Looking to buy

papadocskj · **Posted:** Fri May 29, 2015 5:07 pm

Hey, so I am looking to buy a crd liberty. I use to have an 02 which I unfortunately had to give away... And regretted it. So I have found an 06 diesel with 94k miles on it and the dealer has it priced at $12,700. My question to you is what sort of issues should I be looking for with it and also how much would you give for it if you were in my shoes. I was contemplating giving $10,500 out the door for it. What do you think?

KC-CRD · **Joined:** Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:20 pm **Posts:** 47

Tell them you need documented proof that the timing belt has been changed. At that price, you don't need to be planning a $1,000 in immediate maintenance. That's a given for any small diesel engine. (interference engine with a timing belt)

Can't really say on price. But over $10k there should be no repairs needed. It should fall in the 'excellent' category for KBB, NADA, Edmunds, etc.

rankom · **Posted:** Fri May 29, 2015 8:03 pm

no more then 7500 because you need 2500 for parts when you bring it home

papadocskj · **Posted:** Fri May 29, 2015 10:08 pm

Hmmm, interesting. So the timing belt is one thing that I need to look for. But $2500 in parts?
What else should I keep in mind? Ill make sure I bring down what I was originally going to offer for sure.

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 2:45 am

It all starts to add up let us say he has no proof of timing belt service which is true in 99% cases unless you buy your crd from a fellow lost member, you need timing belt kit that is 400 ,arp head bolts is another 350 ,weeks kit one and two is another 300, set of rockers is 370 , glow plugs is another 100 and factor in oem turbo which is 1200 . All these parts are just parts no labor and all these parts are listed here as these cars are getting up in age and any of these items listed can fail anytime leading to catastrophic engine failure . All these parts are required to be replaced based on age factor and superior crap tech designed EGR.
Now we get into optionals like GDE tune , Lift options Drive train u joints cv axels exhaust upgrade etc. So it is a good hobby and welcome to the family. :JEEPIN:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 6:12 am

Folks let's not go too far out of the way to scare a possible new member.

1. a used CRD is in many ways no different from any other used vehicle. Tires, battery, alternator, brakes, alignment, steering, etc. Just get inspected by an independent entity. On a used vehicle I routinely figure coolant/oil/drive line fluids all need changing now. If coolant is green or a bright orange it's not the right coolant and system will need to be flushed.
2. it does need a timing belt ideally at 100K miles or ca 6 years which ever comes first. This vehicle is past that so unless you have PROOF a tb job will need to be done. The kit from idparts is $399 and you might be able to catch geordi on his upcoming western trip but if not it's a tedious but doable 4-5 hr job. If no proof discount price by $1,000 - $1,200
3. before buying get it to a Jeep dealer for a scan including IIRC a MAP reading at idle. Others while have to weigh in as to the numbers but this will give you critical information on the condition of the rockers. If bad factor in new rockers and ARP studs in addition to the TB job. If good just drive after a TB job
4. have them pull the turbo side CAC hose and the airbox to turbo hose. Wiggle and pull the turbo "fan" if there is only a tiny amount of fore/aft play and barely perceptible to no side to side play the turbo is ok. If more turbo is on the way out; figure new turbo $1,200 plus 3 hrs labor.

Off hand I'd say $10K or so would be reasonable but if the above checks out $11K might be ok but that's just a guess.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 6:47 am

Factor in ~$3,000 investestment in parts to get it in top notch condition mechanically as the others have stated and that is if you do all the work yourself. If you do not like to do your own maintenance and / or perform your own repairs and updates, this is probably not a vehicle for that type of person?... :wink:

Timing belt, head bolts, rockers, fuel pump, tunes, springs, shocks, control arms, rear links, tires, fuel filter heads, boost hoses, inlet hose, CVC Provent, etc. are some of the many things that will come into repair needs when purchasing a used Jeep CRD Diesel...
Most on this forum have been there, done that in one part or all..... :roll:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 7:46 am

papadocskj wrote:

Hmmm, interesting. So the timing belt is one thing that I need to look for. But $2500 in parts?
What else should I keep in mind? Ill make sure I bring down what I was originally going to offer for sure.

These 2 and 3 thousand dollar parts (and labor?) quotes are realistic and reflect what many CRD owners have spent to keep it running beyond 150k miles. But it doesn't all have to be done right away.
The only thing that has to be done right away is the timing belt.
I would be very surprised if the turbo was bad or the rockers were worn out. But they should be checked or at least budgeted for future repair.
You don't know what its previous maintenance history is or what kind of oils have been used in it. Whatever was done wrong in the past, this is an opportunity to set it straight for a long life.
But it's gonna take some $$$ and work to do so.
You have to be willing to get your hands dirty and do a lot of the work yourself. Most of the shops have zero experience with this engine and when you take your CRD to them you will be paying them to learn about it. Mainly in the form of overpriced parts and many hours of diagnosis.

