Should I buy this one? (06 Liberty CRD with issues)

muely · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:19 pm **Posts:** 5

Hi all,

Brand new to the forum here. I had a Powerstroke diesel for many years and am attempting to downsize and still be diesel powered :-)

. I'm looking at a 2006 liberty CRD 4x4 with 180,000 miles on it, and need advice on whether to spring for it or not. One owner, he reports mostly all highway miles. He says he hasn't had any trouble with it at all until recently: It blows black smoke and loses power at higher RPM (under load). It's throwing codes P1140 P0401 P0299 P0101. After doing some digging on this forum and reading Sam's CRD noob guide, it seems likely that it's got a split CAC hose. (I haven't seen the jeep yet in person). Would you all agree? What are the chances that if I replace the hoses I'd be "all good" (then follow it up later with some form of EGR delete and the other noob guide recommendations)? He's motivated to sell it as is. With that many miles running completely stock, has the engine suffered too much stereotypical gunk for too long (down the intake, etc)? Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks in advance. Oh, and he's been driving it this way on short trips off and on for the past few months. What are the chances that say for less than $1000 in parts it'd be a reliable road trip machine?

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:39 pm

It's always a gamble. But the cac hoses would be the first to check. Could possibly be a bad turbo. Also with 180k and no egr delete I'm sure the rockers are gonna need replaced.

muely · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:19 pm **Posts:** 5

Yeah, thanks. it comes with a new spare turbo -- he bought it years ago just in case and never installed. I Haven't read up on replacing the rockers -- how tough and expensive is that?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:53 pm

not too bad if you're good at following instructions, but the timing belt kit, rockers, and head studs are pretty much mandatory. All those parts will run about a grand, plus another few hundred for hoses, and then you'll probably need to replace a ton of other wear items. I'd plan on putting about $2k in it, and then you'll have most everything that's worn out replaced. That's the cost if you do it all yourself.

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

Checking the CAC hoses is always a good idea since they are a known failure point.

But all of those codes point to the EGR valve and the EGR flow control valve (FCV).

muely · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:19 pm **Posts:** 5

I see. Any rough guesses at how much life the engine might have in it as-is (after egr delete and other small upgrades)?

weeks101 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:29 pm **Posts:** 747

muely wrote:

I see. Any rough guesses at how much life the engine might have in it as-is (after egr delete and other small upgrades)?

Not from my chair here. But if you have an Android phone and a few bucks to spare, you can download an app from the Play Store and buy a $20 Bluetooth OBD2 scan tool (see links below), which will allow you to measure the MAF values at idle. It depends on your elevation, but if the rockers are good, you'll see readings between 15-18 g/s. If you see readings under 15 g/s, they are wearing, so look into replacing them. If you see values of 13 g/s or lower, they are toast. Again, depends on elevation.

Bluetooth adapter (~$20): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NLQAHS
Piston (free): https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... ston&hl=en
Torque Pro (~$5): https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... rque&hl=en

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:16 pm

If the timing belt has been replaced recently... Then you'd have to get some MAF readings, but the rockers may collapse any day now. Although, mine has 180k, and my MAF readings are good, but I'm replacing the rockers anyhow when I do the ARP studs.

If you don't do ARP studs, the head gasket will probably fail, and you might as well do the rockers at the same time, and a timing set. Do those 3 for a bit over a grand in parts, and it should be set for another 100k.

Not a low maintenance, low cost rig. The V6 version would be a better route if you just want something that you can drive without a ton of work. They also cost less in the first place.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:39 pm

Where is it / you located? It is very difficult to predict the answer without directly looking at it and coming back with more information, but the answers here so far are correct. These engines need a specific list of things to cure what ails them, and while it certainly hurts the wallet, I think that each of those things (rockers, studs, elbow kit, glow plugs, timing belt kit, hoses, head gasket - if there is a leak) should be addressed because the labor overlaps for most of that list.

