IRO WJ Rear Upper A Arm Install (Completed)

dgeist · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:33 pm

TJ, I would have thought the ball race and the nylon bushes in the serviceable joint would dampen similarly. Are you saying that from experience?

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:11 pm

Nylon bushings would never be anywhere close to the factory ball joint / bushings in front in not transferring noise/ vibes etc
While they would dampen a small amount wouldn't be close enough that if you are sensitive to noises transferring through the frame

Troy will explain better I am sure :wink:

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:56 pm

That's what the oem bushings are for.

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:59 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

WhitbyKJ wrote:

Will the bj not allow the pinion to dip/rise when transferring load as your shift from forward to reverse, etc. Even if it's minimal... With the a arm, by design its none. No pinion dive/rise.

Sorry, I'm not the world ls best communicator. I am talking about flange angle. Like pinion angle.

If the ball joint is good then the OEM tri-link will hold that pinion angle just like what you have and at the same time reduce noise and road shock transfer to the body which your set up will not do.

I don't see it.

If the boomerang is allowed to travel up and down that means the bj has room to go back and forth. Meaning pinion angle movement.

With the JJ there is only up and down.

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:00 pm

*shrug*

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

I dont see the big deal...tons of Jeeps were built on Jonny Joints. If you want a quite ride then stay with factory stuff. If you want max articulation then JJ or heims are the way to go.

And many, many rear ends on hot rods and WJs were built using the same type of tri link setup like OP is using. The only question would be the bracket itself.

jeeptorino68 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:02 pm

this is excellent. would be nice to get good products like this out to everyone!
trying to post some screen shots of the design

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:10 pm

Thank you all for your critiques and enthusiasms.

Thank you to JeepTorino for his countless hours spent manipulating my iPhone drawings.

Allow me I explain where we sit.

The bracket comes waterjet cut with relief slits for folding. The lower bracket gets folded first. Then welded (by a certified welder of course). Then once you verify your bracket is square, the upper gets folded and the two tabs are placed into the lower bracket. Weld the lower bracket to the upper. Bend the tabs all the way over... INWARDS. Some clearance grinding may be required on the tabs for the shoulders in the axle. Then weld the tabs.

This design ensures 100% fit up and not not does it get welded, but the upper bracket is mechanically locked to the lower, should the untiinkable happen.. It provides a back up safety.

Currently the lower hole is slotted until I figure out exactly where the bottom hole sits. (Wednesday:Thursday)

Opinions vary on the arm . I.e some people like it some don't. Not my place to comment. Sorry for commenting on it already. This won't happen again.

I like the arm. I knew I wasn't the only one. So I made a bracket.

Likewise I am open to the idea of making one in 3/8ths and getting a mould made up for cast steel. I may be barking up the wrong tree.. But it's just an idea.

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

Im serious, i just showed the wife, she wants one for her KJ too....so im in for two!!!

Love the design, looks super strong and will help up.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:14 pm

Any clue on about how much more articulation a guy might get with a 2.5" OME lift? A couple of inches or more sounds worth while. And, we have to ditch the stabilizer bar to get the extra articulation right?

Thanks for all of the hard work!

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:18 pm

I'm still not sold on the whole sway bar thing. I stuffed my tires not with and without the swaybar. I dunno.

What I can tell you, is that when I took revision 1 out wheeling, I stuffed my tire all the way.

What else I can tell you, is that I designed the bracket so that the joint articulates to both axis without hitting the walls, and it doesn't need misalignment spacers, nor will they fit.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:35 pm

alright, thanks. The new stock triangle I installed about 13k ago should almost ready for replacement by now anyhow :ROTFL:

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

Mountainman wrote:

alright, thanks. The new stock triangle I installed about 13k ago should almost ready for replacement by now anyhow :ROTFL:

My wifes upper arm is shot also. Bushings are gone and ball joint needs help. This sounds like a perfect solution to drop in whike in back there installing her rear locker and gears

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:45 am

4x4kayak2112 wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

alright, thanks. The new stock triangle I installed about 13k ago should almost ready for replacement by now anyhow :ROTFL:

My wifes upper arm is shot also. Bushings are gone and ball joint needs help. This sounds like a perfect solution to drop in whike in back there installing her rear locker and gears

Yeah, I wish this came along before I spent the time to press in all new bushings and balljoint (I guess I must still have the original rusty triangle), oh well. I remember almost smashing the triangle in the press as the balljoint finally popped out, pretty flimsy! I'll be putting in an OX in the rear before too long, I'll probably follow your lead on that.

fortx4 KJ · **Posted:** Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:18 am

I'm curious on the bushings to the frame and what they are? Jj or rubber? Can they be changed out and what are the dimensions? Can you fit other types of joints in there? Looks good and plan to replace my boomerang when the production rolls around. 100k on the stock upper is a no go!

