Fuel Issue: need ideas-FIXED

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:24 am

Okay, I've had a bad month with the CRD.

I'll forego discussing the other issues, and cut straight to the big issue: non-start

After replacing a radiator, I drove my CRD to work last Friday with no issues. When I went to leave in the evening: no start.

Engine cranked, but no joy. I did get an occasional sputter while cranking, but not enough to start it.

Got a flatbed to haul it home on Saturday, and replaced the filter assembly/manual prime pump (fuel filter head). Purged it, and it started fine. I did note that when replacing it, that the fuel filter was only half full. Note that I purged the lines up to the fuel filter head, then cracked the hose to the #1 cylinder to purge air from the fuel rail. Everything tight when done.

Drove Sunday evening, and through out Monday with no issues. None. Full power, started right up, etc.

This morning, ready for work: Non-start. Purged fuel head and fuel rail again. Non-start. Again, I got the occasional bump while cranking, like it wanted to start, but no joy. Tried cranking while using the manual pump, and still nothing.

I need some ideas. I'm missing work because of this thing, and I'm getting frustrated. What am I missing here? If it were the fuel pump, then Sunday and Monday would not have been possible.

I hate drawing a blank.

pjigar · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:38 am

Looks like you are getting air in the system somehow. I would start by replacing input side fuel lines to the pump: especially one from metal fuel line to head connection. This is a crimped connection to metal fuel line. You will need to make a lateral cut to cut the crimp sleeve only (be careful not to cut any part of the metal line). Then pry open the crimp with flat head screw driver. Watch or read some articles online on how to remove crimped fuel/transmission line. Replace the line with good marine fuel line and worm bands on both ends. You should also replace fuel head to CP3 pump fuel line just to be safe. If you still get the air the in the system then it must enter from connections near fuel tank. The best solution would be to install in-tank lift pump and replace the quick connect lines near the tank with proper fuel lines and worm band.

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:56 am

pjigar wrote:

Looks like you are getting air in the system somehow. I would start by replacing input side fuel lines to the pump: especially one from metal fuel line to head connection. This is a crimped connection to metal fuel line. You will need to make a lateral cut to cut the crimp sleeve only (be careful not to cut any part of the metal line). Then pry open the crimp with flat head screw driver. Watch or read some articles online on how to remove crimped fuel/transmission line. Replace the line with good marine fuel line and worm bands on both ends. You should also replace fuel head to CP3 pump fuel line just to be safe. If you still get the air the in the system then it must enter from connections near fuel tank. The best solution would be to install in-tank lift pump and replace the quick connect lines near the tank with proper fuel lines and worm band.

With the fuel filter being at half capacity when I changed the filter head, I suspect the issue may be between the Fuel filter head and the fuel tank. Does this sound like a reasonable assumption?

pjigar · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:00 am

Yes, but start from a crimped fuel line going from metal fuel line to fuel head, as I said. This one is easier to replace. The fuel head need to come off. Also replace fuel line going from fuel head to CP3 pump as a cheap insurance. If this does not cure then move to the tank (which is a lot of work to drop).

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:12 am

I didn't mess with undoing the crimp
I just used a small pipe cutter to cut the crimped end off completely.
Then just added my own 3/8 fuel line with new hose clamps.

In my case, the original rubber line was rubbing against a bracket and almost wore completely through.

Also, back at the tank, there is a coupling in the fuel supply line between the plastic line from the tank and the hard line on the frame. I cut that coupling out and replaced with 3/8 fuel line and new hose clams.

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:31 am

pjigar wrote:

Yes, but start from a crimped fuel line going from metal fuel line to fuel head, as I said. This one is easier to replace. The fuel head need to come off. Also replace fuel line going from fuel head to CP3 pump as a cheap insurance. If this does not cure then move to the tank (which is a lot of work to drop).

When you say

pjigar wrote:

start from a crimped fuel line going from metal fuel line to fuel head

, Do you mean the line going to the fuel pump on the engine, coming from the fuel head?

