Help! Tough CRD decision

jjr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:40 am **Posts:** 19

Hello,

New member here, I'm posting for my cousin who is too busy to ask the questions so I'm helping him out.
He has a 05 CRD 2000 miles ago his wife blew the turbo. Turbo, hoses, glow plugs & fuel injectors were replaced or rebuilt, $5000 later the Jeep has been running great, he's cresting a hill at 70 mph and the motor loses power and starts vibrating like crazy, no banging or metal sounds, he shifts into neutral and coasts to side of the highway and has it towed.

Vehicle just turned 100,000 miles I'm assuming it's the timing belt since it wasn't replaced ( I know :oops:

) and after some research worst case scenario all the rockers need to be replaced too? CRD has new tires, brakes, battery and is excellent condition. He loves the CRD too! Just wish he loved it enough to know service info.

The big question! Should he repair it? Estimated cost w/labor vs trying to do ourselves. Or try and sell the CRD as is? What do you guys think it value is as it sits?

Thx in advance!
Joe

senatorjohn · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:27 am

In Australia you would be flat out getting $1,000 unless you were very lucky. I wish you were here and close by. For a professional to do the job, they have to guarantee their work, so I assume they would want to remove the head to check valves and pistons. If you do it yourself, you could do a cylinder leakage check for valves and rings and if that checks out ok, assume no major damage and just do the obvious.
The professional rebuild would be close to the vehicle's previous value if we had to pay Australian prices.
John

dirtmover · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:43 am

jjr wrote:

...and after some research worst case scenario all the rockers need to be replaced too?

Incorrect, if the belt is broken this is actually the best case. Worst case would be valve, piston and camshaft damage also.

It's unfortunate to have a belt failure exactly at 100K but on an '05 I suspect age had a lot to do with that also. Chrysler never gave an age limit but Gates recommends 5 years IIRC.

It will cost ~$1K for the parts to DIY and about another $1.5K to have someone do the work for you.

In it's current state it may fetch between $2K-$4K depending on condition and finding the right buyer.

If it only needs the timing belt kit and rockers/lifters then it's worth a lot more repaired than it will cost you to repair it so it's a no brainer.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:32 am

location?

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:40 am

geordi wrote:

location?

Go get em Geordi!..Super VM Man!..."Here I come to save the day!!!" :BANANA:

jjr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:40 am **Posts:** 19

geordi wrote:

location?

Reno Nevada

I 'm sorry I need to revise my post. I just looked over his receipts. Parts replaced @ 90k, 10k miles ago. ( my cousin partied too much over the years)
Garrett turbo (blown)
Air Cooler Tube (torn)
Bosch fuel Ing. 4ea
Tranny Flex plate adapter, hub bolt & accs. (broken)
Battery
Fuel filter
EGR valve,gaskets & filter head kit (leaking)
Approx $4800

Glow Plugs replaced @85kmiles , his wife put unleaded in it, $2400 at stealership! Auto insurance paid for it ???

Thx for the help guys

thermorex · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:56 am

Yea, talk to Geordi, he is the "family doctor" for Crd and he may give you the best price other than you doing the repair job. He can travel to your location, provided you pay his expenses. Just pm him and talk details. Or, if you're in Cleveland area I can stay with you and work together in fixing the jeep.

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:05 pm

jjr wrote:

Glow Plugs replaced @85kmiles , his wife put unleaded in it, $2400 at stealership! Auto insurance paid for it ???

They did more than glow plugs for $2400...with gas in the tank, and all 4 injectors replaced..I would almost say a CP3 HPFP..but if they did that..why wouldn't they do WP & TB)??

jjr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:40 am **Posts:** 19

ArmyChief wrote:

jjr wrote:

Glow Plugs replaced @85kmiles , his wife put unleaded in it, $2400 at stealership! Auto insurance paid for it ???

They did more than glow plugs for $2400...with gas in the tank, and all 4 injectors replaced..I would almost say a CP3 HPFP..but if they did that..why wouldn't they do WP & TB)??

Glow plugs replaced @85k separate repair from Turbo and injectors ($1600 in labor)! Or at least mention the TB should be changed, ultimately it's the owners responsibility to know service intervals, but the stealership should have recommended it!

jjr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:40 am **Posts:** 19

dirtmover wrote:

jjr wrote:

...and after some research worst case scenario all the rockers need to be replaced too?

Incorrect, if the belt is broken this is actually the best case. Worst case would be valve, piston and camshaft damage also.

It's unfortunate to have a belt failure exactly at 100K but on an '05 I suspect age had a lot to do with that also. Chrysler never gave an age limit but Gates recommends 5 years IIRC.

