CRD Nightmares!

Purple_Gurl · **Joined:** Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 7

Hi there
I posted on here a few months ago about some issues I've been having with my jeep and you guys were super helpful, so first of all thanks for that!!
Now I'm hoping ya'll will be able to offer some more insight.

I've got a 2005 CRD with 131,000 on it.
About 3 weeks ago it started having some wicked shift shock, where it catches and makes a loud thunking noise, but it's only from 1st to 2nd and now 2nd to 3rd.
It also has a check engine light on that's coding up as EGR Flow. The mechanics are saying the motor is probably going into limp mode from the EGR and that the shift shock is probably the tranny, but nobody is willing to work on it in the small town I live in!
I'm about ready to just trade the darn thing off. It's been in the shop 5 times in 3 months for a mass air flow leak, a fuel filter primer housing replacement, and various hoses and sensors needing replaced.
I want to do a EGR delete on it, but I don't know if it would help or hurt at this point.
Has anyone had anything similar happen with their jeep? Or can anyone suggest a good starting point for the mechanics??

mecne · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:46 am

Purple_Gurl wrote:

Hi there
I posted on here a few months ago about some issues I've been having with my jeep and you guys were super helpful, so first of all thanks for that!!
Now I'm hoping ya'll will be able to offer some more insight.

I've got a 2005 CRD with 131,000 on it.
About 3 weeks ago it started having some wicked shift shock, where it catches and makes a loud thunking noise, but it's only from 1st to 2nd and now 2nd to 3rd.
It also has a check engine light on that's coding up as EGR Flow. The mechanics are saying the motor is probably going into limp mode from the EGR and that the shift shock is probably the tranny, but nobody is willing to work on it in the small town I live in!
I'm about ready to just trade the darn thing off. It's been in the shop 5 times in 3 months for a mass air flow leak, a fuel filter primer housing replacement, and various hoses and sensors needing replaced.
I want to do a EGR delete on it, but I don't know if it would help or hurt at this point.
Has anyone had anything similar happen with their jeep? Or can anyone suggest a good starting point for the mechanics??

Sorry to hear about your issues and hard time with the CRD .
I don't have any experience with the Tranny on these , but do know it's alot of work pulling , fixing , and put it back together .
Best to have the tranny working properly before dropping the $$ on the EGR delete .
Where do you live?
I'm sure if you wanted to get out from under it someone here would take it off yours hands , don't let the Dealership be a Stealership.

Mike

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:53 am

The KJ CRD-specific DRBIII scantool at your local DODGE-CHRYSLER-JEEP dealer would reveal a lot more drivetrain information than the generic scantools that most shops use - DRBIII scans and tests all the modules in the KJ, including the EATX Transmission Control Module - if you have not already done so, having a total scan by DCJ to pin-point any\all past\recent\current failures would be your best course of activity at this point

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:41 pm

Thoughts:
1. when was the tranny last serviced and was it done with ATF+4?
2. what's the fluid level in the transfer case, tranny, and differential?
3. weird shift issues can be related to tranny filter issues or a loose tranny valve body plate - have to drop pan to check.
4. what specific EGR code are you getting? FYI EGR can be cleaned, although most dealers just want to replace. It's possible that an EGR problem could kick you into limp mode but that should be obvious as a loss of power not a tranny shift issue.
5. could you have bad drive line "U" joints that are binding the drive line and hence the tranny shift? Have to drop the drive shaft to check as bad "U" joints are often impossible to diagnose on the vehicle.
6. as far as I know there is no KJ CRD specific scan tool. However only a DCJ or equivalent scan tool can read the codes as gmctd notes. A dealer is likely to charge ca. $100 to pull codes a good independent shop (this does not generally include parts stores) with the right scan tool will likely charge less.
7. the 545RFE automatic transmission is a very common DCJ transmission and any competent tranny shop can work on them, may even have a suitable scan tool. I think the same goes for the transfer case.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:22 pm

The DRBIII scans and analyzes most DCJ vehicles, but in the hands of a qualified service tech becomes a KJ CRD specific scantool, capable of analyzing all specific modules specific to the CRD version of the KJ, including the Front Control Module - why muddy the water with extraneous non-specific not pertinent input for someone not at all familiar with service and testing requirements, eh?

