ball bearing and billet turbo, 50hp injectorsl, complete egr delete, cooling fan delete, weeks intake kit, cummins in tank lift pump, ARP studs, 3" turbo back exhaust, samcos, etecno plugs, GDE trans tune, custom GDE engine tune.

EPA is a stupid asinine agency!!! Look at is objectively, they force manufactures to install all the so called pollution equipment on an engine just to make it produce less NOx, CO2, hydrocarbons, etc... yet it burns almost twice as much fuel due to the inefficiency of its combustion process with all these ad-dons. This makes the engine over it's lifetime produce twice the pollution. So who is the winner here; the person paying for the fuel, or the the atmosphere we breath every day, I think both are losers in a no-win situation. The sooner everyone realizes it is all a shell game the better!!!!
Want to know more, ask me about how the government is killing our coal fired generating industry with all their stupid asinine regulations which make absolutely no sense at all, and you the rate payer in the end will pay for it with extremely high electric rates!!! We are taking good efficient power plants and adding so much environmental pollution equipment that it takes twice as much fuel to produce the same amount load we did 20 years ago. Who is better off for it, certainly not the industry, certainly not the consumer, certainly not the atmosphere!

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

You have no idea what your talking about.The EPA is not killing mpg's it's all the techno gizmo's(heat crap,AC,power seats,blue tooth) you all "need" and the added safety crap(TPMS,airbags,and all that crap) that is killing mpg's.

No not so much the Jeep since it only has an EGR. I want to see the DPF and UREA also entered into the equation because these are the things you hear about causing all the problems now. It would be great to see the emissions of a stock vehicle tuned for MPG's with all of that stuff, vs the same vehicle retuned without the stuff.

My cousin just bought a 2012 Dmax about 6 months ago with only 20,000 miles. He already had to have the DPF completely replaced. The truck was in limp mode for a month. Luckily it was under warranty. My other cousin has an 07 6.7 cummins, same thing, the whole truck went to limp mode because of the DPF.

I read an article the other day comparing the 5.9 Cummins in an '06 truck and the 6.7 cummins in an 07 truck. Despite being rated for less power, the 5.9 made more in a truck on 37" tires, 20" wheels and a lift. They said it was the DPF EGR etc.

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2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs

Epa is a scam overall, even though some things they implemented, such as cat, are not bad. What's the deal with all this carbon credit? You may pollute if you pay... Clear scam. My 82 300sd with almost 170k, gets 30+mpg, 3 liter 5 cyl turbo diesel, heavier than the crd, while with the crd on the same home-work-home route I get 25 with ecotune, detuned is easy 2-3 mpg worse. And that old lady has towards 3k rpm on same speed when jeep has 2k. All this new "technology" is on many aspects welcomed, but in fuel mileage plain sucks. Take tdi from VW. Older models without the diesel particulate and ureea bs get constantly 2-5 mpg better, both stock. Why? Not trying to argue at all, I'm just frustrated that in the name of getting greener and greener, we end up polluting more and shove more money into the fat pockets of this scam geniuses, since we use more fuel, that also pollutes to have it refined and pick up the bill for all this epa mumbo jumbo that breaks up. Not to mention the "green" prius with all those polluting batteries... Lol, sorry tj, it's honestly nothing personal, just venting some steam that's not addressed to you at all.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

LOL, firing up the DPF for a regen does not burn any fuel?

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2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Proudly supporting CRD vendors, and their development of quality parts and accessories.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

No, it runs on carbon credits you buy from EPA . Nowadays, I bet they'd fine you for taking a leak on your backyard... or making you pay some sort of taxes, they became way too hungry.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

Correct, nox is greater for biodiesel, I did not know that. But researching online, I ended up finding this documents:

http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-basic ... f?sfvrsn=4

http://esw.caltech.edu/biodiesel/biodiesel_research.doc

http://www.biofuels.coop/pdfs/9_emissions.pdf

There is certainly a great benefit in reducing pollution with running biodiesel, it seems that the combined pollution for diesels with B100 would be way less than a hybrid's, excluding batteries. Also, i found out that the higher NOx in biodiesel can be relatively easy countered by some a-la-EPA devices that currently cannot be used due to the existing sulfur in regular diesel.

Also, what I didn't know, due to the fact this is recently new information, at least for me, it costs more oil to make diesel than to make gasoline, so the higher fuel economy of diesels is usually voided by higher oil quantities required to make the diesel. Granted, newer gasoline has ethanol in it and no lead, which makes it pollute less than 20 years ago, and diesel has less sulphur, less waxes, which makes it harder to refine/produce.

