PML Diff Cover/Deep Tranny Pan

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat May 20, 2006 10:31 pm

I'll be 61 this summer.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat May 20, 2006 10:35 pm

RFCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

Ripster wrote:

Front skid comes off easy, just loosen the back ones, take out the front and it slides right out, not a problem.

I may do this before I leave for MI and I was wondering do I need a pump for the bottle of gear oil or can I get the bottle up high enough to squirt the stuff in there without any problem?

When I did the front diff, the 1qt round squeeze bottle is just small enough to force up into a slot between frame pieces. It was a stinker to do this way. I would have much preferred a barrel pump and hose. Filling the transfer case is actually worse, ended up wearing some of that stuff. BTW the transfer case oil was nasty (starting to darken and visible metal deposit swirlies) with just 12,500 miles, definately recommend changing early.

I had a pump that fit the 1 qt bottles and I can't find the the thing, guess I'll see if Autozone does.

I guess I need to look and see what the transfer case takes, if possible I auto tranny fluid then I will use the Mobil 1 tranny fluid. But I would not think ours would be in too bad a shape only been in 4wd maybe 100 miles if that much, but I guess the stuff is always being used anyway for the portion that is spinning.

I also ran mine in fulltime 4WD on a lot of wet & snowy roads. T-case takes 2 qts of ATF+4 which is a full synthetic. I found it bottled by Valvoline, got it at Advance (also saw some on the shelf at NAPA). Had to use a flextube funnel to get it in the hole, just plain awkward laying on a creeper. My neck is still stiff and I'm guessing that I'm 2/3 your age. :lol:

Geez, didn't know you were THAT old! :lol:

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat May 20, 2006 10:59 pm

retmil46 wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

Ripster wrote:

Front skid comes off easy, just loosen the back ones, take out the front and it slides right out, not a problem.

I may do this before I leave for MI and I was wondering do I need a pump for the bottle of gear oil or can I get the bottle up high enough to squirt the stuff in there without any problem?

When I did the front diff, the 1qt round squeeze bottle is just small enough to force up into a slot between frame pieces. It was a stinker to do this way. I would have much preferred a barrel pump and hose. Filling the transfer case is actually worse, ended up wearing some of that stuff. BTW the transfer case oil was nasty (starting to darken and visible metal deposit swirlies) with just 12,500 miles, definately recommend changing early.

I had a pump that fit the 1 qt bottles and I can't find the the thing, guess I'll see if Autozone does.

I guess I need to look and see what the transfer case takes, if possible I auto tranny fluid then I will use the Mobil 1 tranny fluid. But I would not think ours would be in too bad a shape only been in 4wd maybe 100 miles if that much, but I guess the stuff is always being used anyway for the portion that is spinning.

I also ran mine in fulltime 4WD on a lot of wet & snowy roads. T-case takes 2 qts of ATF+4 which is a full synthetic. I found it bottled by Valvoline, got it at Advance (also saw some on the shelf at NAPA). Had to use a flextube funnel to get it in the hole, just plain awkward laying on a creeper. My neck is still stiff and I'm guessing that I'm 2/3 your age. :lol:

Geez, didn't know you were THAT old! :lol:

Just don't roll around on the garage floor like I used to. 20 years ago was running 15 miles/day and could do a 4:30 mile, paying the price now. Come to think of it, was probably riding a tri-cycle when you were servicing your first cars.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat May 20, 2006 11:17 pm

RFCRD wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

Ripster wrote:

Front skid comes off easy, just loosen the back ones, take out the front and it slides right out, not a problem.

I may do this before I leave for MI and I was wondering do I need a pump for the bottle of gear oil or can I get the bottle up high enough to squirt the stuff in there without any problem?

When I did the front diff, the 1qt round squeeze bottle is just small enough to force up into a slot between frame pieces. It was a stinker to do this way. I would have much preferred a barrel pump and hose. Filling the transfer case is actually worse, ended up wearing some of that stuff. BTW the transfer case oil was nasty (starting to darken and visible metal deposit swirlies) with just 12,500 miles, definately recommend changing early.

I had a pump that fit the 1 qt bottles and I can't find the the thing, guess I'll see if Autozone does.

I guess I need to look and see what the transfer case takes, if possible I auto tranny fluid then I will use the Mobil 1 tranny fluid. But I would not think ours would be in too bad a shape only been in 4wd maybe 100 miles if that much, but I guess the stuff is always being used anyway for the portion that is spinning.