She's asking for help - none of you have specific input which will solve the problems - the DRBIII can nail it down to areas which, though seemingly non-related to the current issue, can and will produce the current symptoms - as her KJ CRD has had other recent problems, there could be logged\archived DTC's which are contributing to, or pointing to, this current series of failures.
The quickest, most efficient, most economic solution at this juncture is a DRBIII scan - generic scantools are unable to perform full system tests on the CRD KJ

A DRBIII Mobile Module can be connected to the KJ which will log error\failure\problem DTC's while she is driving, giving further live data to enable specific troubleshooting and resolution procedure

Specific modules specific to the CRD KJ, all inter-connected and communicating via the KJ intranet:

BOSCH Engine Control Module for the VM 2.8L CRD engine
EATX Transmission Control Module for the 545RTE 5-spd transmission
Anti-lock Brake System Module programmed specifically to function within the CRD intranet, clearly labeled: DIESEL ONLY
Front Control Module, sometimes known as Gateway module, which is a traffic router passing system data to and fro, including some raw sensor data from the engine and other areas

One caveat: the CRD-specific ABS Module can and has caused some generic scantools to give erroneous and erratic data, rendering any further use as functionally non-reliable

The CRD ABS module can cause similar transmission-related symptoms

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:55 pm

The problem with the "magical" DRB-III scanner... is in your first sentence: "qualified service tech"

You'd expect to find one of those at the stealership? That knows what the CRD is, and isn't just looking to steal your money / talk the owner into trading the vehicle?

How about one that when you drive in, questions what that racket is from the vehicle, and that there must be something terribly wrong with the engine! Oh, its a diesel? How'd you get that conversion? Chrysler sold them like that? Really?

Yes, I have had that conversation with someone AT A DEALER. I also had this gem:

Was towing CRD behind moving truck. This is an approved towing procedure with the transfer case in neutral. Somehow the transfer case re-engaged itself, and proceeded to incinerate the transmission. Towed CRD (on tow truck) to dealership, asked them for FULL diagnosis - This is where it is very similar to what you are asking her to do. Proceed to inform dealership that transmission is incinerated and was actively ON FIRE, minus flames, due to transfer case error / failure. Please fully check and advise.

Dealership calls back after 3 days, says "transmission is burned up and needs to be replaced." No S#it sherlock. Transfer case? "Oh, the tech moved the lever through all the gears, the transfer case is just fine"

This was a DEALER TECH.

Decided they didn't know their arse from their elbow, brought CRD to independent shop, that removed transfer case and sent it to specialist. Specialist's reply? "Whoa, this thing is munched!" Internals were completely crushed / gears broken, forks bent, various amounts of mayhem had happened within - And that shift cable and handle? MELTED OFF THE TRANSFER CASE so it wasn't connected at all.

Be my guest in trusting a dealership, you won't find me asking them if the SUN will rise tomorrow and expecting the correct answer.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:00 pm

Understood - considering, one of two problems you would have is tearing yourself away from the football game long enuff to go out with some cheap tools, spend some time guessing around the problem, and tiring of the effort, going back in, throwing yourself down on the couch to finish the game, only to encounter the second problem, which is your wife yelling to get off the couch with those dirty hands, go outside and clean yourself up before coming back in - and don't fergit that smudge behind your ear, etc...............

I would suspect Mauve-lady to have no such considerations, where any troubleshooting would require crossing some greasy palm with dollars, only to get the news that that outlay, and the next, and the next, etc, didn't fix the problem.