It will cost ~$1K for the parts to DIY and about another $1.5K to have someone do the work for you.

In it's current state it may fetch between $2K-$4K depending on condition and finding the right buyer.

If it only needs the timing belt kit and rockers/lifters then it's worth a lot more repaired than it will cost you to repair it so it's a no brainer.

Thank you dirtmover, what do you guys think the odds are that the valves are bent?

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:29 pm

jjr wrote:

what do you guys think the odds are that the valves are bent?

Slim, the rockers are designed to break to save the valves/pistons

jjr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:40 am **Posts:** 19

ArmyChief wrote:

jjr wrote:

what do you guys think the odds are that the valves are bent?

Slim, the rockers are designed to break to save the valves/pistons

Thank you ArmyCheif, Does the loss of power and heavy engine vibration sound like a TB jumping or breaking to you? I know it's tough to diagnose unless it's happened to you!

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:37 pm

jjr wrote:

ArmyChief wrote:

jjr wrote:

what do you guys think the odds are that the valves are bent?

Slim, the rockers are designed to break to save the valves/pistons

Thank you ArmyCheif, Does the loss of power and heavy engine vibration sound like a TB jumping or breaking to you? I know it's tough to diagnose unless it's happened to you!

Yes, STRICTLY based off your description an the lack of any record of TB & WP replacement. Further testing would need to be performed to be 100% (scope MAF, cranking starter current)

runmober · **Joined:** Fri May 09, 2014 4:21 pm **Posts:** 16

This really needs to be properly diagnosed. It could be tranny related as well.

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:46 pm

ArmyChief wrote:

Further testing would need to be performed to be 100% (scope MAF, cranking starter current)

jjr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:40 am **Posts:** 19

thermorex wrote:

Yea, talk to Geordi, he is the "family doctor" for Crd and he may give you the best price other than you doing the repair job. He can travel to your location, provided you pay his expenses. Just pm him and talk details. Or, if you're in Cleveland area I can stay with you and work together in fixing the jeep.

Thx for the offer thermorex!

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:26 pm

Transmission issues are unlikely at this stage, as it would run like crap (if at all) even at idle with broken rockers. They are the designed failure point for any timing-related mishaps.

Just because a dealership had their hands on it, does NOT mean that they did the timing correctly either.

I'd bet money that a LOT of parts that have already been replaced have not actually needed to be replaced, this is the crime of dealerships and mechanics that "Oh SURE! We've worked on TONS of these and OF COURSE we have a diesel certified mechanic in the shop!" all spew this same line of complete horse pucky.

Generally speaking - Turbos on these aren't blown until everyone in the area KNOWS that they are trashed. Injectors don't fail on these either. The intake hoses, yes, that is a well-known failure. Oil in the intake IS FULLY NORMAL and means exactly JACK SQUAT about the health of your turbo. Sorry, but the source of the oil is the intake itself on the top of the engine, and every mechanic I've ever heard from or about, says that it is a "failed turbo seal" which is amazing... Because the turbo doesn't HAVE any seals that can fail. It doesn't have seals.

Dealerships are clueless and are just as likely as not, to put the same old belt right back in the engine when working on more important things elsewhere. By the same token, you don't need to take apart the timing cover for bad fuel, and they would charge something insane for the CP3 if they replaced it (It doesn't get damaged by gasoline, BTW, there is a special coating on the components) so for $2400... I don't know what they did other than have a nice deep swim in your bank account. Sorry about that.

Based on the current evidence, it still doesn't rule out a belt failure and rocker damage, but that isn't to say that is the only potential problem. At this point, anyone attempting a diagnosis will be picking up a LOT of pieces from previous chimpanzees that have been playing in there. Proceed with caution.

What kind of timeline does he have on the repairs - can it be done slowly / carefully, or is he down a vehicle and needs to get to work? What kind of tools does he have available?

jjr · **Joined:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:40 am **Posts:** 19

geordi wrote:

Transmission issues are unlikely at this stage, as it would run like crap (if at all) even at idle with broken rockers. They are the designed failure point for any timing-related mishaps.

Just because a dealership had their hands on it, does NOT mean that they did the timing correctly either.

I'd bet money that a LOT of parts that have already been replaced have not actually needed to be replaced, this is the crime of dealerships and mechanics that "Oh SURE! We've worked on TONS of these and OF COURSE we have a diesel certified mechanic in the shop!" all spew this same line of complete horse pucky.