Lastly, the EGR valve.
This has been known to cause some serious problems with CRD engine.
The only way to fix that is to get rid of it. Being that you live in CA and have to do emissions inspections this can be a problem.
Due to the ignorance of the inspectors, it may be possible to delete it all and they won't notice because they don't know what to look for. But there are ways to functionally delete the EGR while visually keeping things intact. This kind of EGR work you would have to do yourself because no shop in CA is going to knowingly remove a emissions control device from a vehicle.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 1:12 pm

pm sent

papadocskj · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 1:24 pm

Being that I was a kj owner, I am sort of familiar with a lot of this vehicle. The difference is my old rig use to be gasoline. And just like in my old kj I am planning on doing most of the labor myself. After regrettably giving my kj away i discovered that my love for it was greater then the damage it had sustained. Thus my want for one won't be affected by the needs which a used car will have. Unless rubicon prices drop tremendously, which they aren't. I had her with a 4" lift, lockers front and back arb pull bar (which i have if anyone is interested for a 02-04) winch 265/75 tires. All this equaled to an average of 11-15 mpg. The damage she sustained required a new tranny and transfer case. So all this in mind I understand the work that will be required. And hopefully by the end I can hold an above 20mpg average. Things I am unable to do though like internals are where my skills lack tremendously and I will have to depend on a mechanic as well as advise from people with experience (lost members). Also the Diesel engine will be an all new learning experience for me. With that in mind I don't really mind the $3,000 estimated to have her in great shape. But it would affect me if it's needed right away. I will keep in mind the TB job and the turbo when I go check the vehicle right now though from what they told me it is in getting some kind of work done and won't be ready till Tuesday. So on Tuesday I will find out for sure and see if they will accept my offer which will depend mainly on those two major jobs that it will need or might need.

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 3:30 pm

See the idea here is not to scare potential buyers away but to give you a realistic idea of what you are getting into. On the flip side there are greedy auto dealers out there who prey on Jeep lovers with little or no idea on these little tractors. All issues sorted these Jeeps are a good investment at 10-11K otherwise you should not spend more than 7 K and get all these repairs done by yourself or someone in the know (more $ and hard to find) these little tractors are fun to drive. I jumped into it without all the insight 3 year ago and spent 15 K on this then i did timing belt and provent for 3K and had fun filled 3 summers now i am again spending another 4K . The pain of lost $ is quickly replaced by the thrill of :JEEPIN:

. This jeep will give you 18-20 MPG all day long and i have not had the fortune of driving it on long freeway drives with magical 28-30 MPG yet as for last 3 years it is my DD and i could not afford a vacation or trip past Seattle :2cents:

.

thermorex · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 5:37 pm

You'll be probably cheaper keeping the arb bumper for your new crd. You'll need to replace fenders and get new turn lights and fog lights. Regarding the crd, if you want to play offroad a bit, plan in getting a Suncoast torque converter, timing belt kit, a tune, weeks kits and also turbo diesel freak thermostat. That would run you over 2000 easy, this with your work. But I'll be darn, it's worth! Just make sure you don't have issues getting your hands dirty doing your own work, it gets very expensive having somebody doing it for you, and other than Geordi, I don't know anyone willing to travel to do it for you. Dealers or any other mechanics are very risky.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat May 30, 2015 7:20 pm

If you are going to do the timing belt, and you should unless you have an ironclad guarantee that it has been done within the last 3 years/60k miles, then checking the rockers is a very good idea.
Some of them are likely to be bad. I check the turbo every oil change. and note the condition carefully every time.

I would also clean the intake manifold/camshaft holder/valve cover *thoroughly* and replace the head bolts with ARP studs one by one, replace the water pump while you are there, put in a rebuilt Denso alternator, and replace the glow plugs with metal 7v plugs. It's all so much easier to do this stuff while you are in there anyway. Sure, if money is tight, you can wait on some or all of it, but understand up front that this is a lot more work for you in the long run. Water pumps and alternators are good for around 100k usually.

My :2cents:

; YMMV; my opinion is worth what you paid for it. Good luck!

flash7210 wrote:

papadocskj wrote:

Hmmm, interesting. So the timing belt is one thing that I need to look for. But $2500 in parts?
What else should I keep in mind? Ill make sure I bring down what I was originally going to offer for sure.

These 2 and 3 thousand dollar parts (and labor?) quotes are realistic and reflect what many CRD owners have spent to keep it running beyond 150k miles. But it doesn't all have to be done right away.
The only thing that has to be done right away is the timing belt.
I would be very surprised if the turbo was bad or the rockers were worn out. But they should be checked or at least budgeted for future repair.
You don't know what its previous maintenance history is or what kind of oils have been used in it. Whatever was done wrong in the past, this is an opportunity to set it straight for a long life.
But it's gonna take some $$$ and work to do so.
You have to be willing to get your hands dirty and do a lot of the work yourself. Most of the shops have zero experience with this engine and when you take your CRD to them you will be paying them to learn about it. Mainly in the form of overpriced parts and many hours of diagnosis.