Even educated guesses will cost her money to eliminate and resolve

My guess is, one simple scan with the DRBIII and voila!! miss Violet would have the specific answer(s) to her dilemma, from which suitable repair could be accomplished with hopefully equitable single-outlay recompense

FYI, experience-wise, I do have, can operate, do understand, and am fairly proficient with the DBRIII, considering my handicap: only got one leg and one arm left to facilitate using the friggin' thing.......................

Purple_Gurl · **Joined:** Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 7

Thank you all for your replies, I'm sorry I haven't posted again sooner
I'm in Northern ID, and every mechanic I've called within a 25 mile radius that isn't part of a dealership doesn't wanna touch this thing. They don't know what to do with it. I've got a appointment with the local dodge dealership to look at the tranny at least. The codes don't seem to be able to tell them anything except EGR. Most of what ya'll posted is Greek to me, I'm still in the process of learning all the terminology. I'll pass it on to the mechanics. At this point it's looking like it's going to be at least $2500 to fix it, and I just want to be rid of the stupid thing before something else goes wrong!

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:32 pm

Once you've paid for the DRBIII scan, they can print the results, which resulting printout belongs to you - get it, post it here, and maybe we can help direct the service techs as to where to begin and what to ignore

If you can accurately type it in, it is not Greek to me as I have the identical DRBIII scantool and all the factory Field Service Manuals, including those specific to the CRD KJ - other forum members should also be able to help

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:06 am

For all our ranting about the chimps at the dealerships, GMCTD and I have an agreement on one thing: Given the proper diagnostic information, the members of this forum should be able to target a reply to your specific problems with a high degree of accuracy.

Getting the printout from the dealership is another matter, but if you are specific that you are directly wanting the printout from the machine and not some service writer droid to try to interpret it for you (using their ouija board and 8th-grade education)... Your chances of getting that printout are much higher.

The service writer phenomenon is really the main problem with the dealer experience. As a means of keeping the mechanics working on cars instead of talking to customers, and preventing greasy hands from getting money (that should be aimed for the greasy hair of the dealer owner) the Service Writer position was created - A customer service position requiring very limited technical knowledge... And frequently even less of an inquiring mind.

What did the service writer put down on the sheet for the CRD that I had towed in, actively bleeding transmission fluid and bearing the GREAT stench of fire and brimstone?

"transmission burned up, please check and advise"

making no mention of the transfer case or the litany of source circumstances that I was careful to spell out and expected those details to be on the form for the actual tech.

Be specific, and make them write it all down... And you may just end up with what you are wanting. Otherwise, they might just write "car broke" and call it a day on you.

Sorry none of us is closer to you, but maybe try contacting Sir Sam, he is out of Colorado somewhere, and is certainly closer than we are.

senatorjohn · **Posted:** Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:42 am

Just got my 05 CRD on the road on Thursday. Still have not fixed the P0105 fault, inlet pressure sensor signal. MIL light set. Engine is limited to 3,000 rpm, gear change will not occur on heavy throttle. Must back off on accelerator to produce gear change. Surprising lack of power. Very slow to 100 km/hr speed. Once there, will slow down at the slightest incline. At 60 km/hr or thereabouts on flat road, if you floor the accelerator, engine speed will increase by around 1,500 rpm to 3,000 with no increase in speed. Obviously massive slip somewhere. Torque converter ?
Turn off MIL with scan tool and drive off before MIL is allowed to reset by not allowing the engine to idle. The car runs like a scalded cat, great gear changes at 4,000 rpm plus. Tons of grunt. No obvious slip as when MIL is on. Really fun to drive. Provided you do not let it run at idle speed for too long, it will continue to drive great and MIL will not reset.
My conclusions- The MIL set can stuff up gear changes in a big way. So may be the case with Purple_Gurl. As stated, must get a copy of the readout, don't authorise any work, get the forum contributors to comment on the readout, enter in some further discussion on the forum, then you can make an informed decision:- otherwise the monkeys will rob you.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:40 am

Senator:
I'm still thinking P010X-etc is referring to the rail pressure sensor - GEORDY had similar problem but with different DTC, as do I - he fixed his by replacing the Fuel Pressure Sensor - I have yet to address mine, in limp mode with max rpm ~3000 - no slippage, there

The '06 KJ CRD FSM and the DODGE RAM CRD FSM have more info on rail pressure sensor failure - DODGE RAM uses same BOSCH CP3 injection system as the KJ, using same DTC's, but with expanded listing - both FSM series are downloadable from the Colorado site listed in NOOB section, top of this forum

Purple_Gurl: due to the dynamic contributive nature of any forum, always read back thru the posts beginning with your last entry for successively updated input addressing your symptoms....................