There are some other things that could be looked at on any vehicle, but those are more "old car" things rather than CRD issues. Be comprehensive in inspecting the vehicle, and it can only help your negotiating position.

muely · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:19 pm **Posts:** 5

This is great and comprehensive information. Thanks. I'm in Southern California. I think it was bought new in nevada or utah and then spent most of its life in CA (CA plates / smog went fine). Altitude of the jeep is around 1,400 feet. I don't have an android phone, could I take it somewhere for the MAF readings? I assume cheap OBDII readers won't do it, right? It sounds like more than I'm wanting to get into, but will have a look at it tomorrow anyway -- will inspect the CAC hoses and pull the plug on the MAF sensor (ORM mod) to see if the smoke clears. He might let it go for less than $5k as is... I guess I want what everyone else in North America wants but can't have: A reasonably priced compact *diesel* "truck" or at least car with a little off-road in it (VW jetta/passat doesn't quite cut it). Is the Liberty CRD the only option out there newer than 1985 and smaller than a 3/4+ ton pickup?

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:25 am

They made the Grand Cherokee with the 3.0 Mercedes diesel in 07 and 08 I think, or I might be off one year on that. But, look to spend almost 20k for a nice one, or I've seen a couple with rebuilt titles for closer to 10k. They get a good bit less MPG's, but have more power and towing capacity, and a famously good engine...

I have a obd reader that was about $70, it plugs in to the port on the car, and it reads the MAF. You just have to convert the value. The program was part of the purchase, and it just needs a laptop with bluetooth to link to it. I guess there are smart phones, probably droids that will talk to it also, not sure, but OBD Wiz is the program.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:36 am

or, then again, there are a couple ones that look nice on ebay for about 13k. Maybe the dealers would offer a compelling warranty for major defects, unlikely I imagine...

muely · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:19 pm **Posts:** 5

Ok... This has been a great crash course in the Liberty CRD. So there's another one out there: 130k miles with the GDE tune installed. New timing belt. No current issues. So, assuming the GDE tune was installed a while back, would it follow there's a lot less crap in the engine (due to EGR delete via tune)? If a guy did the Newb Guide stuff on this rig, could he "expect" to put another 100k miles on it relatively worry-free? Maybe save up for rockers, studs, head gasket when the odometer got closer to 200k? I think it's just time to give up the dream and go buy an old Subaru Forester... Brewing bio diesel and feeding it to my 7.3 power stroke was quite fun while it lasted! :-)

Thanks everybody. Y'all really know this rig inside and out...

Rixram · **Posted:** Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:30 am

muely wrote:

Ok... This has been a great crash course in the Liberty CRD. So there's another one out there: 130k miles with the GDE tune installed. New timing belt. No current issues. So, assuming the GDE tune was installed a while back, would it follow there's a lot less crap in the engine (due to EGR delete via tune)? If a guy did the Newb Guide stuff on this rig, could he "expect" to put another 100k miles on it relatively worry-free? Maybe save up for rockers, studs, head gasket when the odometer got closer to 200k? I think it's just time to give up the dream and go buy an old Subaru Forester... Brewing bio diesel and feeding it to my 7.3 power stroke was quite fun while it lasted! :-)

Thanks everybody. Y'all really know this rig inside and out...

With the KJ CRD, you HAVE to know it. Most of the stealerships won't touch them, and if you find one that says they would, then don't use them, and they likely are going to F it all up, and charge you 6x what they should.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:06 pm

Rixram speaks the truth. There is a reason why people are willing to pay for my travel all across the country for me to come work on their CRD. The horror stories of what happens when someone goes to a dealership are many and varied, but all are the same: you shouldn't trust the dealership to give you the correct answer as to what day of the week is tomorrow. They will invariably screw it up.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:37 am

muely wrote:

Ok... This has been a great crash course in the Liberty CRD. So there's another one out there: 130k miles with the GDE tune installed. New timing belt. No current issues. So, assuming the GDE tune was installed a while back, would it follow there's a lot less crap in the engine (due to EGR delete via tune)? If a guy did the Newb Guide stuff on this rig, could he "expect" to put another 100k miles on it relatively worry-free? Maybe save up for rockers, studs, head gasket when the odometer got closer to 200k? I think it's just time to give up the dream and go buy an old Subaru Forester... Brewing bio diesel and feeding it to my 7.3 power stroke was quite fun while it lasted! :-)

Thanks everybody. Y'all really know this rig inside and out...

