My plan for a lift

Arkie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:16 pm

My Lib is high mileage and suspension is pretty tired. Instead of a kit, I've thought of gathering up a group of aftermarket parts for my rebuild.

This would include
MOOG new replacement springs for a 2005CRD, rated@ 2341lbs@ at a ride height of 9".(OE is 2165@3.85)

Monroe, or Rough Country shocks

JBA or Rocky Road ucas

Rocky Road "Under The Top" spacers

And probably 3ish conduit nuts

MOOG lower bj

Thoughts?

Bob

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:16 pm

Arkie wrote:

My Lib is high mileage and suspension is pretty tired. Instead of a kit, I've thought of gathering up a group of aftermarket parts for my rebuild.

This would include
MOOG new replacement springs for a 2005CRD, rated@ 2341lbs@ at a ride height of 9".(OE is 2165@3.85)

Monroe, or Rough Country shocks

JBA or Rocky Road ucas

Rocky Road "Under The Top" spacers

And probably 3ish conduit nuts

MOOG lower bj

Thoughts?

Bob

Thoughts ??
Well
I'd Rethink a few of the items
Not sure why the CRD springs, not any real lift to be gained at all
NO.......to the Rough Country shocks, way better ones out there look at Bilstein or Ironman as well as OME
ONLY Jeepinbyal upper control arms, better built, fit better, 200 times better customer service
NO..........to the under top top spacers from RRO unless you want issues down the road, not a good setup
What are you doing for the rear ?
lower ball joints, make sure you buy the greaseable ones

Arkie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:43 pm

OK, please understand I've been in the auto repair industry for a bit over 40years and understand just how few actual manufacturers there are. Ironman and Rough country are both built by Monroe. Bilstein are admittedly better, but certainly more expensive. Does anybody know who actually builds OME?

Total ignorance regarding the mentioned spacers, please give reasons they don't work?

Thoughts on CRD springs was not so much to lift, as to maintain ride after self built bumper, wintch, etc. additions.

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JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

JEEPINBYAL. PERIOD

Arkie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:00 pm

I can understand fans of a particular product line. You guys say JBA ctl arms,OK, they manufacture them,I'll bow to your group knowledge . Re-painted/boxed items such as the actual ball joints, and especially shocks, I'd much rather cut out the promoter and buy from actual manufacturer .

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tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:41 pm

Ironman built by Monroe ?
Monroe now builds shocks in Australia , didn't know that :wink:

Been working on junk since the 70s as well, some shocks are built better, don't care who builds them, Rough Countrys are just not that good of a shock.
Several of us have built, tested, drove, installed a lot of lifts etc on here. We've seen what happens with certain brands, we've seen what goes wrong with certain products etc
I've been on here sine 2004 , seen a lot of things tried that did not work.
The OTT spacer for one is just not a good way to get lift, hard on UBJs etc.
Some shocks work better with certain combinations, for CRDs the best is a full OME setup for example
But you asked for advice, we gave it
Good Luck on your build

Just a side note:
Not sure on exact number 4X4kayak for example has lifted so far, my count is over 30 KJs with one sitting / waiting on parts tomorrow. Plus there are other who have done quite a number of them.
We do have some idea on what we are talking about :wink:

OH and the CRD stock springs, if going with aftermarket/ home built bumper and winch most all of us go with the OME 790 springs rated at 500 lb. The 400 lb is ok with say just a bumper but not both together

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

If you wanna buy directly from the manufacturer contact Ironman, Old Man Emu, Bilstein.

I can guarantee you Bilstein shocks are not monroe.

Im not a "JBA fanatic" its just a one place stop shop. If the brand is not on his website then id think twice about buying it.

I have lifted over 12 KJ/KKs. From Texas to Florida to Tennessee. Walked a few over the phone on how to do it.

How i did my Ironman lift was buy the C springs from JBA, bought the Bilstein shocks from shock warehouse dot com with a coupon. And then installed it all myself (had a shop compress the springs) for under $600. But i went with all quality components and never looked back. Almost 100k on them and wife still loves the ride.