I also ran mine in fulltime 4WD on a lot of wet & snowy roads. T-case takes 2 qts of ATF+4 which is a full synthetic. I found it bottled by Valvoline, got it at Advance (also saw some on the shelf at NAPA). Had to use a flextube funnel to get it in the hole, just plain awkward laying on a creeper. My neck is still stiff and I'm guessing that I'm 2/3 your age. :lol:

Geez, didn't know you were THAT old! :lol:

Just don't roll around on the garage floor like I used to. 20 years ago was running 15 miles/day and could do a 4:30 mile, paying the price now. Come to think of it, was probably riding a tri-cycle when you were servicing your first cars.

20 years ago I was riding my bicycle 20 miles a day and had very few people in NORVA that could keep pace with me after the first hour.

I was also still riding a motorcycle that would do 0>60 in about 4 1/2 seconds and top out about 155 mph.

Nowdays when the weather changes I feel like the CRD has rolled over me a couple of times.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat May 20, 2006 11:28 pm

Gawd, I'm starting to feel like the youngster of the group at 47. But I know what you mean, spend a day wrenching on vehicles and the next morning feel like week-old road kill.

Ripster · **Posted:** Sun May 21, 2006 3:02 pm

Old Navy reference your question on the size of the bolts on PML, the small ones are 1/4 and the fill plug is
3/8 have some pipe thread goop for sealing the fill plug, and if you have looked at the bolts all are hex bit.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun May 21, 2006 3:28 pm

Ripster wrote:

Old Navy reference your question on the size of the bolts on PML, the small ones are 1/4 and the fill plug is
3/8 have some pipe thread goop for sealing the fill plug, and if you have looked at the bolts all are hex bit.

Have a bag with hex wrenchs, oil, RTV, and pipe dope ready and sitting on the work bench. I should have said I just needed to know metric or SAE, but I will find out Tuesday when the covers arrive.

I'm starting to chomp at the bit to head out, need to have some vacation time from wife, daughter and grandson. Well mostly wife & daughter. :roll:

Ripster · **Posted:** Sun May 21, 2006 3:55 pm

True American made SAE.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Sun May 21, 2006 11:22 pm

I don't mean to step on toes but am I the only one who doesn't see the value of this cover? $250 for a diff cover so you can have a drain plug and add an extra 3/4 qt of fluid!! I could see $50 but nobody works for free. I guess what I'm sayin is your gonna have to try harder to sell me on it. Why not just drill and tap a pipe plug in the diff housing bottom?? You can even get a magnetized plug. For $250 you could pay someone to do it. Hell, I'd do it for $250!!

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun May 21, 2006 11:55 pm

onthehunt wrote:

I don't mean to step on toes but am I the only one who doesn't see the value of this cover? $250 for a diff cover so you can have a drain plug and add an extra 3/4 qt of fluid!! I could see $50 but nobody works for free. I guess what I'm sayin is your gonna have to try harder to sell me on it. Why not just drill and tap a pipe plug in the diff housing bottom?? You can even get a magnetized plug. For $250 you could pay someone to do it. Hell, I'd do it for $250!!

You're not stepping on any toes, it's a legitimate concern. I went with the least expensive cover, natural cast aluminum for $175. There are several advantages to this style cover besides adding a drain and extra fluid capacity. The drain is on a flat bottom, the fill is from the side (unobstructed), you loose the troublesome rubber fill plug, cast aluminum & fins give extra cooling. Was reading in a old thread that this axle tends to run hot and the added torque of the CRD compounds this heat, thus the high frequency of service required. Personally felt it was a desirable upgrade mod.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 12:25 am

Gotta finish getting my mother's '92 Mustang convertible roadworthy first. New exhaust system, new O2 sensors, new front struts, front end alignment, etc, etc, etc. :roll:

Ripster · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 6:52 am

Everyone looks at value or modifications in their own view of expenses. Not very many
choices out there, I personally think it is very well done, don't want to cobble up the thin
one on there, don't have the tools, and when I add something to a vehicle I only want
to visit it once, don't have the time to continue to adjust something. There will be mods
others do that I will not because I don't think it is worth the money, but that does not mean
it is not well done. After being in business there is a cost to keep everything running, employee
benefits, etc, so while it may be on the high end, it is a good product for what I was looking
for. My frustration level is high when it comes to not making the cover right in the first place.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 7:43 pm

I thought the diff cover was top-rate work also. I just questioned the need of it other than easy oil changes and extra oil capacity.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 10:22 pm

onthehunt wrote:

I thought the diff cover was top-rate work also. I just questioned the need of it other than easy oil changes and extra oil capacity.