Purple_Gurl · **Joined:** Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 7

I'll see if I can find someone to do that scan and give me a printout to post on here. On the Tuesday the heater broke off from the engine, causing a belt to slip and the steering to lock up while I was driving it. That was fun... Now they're telling me that it needs the heater, water pump, and timing belt replaced (And I've been telling them to check the timing belt for months!!! )
Dealership's shop is quoting $1000 just in parts alone and they didn't even bother looking at the tranny. I'm about at my wits end with this thing! Anybody got any suggestions on how to get it fixed without going broke(er) ? I've been checking into college diesel tech programs, since they take things on as projects, but haven't heard back from them yet. Are there any good CRD mechanics in ID, MT, or WA?? I haven't found any on the post about that.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Unfortunately, at this stage, the engine repairs are necessary - the engine must be running well in order to address any other problems

- do not allow them to jump into the transmission while the engine is broke

- this will only serve to compound the original and any additional dealer-installed failures resulted from the current issues

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:55 pm

How the heck did the heater break off?
I'd love to see a picture of that.

Unfortunately there is no easy way to "check" the timing belt. Either it was replaced at 100,000 miles or it wasn't. Without documented proof there is no way to know for sure.

And yes, the water pump should be replaced when the timing belt is removed. You can take a shortcut and not replace it but in your case I wouldn't recommend that.

If nothing else was damaged when the drive belt let go, you should be able to still start and run the engine (fort a short while just to test).
Don't drive it like that but it will at least give an indication of how bad things really are.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:51 pm

flash7210 wrote:

If nothing else was damaged when the drive belt let go, you should be able to still start and run the engine (fort a short while just to test).
Don't drive it like that but it will at least give an indication of how bad things really are.

Yes, you should be able to start and run the engine for a short while....if your KJ has the gasoline-fueled I-4 or V6 engine

However, applying gasoline-fueled concepts to Diesel-fueled engines is how many people arrive at this forum - and some never learn the critical differences

Hopefully, your dealer service people will be aware of this and act accordingly

It is not a good idea to even start a Diesel engine with disconnected or defunct water pump, much less run it for awhile -

- Diesels generate more heat than gasoline engines, which is why the cooling systems are larger, incl the radiator, and why the thermostat system includes a bypass to ensure constant coolant flow thru the system, even when the T-stat is closed
- 'course, it is the water pump which generates this required coolant flow
- the KJ Diesel engine has an aluminum head, making that even more critical because combustion heat is transferred into the non-flowing coolant much faster than with a cast-iron head, which results in quickly boiling-off the coolant in the head water-jackets
- combustion heat can melt aluminum, warp aluminum, crack aluminum, expand aluminum so the valve-seats drop out, etc, etc -

Not even a good idea to even consider starting the KJ CRD engine with no coolant flow

Note: the attached viscous cabin heater is to overcome the 'deficiencies' of the constant-flow coolant system in winter climes - people need heat faster than the engine alone is allowed to generate that heat

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:50 pm

gmctd wrote:

Yes, you should be able to start and run the engine for a short while....if your KJ has the gasoline-fueled I-4 or V6 engine
It is not a good idea to even start a Diesel engine with disconnected or defunct water pump, much less run it for awhile -

- Diesels generate more heat than gasoline engines, which is why the cooling systems are larger, incl the radiator, and why the thermostat system includes a bypass to ensure constant coolant flow thru the system, even when the T-stat is closed

Note: the attached viscous cabin heater is to overcome the 'deficiencies' of the constant-flow coolant system in winter climes - people need heat faster than the engine alone is allowed to generate that heat

WOW, There are a lot of errors in this post, for someone that I thought had a solid impression of how the diesel in the CRD works.

