Rocker change gone bad

greiswig · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:44 pm

As was pointed out to me by a former forum member, the size of the pump pulley is such that even with 3 plungers, it will time right against the injection pulses with an extra pulse to replenish the rail supply. From one piece of research he pointed me to, it looked like there were some advantages to having the injections ride the peak of the pressure wave in the rail, but it wasn't clear how much one really gained by doing so.

But I suspect the real answer is ...why not? You'll sleep better without that nagging thought in your head of whether it was done by the book or not.

Hexus · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:50 pm

mecne wrote:

One more question , I have the air bleed from the filter head , is there a way to bleed the air from the fuel rail?

Mike

The best way is to install an inline lift pump, I know the CRD's I've put back together that have the lift pump lose the hollow "knocking" sound from the air working it's way out of the cylinders. The best way I've found, outside of that, is to loosen the very front fitting on the fuel rail while I manually pump the primer in the fuel pump, then tigthen it after fuel weeps out for a bit.

Then pump, and pump, and pump, and pump some more.

Be ready for it to sound different, small amounts of air you won't be able to get out are going to make it sound funny when it's running, it's normal.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:09 pm

A couple tips and then some knowledge for everyone:

Re-timing the fuel pump is as simple as lining up the pump timing mark with the mark on the inner cover at about the 8 o'clock position. Doesn't matter which rotation, and it doesn't matter how the pump will only line up every third engine rotation - this is normal.

Pumping the plunger on the fuel filter WILL NOT FILL THE RAIL because that is on the high pressure side of the fuel pump. If you really want to be tricky, unlock the #4 fuel line a bit from the rail, and rotate the fuel pump yourself. It will fill and push fuel out - then tighten it up and you should have vroom a lot quicker.

Now - about the timing of the fuel pump. The rail is ALWAYS full of fuel, what you are doing is managing the pressure waves with the fuel pump timing. This is a 4 cylinder engine, so how can the fuel pump possibly match with only a 3-lobed pump? Its a little thing called MATH.

If you take the size of the camshaft pulleys as "1" then the crankshaft is "1/2" and spins 2 revolutions for every ONE of the camshaft. That is how it can be a 4-cycle engine, and why it takes TWO revolutions to return to 90 ATDC on #1... On the intake stroke.

So if the cams are "1" and the crank is "1/2" and running twice as fast... The fuel pump is "2/3" and is running 33% faster - So that each and every time one of the cylinders opens that pressure drain (the injector) from the rail, the lobe of the pump could be lined up perfectly to push fuel and maintain the rail pressure as almost static and smooth.

If the fuel pump isn't lined up, the rail pressure will plummet when the injector opens, then the fuel pump will be pushing against a solid wall with the injector closed and the rail pressure will spike. As the rail pressure drops, the spray pattern from the injector will be uneven (think about shutting off a hose rather than letting go of the spray trigger) where the spray should be mostly constant with the timing properly done.

You don't want the pressure in the rail to spike and droop, that puts added stresses on the fuel pump and just generally makes the engine unhappy and louder. Sure, it might still run... But isn't a precisely running and smooth engine better?

mecne · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:39 pm

I got the pump lined up and timed with my marks.

Hexus wrote:

The best way I've found, outside of that, is to loosen the very front fitting on the fuel rail while I manually pump the primer in the fuel pump, then tigthen it after fuel weeps out for a bit.

Then pump, and pump, and pump, and pump some more.

Be ready for it to sound different, small amounts of air you won't be able to get out are going to make it sound funny when it's running, it's normal.

Pump the primer on the fuel filter ?

geordi wrote:

Pumping the plunger on the fuel filter WILL NOT FILL THE RAIL because that is on the high pressure side of the fuel pump. If you really want to be tricky, unlock the #4 fuel line a bit from the rail, and rotate the fuel pump yourself. It will fill and push fuel out - then tighten it up and you should have vroom a lot quicker.

I have it all back together now .
Will rotating the engine with #4 rail fitting open do the same thing?
Or do I crank it over a few times with #4 loose then tighten it up ?

Thanks Again for all the help.

Mike

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:21 pm

Rotating the engine is probably harder than it needs to be to just fill the rail, plenty of people have done it with the starter and the #4 loose... I just do it before putting the timing belt on b/c it is easier to rotate the fuel pump by itself.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:01 am

Keith at GDE strongly suggests following factory procedure and timing the pump.

DOC

mecne · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:04 am

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!
:JEEPIN:

Took a bit to get it started .. battery I had is crap , turned it over a bunch of times had the #4 injector rail connecter loose and filled the rail with fuel .. then the battery died. Popped one of my VW TDI batteries in it and fired up after 3 o 4 tries
Trying to post up a video but my phone is acting up .