<snip>

papadocskj · **Posted:** Sun May 31, 2015 1:40 am

Thank you all for the great insight and advice. Hopefully come Monday I can rejoin the kj family once again.

Thermorex, you said that I should use the arb bumber on the crd. But will it fit? Cause when I look it up it seems that when choosing to buy it it gives you option for 2002-2004 model year and then 2005-2007 model year which made me think that it wouldn't fit in the crd bein that my number was for a 2002 kj and the crd will be a 2006. If it can be put on that would make me happy. $1200 that didn't go to waste.

Rixram · **Posted:** Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:27 pm

Srytrucker wrote:

It all starts to add up let us say he has no proof of timing belt service which is true in 99% cases unless you buy your crd from a fellow lost member, you need timing belt kit that is 400 ,arp head bolts is another 350 ,weeks kit one and two is another 300, set of rockers is 370 , glow plugs is another 100 and factor in oem turbo which is 1200 . All these parts are just parts no labor and all these parts are listed here as these cars are getting up in age and any of these items listed can fail anytime leading to catastrophic engine failure . All these parts are required to be replaced based on age factor and superior crap tech designed EGR.
Now we get into optionals like GDE tune , Lift options Drive train u joints cv axels exhaust upgrade etc. So it is a good hobby and welcome to the family. :JEEPIN:

Papaindigo" wrote:

Folks let's not go too far out of the way to scare a possible new member.

1. a used CRD is in many ways no different from any other used vehicle. Tires, battery, alternator, brakes, alignment, steering, etc. Just get inspected by an independent entity. On a used vehicle I routinely figure coolant/oil/drive line fluids all need changing now. If coolant is green or a bright orange it's not the right coolant and system will need to be flushed.
2. it does need a timing belt ideally at 100K miles or ca 6 years which ever comes first. This vehicle is past that so unless you have PROOF a tb job will need to be done. The kit from idparts is $399 and you might be able to catch geordi on his upcoming western trip but if not it's a tedious but doable 4-5 hr job. If no proof discount price by $1,000 - $1,200
3. before buying get it to a Jeep dealer for a scan including IIRC a MAP reading at idle. Others while have to weigh in as to the numbers but this will give you critical information on the condition of the rockers. If bad factor in new rockers and ARP studs in addition to the TB job. If good just drive after a TB job
4. have them pull the turbo side CAC hose and the airbox to turbo hose. Wiggle and pull the turbo "fan" if there is only a tiny amount of fore/aft play and barely perceptible to no side to side play the turbo is ok. If more turbo is on the way out; figure new turbo $1,200 plus 3 hrs labor.

Off hand I'd say $10K or so would be reasonable but if the above checks out $11K might be ok but that's just a guess.

I'd like to chime in here regarding the parts people are saying need immediate replacement.

First off, my '06 CRD has 163K miles on it. I've put about 83K of those on it.

The glow plugs are original.
The turbo is original.
The head Gasket is original.
It has the stock head bolts.
There are no indications of broken rockers.
I did the timing belt change in July 2012.

There is a big thing that some folks, I believe, may be overlooking regarding maintenance: driving habits.
-If you beat it like a rented mule, yeah, it is gonna have a boatload of trouble. If you want to drive like you have a sports car, buy one.
-If you drive it like you'd like it to last a while, it will.
-Conduct your regular maintenance.
-Get the ECO-Tune from Green Diesel (it shuts the EGR off something like 99% of the time)
-Use the correct oil, and change it quarterly (it is only 6.4 qts).
-Change your fuel filter (and air) annually.
-Keep it under 2,500 rpm at all times, including during acceleration. Your TQ peak is at 1,800 rpm. At 65 mph, you'll be turning under 2K RPM.

I know how to do the HG replacement with ARP stud replacement. I know how to inspect the rockers. I've done timing belt changes. Actually, I just did one of these jobs (all the above) a month ago.

I cannot express enough how much better these vehicles are when you get the ECO Tune. Note that if you move to the more aggressive HOT Tune, you will need to change the TQ converter and you will put more stress on the drive train. I do consider that a mandatory replacement part.

EDIT:
Mine isn't perfect. I have a few issues:
-Anti-drainback valve in transmission has failed. So I need to idle for 10 seconds on start-up so I have sufficient pressure to shift. No big deal.
-Passenger side power window doesn't like to be rolled down all the way.
-Knocked the passenger side view mirror off on side of garage door (oops)
-Transmission Shift assembly in cabin needs replacement.
-Intermittent Air bag light.
-Dirty as a f**cking H#LL.