It is sort of like the old saying, "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it!"

If you have to ask whether or not to get a CRD the answer is NO! One does not buy this vehicle for a low-maintenance ride, but if you want the performance that the CRD offers and are willing to put in the time and effort, they are more than worth it. My wife LOVES hers. If you want low maintenance, better traction than a 2wd sedan and good fuel economy buy a Honda CRV.

Now if it were me, I'd buy the 130k with the GDE tune, do a one-by-one ARP stud replacement, put in a new alternator, serp belt and idlers, and enjoy running it, but that is me.

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:33 am

See these

are a labour of love, a mistress and an expensive hobby. Diesel engines like these are known to last but the bean counter DCJ engineering, the EGR and known fail points of these jeeps make it dicey. for any older jeep with history unknown here is the list of things that need to be done
1 timing kit $ 400
ARP head bolts 350
Weeks Kit 1 & 2 300
Rockers 375
thermostat 200
Glow plug 100
new turbo 1200
Torque converter 600
now optional stuff is GDE tune 600 fuel filter head $$ ? samco hoses 250 radiator hoses 150
and if you are like me you have to pay a lot of man hours at :dizzy:

pirces then you have some what reliable machine.

Rixram · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:28 pm

Srytrucker wrote:

See these

are a labour of love, a mistress and an expensive hobby. Diesel engines like these are known to last but the bean counter DCJ engineering, the EGR and known fail points of these jeeps make it dicey. for any older jeep with history unknown here is the list of things that need to be done
1 timing kit $ 400
ARP head bolts 350
Weeks Kit 1 & 2 300
Rockers 375
thermostat 200
Glow plug 100
new turbo 1200
Torque converter 600
now optional stuff is GDE tune 600 fuel filter head $$ ? samco hoses 250 radiator hoses 150
and if you are like me you have to pay a lot of man hours at :dizzy:

pirces then you have some what reliable machine.

I do not want to come off as harsh, so please bear with me. Why are you saying all this has to be replaced as soon as he gets it? I strongly disagree.
☼Don't drive like a maniac. This is a Diesel, not a gasser. If you want to hit 3,000+ revs a lot, then don't buy a diesel.
☼Yes, get a timing belt change, ABSOLUTELY. And yes, they are a reasonable do-it-yourself job if you have anough mechanical apitude to tell which end of the wrench to use. I am on my original water pump, having opted to not replace it. I will do it, however, at 200K miles.
☼If there is not a leaking head gasket, why replace the head bolts? -$350 I have 163K miles, and have no head gasket leak.
☼If you get the GDE ECO tune (the HOT tune is too aggressive IMO, and causes issues, like head gasket leaks), so the Weeks kit is unnecessary: -$300
☼Rockers? How about waiting until they fail? Again, 163K miles, and mine runs like a Swiss watch (knock on wood). -$375
☼Why in the name of whatever deity you like, would you replace a turbo that is working fine? -$1,200
☼The T-stats fail, but getting a full replacement is completely unnecessary. For $60, you can get an in-line T-stat, and it solves all the issues. (Hint: Yes, I did this).
http://www.amazon.com/Meziere-WN0072-In ... thermostat
☼Glow plugs: Yes, some folks have problems with them. I've not. YMMV
☼ECO tune is your best bet. With that, you shut your EGR off 95+% of the time (maybe as much as 99%, but I do not recall).
☼Torque Converter? Well, if you make the mistake (again, IMO) of getting the HOT tune, yes, replace the TQ converter. You're gonna blow the factory one apart, anyway. If you go for the ECO tune (I did), you should be fine. I have been. And I also do towing.