Went for a 30 - 40 minute drive to warm it up and get things moving again and it drives awesome. I only ever knew it as no/low power and blowing black smoke ..

Thanks Again for the help everyone ..
Mike

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:46 am

Quote:

I have it marked from when I took it apart .
How do you do you Timing belt tension and not have it move? I did it twice and it moves when the slack is taken up.

Fiddled with belt install until when tension was applied the marks lined up. Not hard just annoying.

PS glad to hear it's alive.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:12 am

papaindigo wrote:

Quote:

I have it marked from when I took it apart .
How do you do you Timing belt tension and not have it move? I did it twice and it moves when the slack is taken up.

Fiddled with belt install until when tension was applied the marks lined up. Not hard just annoying.

THIS. I've done this on more than 35 Jeeps now, and it never gets easier - this bit is just fiddly.

mecne · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:33 pm

geordi wrote:

papaindigo wrote:

Quote:

I have it marked from when I took it apart .
How do you do you Timing belt tension and not have it move? I did it twice and it moves when the slack is taken up.

Fiddled with belt install until when tension was applied the marks lined up. Not hard just annoying.

THIS. I've done this on more than 35 Jeeps now, and it never gets easier - this bit is just fiddly.

Exactly what I did .. It took a few times to get it but worked out .
They should have pinned it like the VW TDI IP is when doing the timing belt.

Not sure if this will work , but here is a link to a video of it running.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+MikeEvansmecne/albums/6079957223702038209

Mike

Hexus · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:28 pm

Sounds good, did you leave the fan out entirely? It appears so.

rancherman · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:53 pm

Ok, I'm a dumass:
edit: found a cutaway of a cp3
http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/tech/ ... iagram.jpg

It appears the 3 plungers are building pressure at the same time. I was wrong to assume the 3 lobes were sequential. my bad.

mecne · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:15 pm

Hexus wrote:

Sounds good, did you leave the fan out entirely? It appears so.

Ya , after reading the post recently about the mechanical fan , I left it out .
It's getting pretty cool here , had snow a week ago .

Driving it tomorrow to get the emissions test done and will monitor the temp via the Torque Pro app .

Reset the codes before starting it up , and the only code that has popped up is
P0513 - PowerTrain Incorrect Immoblizer Key (" Immobilizer pending SAE J1930 approval)

M

mecne · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:40 am

Well it's been a week and it's running awesome .

Passed the emissions test with no problem .

I drove it the first 3 days , and then my wife took it one day ..
Half way through the day she texted me and said that it started shifting hard between 2 and 3 .

It wasn't doing this for me the two days before and I just figured she wasn't used to it as she hasn't driven an automatic in a while as both our VW's are 5 speeds.

So I took it for a drive after dinner that night and it is shifting hard between 2 and 3 , which it wasn't doing for me the few days before.
I've done a bunch of searches and have found that this is common ?
I found a procedure to reset the TCM , and it will relearn but it didn't seem to help . Maybe I didn't do this right?

Turn key to on position ( don't start)
push accelerator to the floor
turn key to off ( leave key in )
let the accelerator up slow
Wait two minutes
take key out and exit

Is there any other way to to reset it so it will re learn the shift points?
My plan is to change the Trans fluid and filters as I don't know if or when PO did it .
Should I be looking at a transgo kit to put in it while I have it apart? Will it help with the hard shift ?

Mike

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:52 am

From what I've heard, the Transgo kit may actually make it shift HARDER than it is now.

Are you sure the level is correct? These things seem to like running with a bit extra fluid in them, the first thing I usually suggest to someone having shift issues is to add a quart of juice and see if the problem resolves. I don't know why this works, but it usually does.

mecne · **Posted:** Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:50 am

geordi wrote:

From what I've heard, the Transgo kit may actually make it shift HARDER than it is now.

Are you sure the level is correct? These things seem to like running with a bit extra fluid in them, the first thing I usually suggest to someone having shift issues is to add a quart of juice and see if the problem resolves. I don't know why this works, but it usually does.

I added 1/4 of a quart/ litre of ATF+4 , and had a hard time reading the dip stick of course once the tube walls where coated from adding some.

I'll add the reminder of the bottle and see if it helps .

These things take a bunch of fluid , 2 gallon jugs + 1 Quart ?

Over filling not an issue?

It's been so long since I've driven an auto I keep putting my foot down for the clutch , and shut it off in gear all the time wondering why the key won't come out of the ignition . :banghead:

M

Rocker change gone bad

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