The issue with all those EPA mandated devices is that overall they decrease the efficiency of an engine, ending up in more fuel consumption, and those devices are also very unreliable. If EPA would start mandating a 200k miles warranty for those devices, or at least 100k (I think right now they are covered by 75k?), I am sure things would improve regarding reliability. But the best alternative would be subsidizing biodiesel and allowing tax credits for voluntary installation of nox reduction devices on diesels running biodiesel. Better than sponsoring most of it's idiotic programs.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

I blame McDonalds, KFC, Burger King et. al. We're getting heavier as a population. That's killing mpg's!

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Share your ideas freely at https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertydiesels/

Lol, but instead of educationg population to eat less and more healthy, EPA will probably mandate us to stick a cat in our arses to reduce our carbon footprint... we need to sleep for humanity!

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

Well, not to quibble, but 1968 was a bit more than 20 years ago, my friend. 1967 was the last year "all that stuff" wasn't bolted on. The first pieces of the puzzle were crankcase vents to the intake and an air pump to add air to the exhaust stream, both to clean up unburned hydrocarbons in 1968. We no longer have the air pump, that job is done by catalysts and more precise fuel metering. But there are tons of research data on how much pollution vehicles put out with and without the "stuff." Just because YOU, @mass-hole, haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it only means you haven't looked for it ('cause it isn't prone to walk around whacking people on the head).

If you want to know what air pollution could be like, spend a week in Beijing. Los Angeles used to be like that. Only in Beijing it is mostly due to burning coal, whereas in LA it used to be due to automobile exhausts.

I wasnt saying they didn't exist. I was legitimately saying I would like to see a comparison to understand the effects of the emissions equipment and how it compares to an identical vehicle without the equipment, accounting for the decrease in MPG's, added weight, etc etc. There is a lot of anger being thrown around this thread at the EPA without much supporting evidence other than "my 1977 diesel whatever gets better mpgs than this modern crap." That doesn't tell me much.

To those that hate the EPA, yes, I understand the frustration of the emissions equipment. I don't want EGR either. As I said in a previous post, two of my cousins have had very annoying and expensive repairs done on their modern diesel trucks due to emissions equipment failures.

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2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs

This makes me wonder, if running only B100 in our CRD's relatively "new" generation of diesel engines, adding a more efficient cat in the mufflers, would it make a big difference? From what I have been reading recently it seems it would, but I do not know the reliability of those modifications. I am pretty sure that a computer wiz like Keith can come op with a tune made up specifically for fuel economy and reduced NOx. Right now the biggest issue I see with biodiesel is availability, as you can probably find biodiesel in a 50 mile radius of most urbanized areas, it still makes it hard to fill up conveniently due to less availability versus regular diesel.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

I doubt there is a real study that gets the engine x, strips out all EPA mandated accessories, reprograms the ECU to work efficiently without those, then makes a comparison. Usually after a new imposed pollution regulation, there is a lot of re-engineering involved, which can lead to a totally new redesigned engine. Plus, I really believe there is not a heck of a lot difference, and those studies may in fact prove a too big cost to benefits ratios, this could defeat the purpose of such a regulation. I am personally all for being non-polluting, but in reaching the non polluting state, there should be a lot more common sense involved and way better choices. Who wants an EGR that breaks every 20-40K miles and clogs the engine with soot, leading to expensive repairs? A better choice would be regulating a more available biodiesel, more efficient and reliable cats and maybe find a better formula to the biodiesel. Europeans were sold in early 2000 to buy new generation diesels because they reduce the carbon footprint (which leads to the Oh My God global warming, we're all gonna fry and die drama - which is a pure scam btw, millions of years ago, when there was no human pollution as we know and when the dinosaurs were ruling the earth, the carbon footprint was way bigger than today and the earth was way greener, so as the carbon footprint can create indeed climate changes, there is nothing wrong with that, just pure scare tactics to make people buy solar panels or buy carbon credits), recently it was found out that, as the carbon footprint is reduced indeed for newer diesels, almost everything else is way worse than gasoline pollution. This is how all the "studies" are made, to serve a specific interest group, and this is the reason I usually do not trust any EPA research, or any government "science", the data is manipulated to serve those at power while, purposely or not, ignoring other details.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.