I have the ECO tune, and that thing was a deity-damn blessing. I installed it at 84K miles. I also have the GDE Transmission tune (F37 delete). The only time I get any shudder is when accelerating from the low-50-mph range *just* hard enough to not downshift. It dissipates by 60 mph.
I love the GDE products.

163,xxx miles (some of that while towing 5,000 lb boat):
GDE ECO Tune
GDE Trans Tune
Rotella T6
Original Turbo
Original rockers
Original head gasket/bolts
Factory defunct T-stat with an in-line T-stat replacement
Original TQ converter
Original glow plugs
No Weeks kit

I will note, however, that if you are concerned about the rockers, then replacing them during a timing belt job is ideal. When you get the cams locked in place, you're only adding 6-8 hours to the job anyway, depending on your level of mechanical aptitude. If you are going to replace the head bolts and gasket, this is also the time to do it, but understand that this does add a lot of time to the job. If you do all this, understand that this is going to take you a full weekend, starting on Friday evening. I just did one of these jobs a bit over a month ago for another LOST member, so the phrase "in my experience" is applicable.

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:03 am

Sir as a general rule there are exceptions we have seen people here with these jeeps well into 230-300 k with nothing more than a timing belt change or not. Then you hear about these incidents where engines randomly fail due to broken glow plug rocker wear etc. about head gasket bolts people are getting different torque reading when they replace them. Now if I had skills like you I would deal with stuff as it fails, for rest of us spend a little cash now rather than wait for it to fail. When things go south there is no telling how much damages are inflicted to this engine.
There has to be a reason that out of 25000 unit sold in North America 25% of them :dead:

in less than a decade where same engines in rest of the world are thriving.

YMMV is true in my humble opinion too, I am just venting out that after dealing with most fail point my tranny crapped out while the tech was taking test run at it . I will get the tranny fixed and only fail point in my jeep would be a 190 k old turbo so after spending all that cash should I take a chance with turbo or not oh well that is what I am trying to figure out.when these turbos go out lucky ones get away with replacing just that and other side I do not want to be there.

If there is a guarantee that turbo fails and you just replace the turbo I will take that . peace out brother and keep fixing these :JEEPIN:

. I wish one of you was on the west coast where we could take our :JEEPIN:

after a boo boo.

Rixram · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:20 am

Srytrucker wrote:

Sir as a general rule there are exceptions we have seen people here with these jeeps well into 230-300 k with nothing more than a timing belt change or not. Then you hear about these incidents where engines randomly fail due to broken glow plug rocker wear etc. about head gasket bolts people are getting different torque reading when they replace them. Now if I had skills like you I would deal with stuff as it fails, for rest of us spend a little cash now rather than wait for it to fail. When things go south there is no telling how much damages are inflicted to this engine.
There has to be a reason that out of 25000 unit sold in North America 25% of them :dead:

in less than a decade where same engines in rest of the world are thriving.

YMMV is true in my humble opinion too, I am just venting out that after dealing with most fail point my tranny crapped out while the tech was taking test run at it . I will get the tranny fixed and only fail point in my jeep would be a 190 k old turbo so after spending all that cash should I take a chance with turbo or not oh well that is what I am trying to figure out.when these turbos go out lucky ones get away with replacing just that and other side I do not want to be there.

If there is a guarantee that turbo fails and you just replace the turbo I will take that . peace out brother and keep fixing these :JEEPIN:

. I wish one of you was on the west coast where we could take our :JEEPIN:

after a boo boo.

My apologies if I come across like a jerk, but there were 10,500 KJ CRDs made, IIRC. There were 5,000 made in '05, and 5,500 made in '06.

If my numbers are wrong, please correct me.

Should I buy this one? (06 Liberty CRD with issues)

Who is online