Generally speaking - Turbos on these aren't blown until everyone in the area KNOWS that they are trashed. Injectors don't fail on these either. The intake hoses, yes, that is a well-known failure. Oil in the intake IS FULLY NORMAL and means exactly JACK SQUAT about the health of your turbo. Sorry, but the source of the oil is the intake itself on the top of the engine, and every mechanic I've ever heard from or about, says that it is a "failed turbo seal" which is amazing... Because the turbo doesn't HAVE any seals that can fail. It doesn't have seals.

Dealerships are clueless and are just as likely as not, to put the same old belt right back in the engine when working on more important things elsewhere. By the same token, you don't need to take apart the timing cover for bad fuel, and they would charge something insane for the CP3 if they replaced it (It doesn't get damaged by gasoline, BTW, there is a special coating on the components) so for $2400... I don't know what they did other than have a nice deep swim in your bank account. Sorry about that.

Based on the current evidence, it still doesn't rule out a belt failure and rocker damage, but that isn't to say that is the only potential problem. At this point, anyone attempting a diagnosis will be picking up a LOT of pieces from previous chimpanzees that have been playing in there. Proceed with caution.

What kind of timeline does he have on the repairs - can it be done slowly / carefully, or is he down a vehicle and needs to get to work? What kind of tools does he have available?

Glow plugs and fuel issue was paid for by auto insurance so that's OK. Turbo was definitely trashed he has pics and saw it pulled, turbo and other work was not done by the stealership, independent diesel turbo mechanic (doesn't mean anything either). At this point he's trying to decide whether he should throw more money at it or cut his loses and dump it. I was just giving the history of the vehicle so someone could give me some rough estimate of value. I would think this would be the type of vehicle someone like yourself with the mechanic knowledge to repair would want.

Yes he has tools, but I'm sure not all that is needed, Miller etc. he does not want to do the work, I possibly could, but I'm not that experienced and would be using youtube videos LOL. I understand you travel to do these type of repairs, if you're in Georgia it wouldn't make fiscal sense I would think. After the turbo work he was offered $10k from a guy in Calif but he decided to keep it, big mistake I would say. Lets say it needs TB,WP, rockers & tune only, is it worth another $3-3.5k in repairs and can he get $10k

Everyone is great here, I just wish he being the original owner would have done more research on the vehicle regarding maintenance and such.
Thx all.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:02 pm

Quote:

I 'm sorry I need to revise my post. I just looked over his receipts. Parts replaced @ 90k, 10k miles ago. ( my cousin partied too much over the years)
Garrett turbo (blown)
Air Cooler Tube (torn)
Bosch fuel Ing. 4ea
Tranny Flex plate adapter, hub bolt & accs. (broken)
Battery
Fuel filter
EGR valve,gaskets & filter head kit (leaking)
Approx $4800
Glow Plugs replaced @85kmiles , his wife put unleaded in it, $2400 at stealership! Auto insurance paid for it ???

My

1. geordi knows his stuff
2. turbo not blown unless when you grab the impeller wheel (front) it has play (slight fore/aft ok; barely perceptible side to side ok). When turbo blows it usually dumps all the engine oil and fries the engine. If turbo is fried but engine ok $1,200 or so for new Garratt turbo.
3. air cooler tube - if you mean air filter box to turbo hose the tear is not unusual - replacement ca. $60
4. tranny stuff - how to they know and what's accs? If bolts are in fact a problem that's a big deal as tranny has to come out.
5. battery - routine item but is it a bad battery or a failed alternator decoupler pulley so it's not charging battery?
6. fuel filter and in next line filter head kit - 2n gen filter head with filter and WIF sensor and wiring runs ca. $125
7. EGR valve is the first part a part's swapper wants to sell you. Rarely fails and can be cleaned or simply blocked off.
8. glad insurance paid the RIP OFF $2,400 for gasoline fillup - cure is drain tank of gasoline, fill filter with DieselKleen or some such, fill tank with diesel; crank up to purge system; drive.

As to your on the road problem. Could be several things including TB and rockers. With a couple of appropriate size drill bits (ok as test but not to set timing), a 6mm/0.25" long shaft allen key, and basic tools (see TB instructions) to get fan and fan shroud off you can the manually rotate the engine and check timing (NOTE especially the position of the crank bolts and dimple. If timing is off, rather likely, tools can be rented from weeks101 and idparts has a solid timing belt/WP kit plus rockers/lifters for a decent price. Job is tedious but not technically difficult - say 2 days if you are not geordi vs less if you are.

ArmyChief · **Posted:** Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:09 pm

Nobody's biting on my scope testing...

Help! Tough CRD decision

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