And $12K is waaaay too much for one of these things.

:2cents:

pjigar · **Posted:** Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:12 pm

I think I would not pay more than $10,500 out the door for that car.

I have recently (1 month ago) bought a 2006 CRD with 91K miles for $9,700 out the door price from a dealer. I knew I had to spend some bucks on the maintenance. I went little over board with the "maintenance" but so far I have spent about $4,500 on parts for the following. If I only spent on real maintenance items then the parts cost would have been under $3,000.

Timing belt kit (belt, idlers, tensioner, serpentine, water pump) (idparts)
Inline thermostat housing and stat (amazon)
7V metal glow plugs (idparts)
Weeks 1 and 2 kits (sasquatchparts.com)
Silicone CAC hoses (idparts)
Intake hose to Turbo (idparts)
Alternator from (AutoZone)
In-tank fuel pump (ebay)
Marine fuel lines (?)
Newer model fuel head and harness (ebay)
ProVent 200 (idparts)
Transgo HD transmission kit (ebay)
Plastic radiator fan from 3.7L Liberty (ebay)
Hydan fan clutch (amazon)
Front suspension parts (upper control arms and lower ball joint - MOOG) (carid.com)
Lift kit - OME coils, struts and shocks (rocky road outfitters)
Front break pads and rotor (idparts)
Rear break pads (autozone)
air, fuel, and oils filters (fleetfilter.com)
Gates upper and lower radiator hoses (amazon)
All fluids (Gear, transmission, engine, collant) (various places)
Fumoto oil drain
Tools - Timing pins, Timing gear, Ball joint, coil spring (ebay)

Edit:
Base price was about $9,000.

thermorex · **Posted:** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:25 pm

papadocskj wrote:

Thank you all for the great insight and advice. Hopefully come Monday I can rejoin the kj family once again.

Thermorex, you said that I should use the arb bumber on the crd. But will it fit? Cause when I look it up it seems that when choosing to buy it it gives you option for 2002-2004 model year and then 2005-2007 model year which made me think that it wouldn't fit in the crd bein that my number was for a 2002 kj and the crd will be a 2006. If it can be put on that would make me happy. $1200 that didn't go to waste.

Honestly, I have never done such a thing. So I am not 100% sure. But I bet you can find the answers from the gasser modified forum, guaranteed somebody will know for sure. Fwiw, I don't see why it wouldn't work, the chassis should be the same, side fenders, front bumper and front grille, plus turn lights and fog lights. I believe those are not secured in the fenders and are part of the bumper.

papadocskj · **Posted:** Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:32 am

Interesting I will head to that part of the forum to find out if its possible with the bumper.

I went to the dealer to check out the kj today, it was in their shop aperantly they were replacing the turbo with a new one. And from what they said it has some sort of warranty. Not to sure exactly cause I was talking to the mechanic. The car itself looked like it was in really good shape. The engine compartment not so much but I am guessing that was due to the not so good hoses of the turbo. He was able to tell me though that the TB was not done. I will be heading back there hopefully tomorrow if its out of the shop.

dennyb · **Joined:** Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:27 pm **Posts:** 110

For comparison on price.
I bought a 05 sport with 94k miles last year at the end of July. It needed timing belt kit, alternator pulley, bad thermostat (I made a Ford inline conversion), front brakes, and tires. I paid 7200 from a starting price of 8000 on craigslist. My friend bought one this winter for 7600 off craigslist. His is a 06 limited with 104k miles. His needed timing belt kit, alternator pulley, bad thermostat (we put in my Ford inline conversion), no spare tire, and the rear hatch opener solenoid/latch was broken.

SFHLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:00 pm

flash7210 wrote:

Lastly, the EGR valve.
This has been known to cause some serious problems with CRD engine.
The only way to fix that is to get rid of it. Being that you live in CA and have to do emissions inspections this can be a problem.
Due to the ignorance of the inspectors, it may be possible to delete it all and they won't notice because they don't know what to look for. But there are ways to functionally delete the EGR while visually keeping things intact. This kind of EGR work you would have to do yourself because no shop in CA is going to knowingly remove a emissions control device from a vehicle.

You do not want to delete the EGR and cross your fingers in CA. You will get caught eventually. I say, confirm or do timing belt, do the GDE tune (which takes care of the EGR for you), change the oil at 6250 miles with synthetic diesel oil and that should make it somewhat reliable for you.

I highly suggest you snoop around this forum much more if you are considering this car. I'm not a mechanic, but very at least have become knowledgeable about all the potential pitfalls of this vehicle. I can do most basic maintenance myself, and probably more if time weren't an issue.

Good luck with your decision. Also, it's a great car for biodiesel if you're into that. It's plentiful in the Bay Area, so is Diesel HPR, another amazing new renewable biofuel-based new generation diesel fuel from Propel.

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