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:27 am

I promised I wouldn't chime in on my personal opinion about the arm that I have.

But fact is. It comes with rubber bushings very similar if not exactly like the oem ones.

This arm is for the wj remember. Meaning all one would have to do is hit up rockauto for replacement bushings.

Someone should check (I don't have time) and cross reference part numbers on rock auto for rear upper outer bushings wj vs kj

dgeist · **Posted:** Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:21 am

tommudd wrote:

Nylon bushings would never be anywhere close to the factory ball joint / bushings in front in not transferring noise/ vibes etc
While they would dampen a small amount wouldn't be close enough that if you are sensitive to noises transferring through the frame

Right, "rubber > nylon" for Noise/Vibration/Harshness concerns... but I guess I assumed that the factory rear ball did ride inside something more rigid like the JJ's nylon and was simply covered by a rubber boot to keep scree out (making it essentially a wash on vibration). Is that not the case? It would be interesting to track the longevity of the body-side bushings if they are indeed absorbing significantly more of the brunt of the road/trail.

Dan

Rotor · **Posted:** Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:05 pm

My rear boomerang is shot, so you could put me down for one as well for purchase and testing.

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:22 pm

Bracket Update:

Sorry about the splatter. I have a PowerWeld machine, it just does that. It also turns 1/4 plate into butter, on occasion.

The baseplate however I welded last night on the 480v canox machine... you wanna talk about horse power... *tim allen grunt*

I am still on night shift, 7pm to 7am. I am off cycle tomorrow morning officially. So after I get some shut eye I will treat with muriatic acid for mill scale removal, then neutralize, blaa blaa blaa.. bolt on and pics will follow.

As a quick poll, how many people would support and sign a no liability waiver for this bracket, specifically for the test group?

Keep in mind, I won't be doing a full production for this. Too much risk and the woman would castrate me. IRO said they would be willing to jump in if we show them a) a successful product, b) interest in the product.

Likewise JBA said he was trying to develop a similar solution.

From a raw steel cut up on the water jet, to folded and welded, took about 2.5 hours, keep in mind, I am dog tired at the moment.

I admire all the support you guys give. This started out as a project just for me, I wanted to see if it could be done. Out of the woodwork came a whole community in support of something untested and totally new. This site rocks.

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:36 pm

oh!

I forgot to mention, these are NOT individual pieces welded together in a jig...

They are water jet into a stencil pattern made of 1/4" thick steel. On the outsides of the pieces are tabs, on the inside are cuts that you fold on.

Its pretty straight forward, fold on the cut lines.

After every fold, you are left with an outside corner joint which gets filled with weld. duh, no brainer outside corner joints are easy and fun

Meaning, I could ship the test samples as two flat pieces to which you would have welded professionally.

SIDENOTE:

I am VERY heavy on knowing what your doing when it comes to welding. Seen too many people get hurt from overzealous, albeit enthusiastic noobs with a budget welder and a how to guide. I've been welding since 2008, pretty much 4 times a week. Never had a weld brake, ever. Yes, I have made garbage welds, but those find themselves getting recycled, or put up as internet jokes depending on how bad it was screwed up. Everybody screws up when they are learning, and that's okay. Perfectly okay. I applaud those that want to learn.

What is not okay, is learning to weld, while employing critical welds.

This bracket, is a critical weld. It doesn't mean the bracket is unsafe, it just means that you gotta know what your doing. For your sake, and mine.

Sorry for the rant, I will help anybody learn to weld that wants to, but please, no critical welds if you don't know what your doing.

IRO WJ Rear Upper A Arm Install (Completed)

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