Setting CRD Timing after belt slip

jeffhauck · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:55 pm

My 2006 CRD timing belt jumped which caused my Rockers to snap. (Common from what I have read) I took it apart replaced the rockers (all 16)
Put my pins in the CAM.
Put my Pin in the Fly wheel
Put the timing belt on and started it (I replaced all the parts). It was running fine. Put it the rest of the way back together and started it backed out of the garage and started down the street and it broke again.

Took it back apart and the timing was off again! My alignment marks where even off. Two more rockers had borken on Cylinder 4,

What could I have missed?

Diver1430 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:33 pm

Certainly there are others on here that know this subject well beyond me, but just having finished the same thing for the first time I did not put the timing belt cover back on and ran it without the serpinetine for a very short while. I held my breath and prayed a little.
That said, did you swap your adjuster and idlers?? Are you confident of the torque on the cam gears. Did you use guides to put the head back on to assure that you did not knock over a rocker? Did you remove the head and replace the head gasket, not necessary, but in my case I thought it prudent to send head to a head shop and have it and the valves checked. Cheap insurance!! I also ran for a few minutes, then put the pins back in, then I did it again after running a hundred miles. Pins were perfect,
My TB jumped, but it was because the serpinetine came apart slowly and serpentine wires got into the cam gear and caused the slippage.

jeffhauck · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:01 pm

I replaced the water pump, belt, tensioner and idlers. I set the torque wrench to 80lbs.
I did not pull the head.

All I can think of is that I got the belt on off a tooth and it eventually adjusted a cam but that I didnt think that would be possible?

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:35 pm

Did you turn the engine few times (usually by hand) and readjusted the belt tensioner? Did you also torque everything per fsm? I wonder if you forgot to torque something such as cam sprockets or tensioner...

uham · **Joined:** Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:48 am **Posts:** 37

Jeff, eveyone dreads changing their timing belt. Here are some things I check to make sure it is truly in time.

1) After initial timing setting turn the crank shaft clock wise 3 revolutions and check your timing marks again. They should be in alignment. Retension the belt.

2) Even if you are using a flywheel pin, check your 90 degree crank shaft mark. The flywheel pin allows a small amount of play.

3) I always double check my torque at every bolt at least twice. I almost set my cam sprockets to 50 lbs insted of 80 lbs once.

4) If you have any wobble on your water pump sprocket it must be replaced.

5) After you have done the above, run the motor for 30 seconds and retension the belt again.

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:49 pm

It is not necessary to run the engine for 30 sec (more or less) the 2nd time if the belt has been properly seated by turning few times the engine and the tensioner had been adjusted. The whole point in readjusting the tensioner is that belt may not be properly seated after installation. As it won't hurt anything, it is not necessary if the first few complete rotations and tensioner readjustments had been done properly.

jeffhauck · **Posted:** Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:13 pm

Since I am fixing this after a failure I don’t have timing marks that are aligned. Here is what I did
I put the cam pins in
I put the fly wheel pin in
I put the intake back on
I put all the parts back on (replaced tensioner, idlers, water pump)
I set the injector to its timing mark
Put belt on starting at crank
Set Tension
Torque cam bolts
Removed Pins
Spun engine over twice
Put pins back in
Pulled pins
Started motor (I did notice that my idler was moving a little)
It was running fine until I put it under load and then bang

Steevo · **Posted:** Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:33 pm

You have me nervous because this is exactly the scenario I was in, and will be attempting to fix this weekend with new rockets/timing belt/etc. Did you not re-check the tension of the belt after turning the motor over twice?

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

jeffhauck wrote:

Since I am fixing this after a failure I don’t have timing marks that are aligned. Here is what I did
I put the cam pins in
I put the fly wheel pin in
I put the intake back on
I put all the parts back on (replaced tensioner, idlers, water pump)
I set the injector to its timing mark
Put belt on starting at crank
Set Tension
Torque cam bolts
Removed Pins
Spun engine over twice
Put pins back in
Pulled pins
Started motor (I did notice that my idler was moving a little)
It was running fine until I put it under load and then bang

What is "bang"? Assume you put the crank to 90 ATDC before you put the belt on? Assume "injector" means fuel pump? Assume you tightened the TB tensioner to spec? How long did you run it? Assume you ran it and it went "bang" while you were running it with the TB cover off? How long did it run before it went "bang"? Very interesting!

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:33 pm

The step that I see missing is that you did not set the tensioner again after you spun the engine twice and replaced the cam pins to assure alignment after your 2 revolutions.

The tensioner actually sets tension when you rotate the belt twice or three times and the witness pin sticking out of the top of the tensioner will actually move during it's initial alignment. I always set it again at full tension, and I've never had your issue.

Two revolutions, IIRC, isn't enough to line your engine back up, I believe it takes 3 to re-align all your alignment marks, are you sure you only did 2 and the pins went back in?

Did you use the VM.1089 or did you use an allen key? (Idle Curiousity, not blaming anyone here)

There have also been reports of bad tensioners, if your idler pulleys were moving that's bad because they should only turn, the idler pulleys should never "MOVE" laterally or vertically, but sit completely still and spin.

I definitely would like to see some pictures when you open it back up. Especially behind the timing belt cover prior to you removing anything.

You don't need timing marks for the top end, that's the pin's job. Cams are in time with the locking pins in place.

The CP3 pump has a witness mark.

Your old marks for the crank shouldn't have disappeared.

The water pump is always in time, lol.
Timing shouldn't be an issue.

jeffhauck · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:23 pm

OK so I pulled it apart and put it back together.

It started, but it now seems to be blowing by the injectors?

Any Ideas? I did replace the O-rings when I had it apart.

I took a short vid of it running, but not sure how to post

jeffhauck · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:40 pm

video at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Os_MD ... e=youtu.be

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 291

jeffhauck wrote:

OK so I pulled it apart and put it back together.

It started, but it now seems to be blowing by the injectors?

Any Ideas? I did replace the O-rings when I had it apart.

I took a short vid of it running, but not sure how to post

Rubber O- ring is for debris managepment. The copper washer at the bottom is what creates the seal. Assume you replaced them the properly torqued the crows foot.

flman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:45 am

I never put the pins back in to recheck the timing, and when you did was it off?

I also do not retension, though I notice it does change with the initial 2 revolutions, I would hate to think I was putting additional strain on all of the pulleys beyond the recomended intitial tension.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:38 am

flman wrote:

I never put the pins back in to recheck the timing, and when you did was it off?

I also do not retension, though I notice it does change with the initial 2 revolutions, I would hate to think I was putting additional strain on all of the pulleys beyond the recomended intitial tension.

jeffhauck · **Posted:** Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:48 pm

I just cleaned the washer, but I did not replace them. I will verify the injector torque.

I turned over twice put my pins back in
reset the tension
Turned over twice more and put the pins back in.

:banghead:

flman · **Posted:** Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:43 pm

jeffhauck wrote:

I just cleaned the washer, but I did not replace them. I will verify the injector torque.

I turned over twice put my pins back in
reset the tension
Turned over twice more and put the pins back in.

:banghead:

So was it still on time? Can you imagine how redundant it would be if it were off every time, you would not retime, crank 2X put in pin, off again, repeat........... :banghead:

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:47 pm

jeffhauck wrote:

I just cleaned the washer, but I did not replace them. I will verify the injector torque.

I turned over twice put my pins back in
reset the tension
Turned over twice more and put the pins back in.

:banghead:

The injector washer is a crush washer and must be replace every time you take an injector out or it will leak pressure.

Setting CRD Timing after belt slip

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