02 liberty with 3.9L isuzu, can you say tooooooorque!

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:05 am

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331418704039

Pretty awesome I think.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:18 am

Yes it is, but consider this:

The install is very impractical with the exhaust and turbo directly adjacent the power brake, ABS unit, and etc (hope he moved the fuel manager!) - even wrapping and shielding would not help much at that close proximity

And just think what that commercial-use Diesel engine without balance shafts would do the the KJ unibody and the mini auto-trans

The 200R4 trans was designed for GM's 4-cyls and small V6's, but did wind up behind Buick's 3800 Grand National turbocharged V6 with 3.54 final drive - it used corrugated sheet-metal 'drums' for the clutch paks, rather than the much-thicker stamped-steel in the 700R4, TH350 and TH400 automatics

The 200R4 was absolutely not designed for any engine with low-rpm torque, like a Diesel engine, much less a turbocharged Diesel engine

IMO, everything is pretty much mismatched in that KJ chassis - additionally, the gasoline-fuel VIN would not allow state inspection for a Diesel engine drivetrain - which is a major hassle preventing any conversion, these days, unlike in my youth when a fire wrench and a arc wrench would allow shoehorning any power source into the chassis with no hassle at license and inspection time

I do like that white body, tho - wish his was corrosion green and mine was white............................

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:57 am

Lol, the factory crd were a mismatch of parts! The 4bd2's are indirect injected, so normally they don't rattle as much as a direct injection, but still the 3.9l cummins 4bt is known for rattling as well.
If I remember right, the 4bd2tc was rated at 150hp, not sure about the torque.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:38 pm

And It's a 2wd. I would have put that engine in a wrangler or a small pickup such as s10 or ranger. I wonder how he made all that computer controlled instrument cluster work... For rpm he needs some sort of magnets on the crank pulley.

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:00 pm

I somewhat agree on the CRD - however, if that 3.9L 4BD shakes, rattles, and rolls as badly as the Cummins 3.9L 4BT, I pity the hapless driver in any commute, extended or not, if the much larger bread and other delivery trucks are any example of results of large-displacement Diesel 4-cyl operation - in this case, over 1Liter larger displacement than the 2.8L VM, and we got pilot injection and dual balance shafts
- as you may know, the Cummins 4BT is the 5.9L 6-cyl minus two cylinders, not even anywhere near as smooth-operating as the big six, except for that tremendous death-rattle at shutdown in both engines
- the Isuzu 4BD is the Isuzu 6BD less two cylinders, same scenario
- noting how violently the big six shakes the larger RAMs, and how violently the 4BT shakes the larger bread trucks, imagine what that would feel like in the smaller uni-body KJ
- those 4BT's were bad news for the huge GM Suburbans in the several conversions of which I was aware
- only reason the GM commercial chassis got the 4BD rather than the 4BT was GM's long-term partnership with ISUZU, since back in the '70's and the small
Isuzu P'UP P(ick)UP truck

The new for '89 GM pickup line was to get the big Caterpillar six, but Cat backed out when GM's Turbohydramatic division could not produce a slush-box that could handle the torque output of Big Yellow
- the Allison box of that era was an enhanced TH400 which BY would have soon trashed, so GM had to stick with the 6.2L and 6.5L TD upgrade until Isuzu and Allison offered coordinated products suitable for pick'em up service
- so, numbers of Suburban owners tried the Cummins 4BT as upgrades over the 6.2\6.5L GM Diesels
- also the Cummins 5.9L 6BT, but at the usual loss of airconditioning due to short engine bay dimension and long 6cyl dimension, where the radiator required relocation from behind to the front of the bulkhead leaving no room for the a\c condenser, etc
- some further management was attempted by beating the firewall back to allow back-setting the long 6BT to retain a\c
- smoother operation than the 4BT, but still that horrendous death-shake\rattle, almost always upsetting to female passengers

Ennyhoo, I s'pect several untenable results as prime reason for the sale of that KJ conversion, not even to mention the computer modules and peripherals - f'rinstance, dump the PCM to get rid of the DTC's and the instrument cluster won't be very happy

diesel_guy86 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:59 pm

The idi 4bd2's run smoother than the older direct injected 4bd1's. Which is why the 4bd2's are starting to become a popular swap now. I know a guy who put a 4bt in a dakota, said it would rattle his teeth, so pulled it out and installed the 4bd2 and has been happy since.

How it feels in a liberty, no idea, but I'm sure it rattles a lil more than the 2.8. An isuzu 3.2L 4jg2 would be a much better candidate and could deliver similar power once tweaked. It's a smaller motor and came in the late 80s equivalent of what we have, the isuzu trooper. The USA troopers never got the 4jg2 motor but they did everywhere else, and are easily available.

However the same problem exists, marrying a mechanical late 80s engine with a modern ecm controlled vehicle.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:10 pm

Why doesn't anybody consider Mercedes om6xx diesels? Those are very quiet, decent in torque and reasonable mileage. Ideal for a small to medium pickup/suv.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:01 pm

Pre-owned MB drivetrains are usually an order of magnitude more expensive than any other marques (notable exception: AUDI), with correspondingly high parts pricing\availability - this is usually only attempted when availability results from already owing an MB, maybe with bad body\frame, etc

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:20 am

gmctd wrote:

Pre-owned MB drivetrains are usually an order of magnitude more expensive than any other marques (notable exception: AUDI), with correspondingly high parts pricing\availability - this is usually only attempted when availability results from already owing an MB, maybe with bad body\frame, etc

Autohausaz.com has very good mb prices. They aren't more expensive than any American car parts, except some exotic parts such as transmission, special electric parts. Engine parts are actually cheaper than the parts for Crd. A reman whole injector is about 50-60 bucks (for om617), with brand new nozzles, but those are 120psi injectors for indirect injection (prechamber) engines. Pistons, rings, journals, other rebuild parts are also not too bad. Going to suspension (which is sort of off topic as I was talking about engine swaps) some parts are expensive, but still not too much over a jeep dealer price. A newer Mercedes with common rail and computer controlled everything -I can't speak about that. Older engines have so many companies making good parts that the price is pretty low, and the parts are good quality. There are parts you can't buy new, like turbo, and you need to buy reman (steering box reman for example is 600+ which is insane). Again, parts for a newer generation engine are indeed more expensive. But parts for an engine from 80s-90s are not bad at all.

Copart.com has also some Mercedes diesels pretty cheap (you need a dealer license to buy from them), I remember seeing about 5 last year crashed (non frontal) with up to 1500 and less than 170k miles, a friend got one also for parts for less than 1000 for a w126 with om617. The bad thing is there is about 600-1000 for delivery if you don't pick it up yourself. I even found few in tx. The biggest problem when swapping is the engine mounts, there are flex plates already made for jeep ax15 and om617 but I yet haven't found a company that makes the mounts and brackets for sale that I like.
http://www.mercedesdiesel4x4.com is another good source. Btw they have an engine for 1000 bucks, which is not expensive imo.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:01 am

Once you've graduated from mech inj to CRD class, all bets are off on pricing - the VM CRD is high maintenance, but DCJ is required to maintain certain availablilty of obsoleted parts for up to 10yrs, which can account for the hi prices on this discontinued product - they want you to upgrade to the later V6 CRD so they can dump inventory on this aborted attempt at Diesel-izing the masses

02 liberty with 3.9L isuzu, can you say tooooooorque!

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