She said her viscous heater broke loose, and the serpentine belt came off. This is proven out by the steering "locking up" which could be an easy description for the difficulty of manually steering such a short rack - it does require a fair bit of muscle, as the gearing is quite steep.

The WATER PUMP however, should still be just fine, as it is driven by the timing belt. If there wasn't a coolant leak (I didn't see where she mentioned any leaking) then the engine is just fine, and only needs the timing belt and water pump as a matter of the required maintenance that is overdue.

The mounting points for the viscous heater are all part of the water pump anyway, so that is one problem solved rather easily.

Now... About the misconceptions above:

Diesel fuel does have more energy (measured as BTU, the measure of heat energy) than gasoline, HOWEVER, a diesel is more 'thermally efficient' than a gas engine, which means that the engine simply extracts this energy into WORK, and does NOT waste as much as simple heat! Diesels DO NOT make more heat than a gas engine. The thermostat is supremely important on a diesel engine to ensure that the engine actually reaches operating temperatures for efficient operation. Most gas engines can operate just fine with no thermostat at all, and will STILL have the penchant to overheat if left idling for long periods.

If you idle a diesel engine, it actually will get too COLD for efficient combustion if the thermostat doesn't keep the temperature up. This is also why the CRD only gets to 1/4 on the temp gauge when the thermostat has failed. I drove my CRD around for an entire SUMMER in Savannah with no engine fan at all, and the thermostat failed. It never even reached the center of the gauge. Yes, the viscous heater is for comfort heat for the passengers, but it also heats the engine's water faster, which helps the engine reach operating temperatures faster, for better combustion efficiency.

A recent CRD I was working on, we took it for approximately a 25 mile series of test drives, without the serpentine belt connected. All on battery, and running just fine. Yes, it will be hard to steer, but if Purple_Girl needs to get her CRD to somewhere, it can be done and safely, at least for the engine. The transmission is another story.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:35 pm

Only mis-concpetion was assuming that the loss of the viscous heater, attached thru the water-pump casting, also took out the water pump, which is the other scenario, aside from being necessary at timing-belt replacement, leading the dealer to mention the water pump - you might be able to drive unloaded without the fan, but not without the water pump, and certainly not without coolant, leaked from a broke water pump

This is the problem with long-distance troubleshooting, using someone else's senses for required input and necessary feedback - additional caution is required if (even educated) guessing costs the owner's money by paying for any services rendered

Diesel fuel contains ~20% more BTU content per gallon than gasoline, which is one reason Diesels are more powerful per gallon than gassers - Diesels are also noted for producing similar power at low-rpm that gassers produce at high rpm, with that increased power beginning just off-idle - so, any off-idle rpm management in order to determine some other problem is not a viable test without coolant flow

Considering the fact that an idling Diesel can become so cold that Diesel fuel precipitates out of the injected spray, coalescing on the cylinder walls with resultant cracked rings, damaged ring lands, blowing down into the crankase and diluting the engine oil, and worse, the reason is that the coolant systems on the 18-wheelers, where the problem has been noted to occur, are so vast that jalousies (shutters) are required in front of the radiators to block airflow from the tubes - and why a lot of large Diesel fuel systems are equipped with a fast-idle control, intended to raise combustion temps during necessary idling conditons -

5.9L CUMMINS pickup truck owners may have, by now, noticed the obvious lack of any device for fast-idle application - some add-ons have been posted on the 'net, including my version to improve air conditioner cooling after conversion from R12 to R134 - that stuff don't cool very well at low rpms

It is not a good idea to start and run an aluminum-headed Diesel engine without a water pump, particularly so in a culture with a predilection for 'more is better'..............................

CRD Nightmares!

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