If you look back in my history i did a long type up on how a spacer lift will dystroy a IFS KJ

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:26 pm

Yeah I've only done Midwest KJs / KKs :wink:

Pennsylvania, Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois and Michigan
Longest distance was Seattle by phone, what a day that was telling a tech how to do it ( well was suppose to be a tech :lol:

)

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:13 pm

Back in the day, just before I started L.O.S.T. ... there were only PUCs ... they were terrible because the makers didn't realize the traits of IFS. I took out the spacers and cut them down from 2.5" to 1.5" and VIOLA...had a usable 2.25" or so lift. then I slid my Strut up in the clevis (without spacers-conduit nuts) and got a full 2.5". Then Clint (could be anywhere) and I (in Texas), along with All Js (Heather's Shop in Calif) worked on the setup which became known as the Frankenlift. This took a lot of trial and error...there is no reason to throw good money after bad these days.

Now

Can't really go wrong with an OME (or similar) setup to start with...Correctly Rated Springs with great Strut/Shock setup...

From there you can adjust the lift with the Clevis in the front and Extra Spring Isolators in the rear...

Upgrade LBJs to Moog...

Replace UBJ Arm with JBA...

Keep a close eye on the Rear Control Arm...design gets trashed fairly routinely IMO...

The above WILL GET YOU 2.25" TO 2.75" of lift with a better than stock ride...

This is the route I just took with my CRD and love it...

After that...just about anything higher...JBA...

Not saying something can't be re-designed by someone...but it would be hard to beat JBA's Adjustable Coils etc.

Yes, the price goes up as the Jeep goes up...law of economic physics

Arkie · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:04 pm

4X4kayak said; "If you look back in my history i did a long type up on how a spacer lift will dystroy a IFS KJ". Sorry sir, I did look back in your history and could never locate it, and would be really interested in doing so. Can you give me a bit more to go on?

Thank you all for your input.

Bob

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:23 pm

OTT Spacers (larger style) have issues and make IFS setups hard to align. Moving the whole strut down can also lead to issues with UCA contact.

Puc Spacers (larger) with stock springs and dampners ride terribly and don't add much offroad prowess. The Strut inserts are maxed out and the rear shocks have very little travel left.

Basically OTTs and SIMPLE PUCS are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to useable lifts.

ALL Lifts over 2.5" +/_ .5" lead to UCA contact (for sure at full droop)...alignment issues...too severe CVJoint Angles.

Even lifting the Straight axle in the rear 2.5" or more causes premature Control Arm wear without some kind of mods.

Until you drop the front diff...fabricate/purchase a rear control arm change...purchase longer travel struts/shocks...anything nearing 3" or more will be problematic.

WhitbyKJ · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:46 pm

A little while ago I found an article on ironman springs, it was the installation instructions.

In it was a term called "Motion Ratio" describing this without a picture is difficult so bear with with me.

Imagine the KJ body as the centre vertex of an angle. The midpoint on the lines are your struts and the outer points, the gap between your tire and your flare... Or lift if you will.

The KJ has a motion ratio similar to 2:1, so for one inch of spacer you get 2 inches of lift. The more you affect the middle distance in your angle the greater impact it has on the outside points. Not following? Lol I told ya it was hard without a pic.

My opinion is that too many spacers, because of their rigidity will cock the bushings in your strut mount and the bearings/bushings in whatever strut you use. The KJ was designed to have a spec range of motion, when you use an ott spacers you change pivot point for your strut and that just brings a world of hurt for your componants.

But like you stated, this truck is just a beater, so do whatever you want. But please do pay special heed to ubj contact... That unchecked, can and will kill you.

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:20 pm

Arkie wrote:

4X4kayak said; "If you look back in my history i did a long type up on how a spacer lift will dystroy a IFS KJ". Sorry sir, I did look back in your history and could never locate it, and would be really interested in doing so. Can you give me a bit more to go on?

Thank you all for your input.

Bob

There are numerous posts by different people over the years that " tried to show" the spacer lifts did not cause issues. 99% ended up with in a few months going full spring lift.
I got a 1.5 year old ARB back in 05 for 1/5 the price of a new one. Reason it was cheap? They lifted with a OTT spacer lift, 3 blown shocks on the right side, 2 on the left, I think 4 total upper control arms due to UBJ failure. They gave up , told me there was no way to safely lift a KJ. over 195,000 miles later my lifted KJ is still going and never had any of those issues :wink:

u2slow · **Joined:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:26 pm **Posts:** 160

I have the Teraflex front spacers (OTT style). Its a bit of a fight to put together, and simply could not assemble it with even one conduit nut in there. I tried again upon installing RRO arms (for 2" correction) and still no luck on the conduit nuts.

If I had a spring compressor, I may have better luck, but I'd be concerned about the clevis damaging the CV boot on droop since its already super close.

My plan for a lift

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