I question why we are told to change the diff fluid so often. When did I last change the diff flud in my Chevy pickup? Let me see, how about never. 110K not an issue, even asked the dealer on the last service. Told me to keep the $ in my jeans and go home. Does Chevy use a better axle under a 1500 pickup?

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 1:04 am

I will change the fluid one time maybe twice if I still have it at 100,000 miles. Once at 12,000 just to get the machining and break in flakes out and that should be it. Just fill with a syn lube and forget it. 12,000 mile service intervals are the most absurd thing I've ever heard of. Dealerships must love all those schedule "B"people. We run 500,000 miles on our trucks here before changing the fluid and we have no problems. Our truck diffs take 16qts to fill. Jeep holds 1 or 2 qts?? of oil. Chrysler has always been this way. Check out the trans service intervals on "B" Just use some common sense about all of this. If you beat the snot out of it, swim it or overheat it, change the darn fluid!! Otherwise your just wasting your time/money and maybe prolonging the death of an inferior made part that's going to break anyway. I do believe in changing all the fluids once- after break in- in everything.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 6:39 am

onthehunt wrote:

I will change the fluid one time maybe twice if I still have it at 100,000 miles. Once at 12,000 just to get the machining and break in flakes out and that should be it. Just fill with a syn lube and forget it. 12,000 mile service intervals are the most absurd thing I've ever heard of. Dealerships must love all those schedule "B"people. We run 500,000 miles on our trucks here before changing the fluid and we have no problems. Our truck diffs take 16qts to fill. Jeep holds 1 or 2 qts?? of oil. Chrysler has always been this way. Check out the trans service intervals on "B" Just use some common sense about all of this. If you beat the snot out of it, swim it or overheat it, change the darn fluid!! Otherwise your just wasting your time/money and maybe prolonging the death of an inferior made part that's going to break anyway. I do believe in changing all the fluids once- after break in- in everything.

I Usually did a road coach every 2 years (@150K), only ever rebuilt one due to wearout but it was @ 1.5 mil miles. Was more likely to loose a tooth from foreward to reverse shifting with an auto trans than wear them out. I chose to folllow the Rockwell's 2yr service recommondation becaues as HP increased, many owners compensated with stepped-up ratios to stretch the fuel mileage causing a statistically high/unacceptable rate of failures. Later they spec'd a bigger diff to handle the tourque. The Jeep differential assy just looks small for the torque going to it. Wonder if that has anything to do with it? Heard this axle gets pretty hot on a long fast run, waiting for some hot weather to check it. The extra fluid and cooling of the PML cover should help this.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 3:13 pm

The rear end used in the Jeep is noted for leaking plugs and running hot, with regular heavy towing failing rather often. With annual service made easy with the fill & drain plugs along with the more regular service the life of the rear differential should last almost forever even with heavy towing, which seems to be one of the main reasons for some to buy the CRD Liberty.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 7:03 pm

The plugs leave something to be desired I agree but the diff problems are another thing. They are known for overheating and failing with heavy towing?? Is this something you heard about by word of mouth or is it an actual documented problem like the 90's minivans trans.?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 8:38 pm

Both word of mouth and observation. The problem is when this differential was designed there were no high torque diesel engine hooked up to it and they were not towing much either.

I guess it doesn't help to have farmers around here that never understood that 1/2 ton was only 1000 lbs, or that a Hemi in a 1/2 ton PU wasn't really designed to tow a 10,000+ lb trailer. However I have seen both done on a regular basis and that may be more the cause of the bad reputation then actual real problem. Just like the OM says to run 75w-140 in the CRD if towing, otherwise use the 75w-90 gear oil, how many here have the 75w-140 oil and tow regular. I would assume the models with trailor tow package has the 75w-140, but you know what assume spells.

Ripster · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 9:20 pm

Using AmsOil Sever Gear 75-90 so for what I tow occasionally I am good to go.

PML Diff Cover/Deep Tranny Pan

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