If I understand correctly, you are saying to cut out that supply line, and replace with 3/8" biodiesel grade rubber held by worm gears.

flash7210 wrote:

I didn't mess with undoing the crimp
I just used a small pipe cutter to cut the crimped end off completely.
Then just added my own 3/8 fuel line with new hose clamps.

In my case, the original rubber line was rubbing against a bracket and almost wore completely through.

Also, back at the tank, there is a coupling in the fuel supply line between the plastic line from the tank and the hard line on the frame. I cut that coupling out and replaced with 3/8 fuel line and new hose clams.

The coupling you refer to, will it directly support having a 3/8" hose directly connected? And is the hard line okay to attach3/8" hose over and clamp?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:40 am

Yes.
I just slipped 3/8 fuel line over the hard lines and clamped.

pjigar · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:11 am

flash7210 wrote:

Yes.
I just slipped 3/8 fuel line over the hard lines and clamped.

I choose to un-crimp the hard line because there is a little bump on the fuel hard line which allows secure connection. Notice the bump just ahead of the band in this picture:

This is the first line you should start with. Next is the line going from the fuel head to the CP3 pump.

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:18 pm

pjigar wrote:

flash7210 wrote:

Yes.
I just slipped 3/8 fuel line over the hard lines and clamped.

I choose to un-crimp the hard line because there is a little bump on the fuel hard line which allows secure connection. Notice the bump just ahead of the band in this picture:

This is the first line you should start with. Next is the line going from the fuel head to the CP3 pump.

Oh, that is perfect: thanks, fellas! I have the Jeep up on stands now, and am calling a taxi to get me to the auto parts store...
:pepper:

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:24 pm

much to my chagrin, after changing out all of the fuel lines, I still have a no start condition. I have also added an inline fuel pump. there is a fuel coming out of the fuel filter assembly when the valve is cracked and the key is in the run position.

it appears as though we may not be looking at a fuel supply issue.

the timing belt was replaced 40,000 miles ago, in 2012.

I am open to suggestions as to where to look next.

pjigar · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:46 pm

Have the battery tested. If voltage is low then you will get crank but no start. It seems ECU needs full voltage to make all systems run properly.

Any DTC codes in ECU?

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:05 pm

pjigar wrote:

Have the battery tested. If voltage is low then you will get crank but no start. It seems ECU needs full voltage to make all systems run properly.

Any DTC codes in ECU?

I'd cranked it down to nothing, so the charger is already on it.

The only code is transmission related. Nothing to effect the engine.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:09 pm

Rixram wrote:

much to my chagrin, after changing out all of the fuel lines, I still have a no start condition. I have also added an inline fuel pump. there is a fuel coming out of the fuel filter assembly when the valve is cracked and the key is in the run position.

it appears as though we may not be looking at a fuel supply issue.

the timing belt was replaced 40,000 miles ago, in 2012.

I am open to suggestions as to where to look next.

Crankshaft position sensor is one possibility. Sometimes they go bad without any warning.

Rixram · **Posted:** Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:14 pm

flash7210 wrote:

Rixram wrote:

much to my chagrin, after changing out all of the fuel lines, I still have a no start condition. I have also added an inline fuel pump. there is a fuel coming out of the fuel filter assembly when the valve is cracked and the key is in the run position.

it appears as though we may not be looking at a fuel supply issue.

the timing belt was replaced 40,000 miles ago, in 2012.

I am open to suggestions as to where to look next.

Crankshaft position sensor is one possibility. Sometimes they go bad without any warning.

How do I test that?

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:29 am

what in the ever-loving hell? it just started up. it spent all night on a battery charger.

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:57 am

pjigar wrote:

Have the battery tested. If voltage is low then you will get crank but no start. It seems ECU needs full voltage to make all systems run properly.

Any DTC codes in ECU?

well, it started this morning. how confident are you that it fully charged battery would solve this? by that, I mean permanently solve this.

naturist · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:11 am

Just for what it is worth, since you've taken care of air-in-fuel issue, and a fully charged battery seems to have at least temporarily solved the no-start issue, I'd consider the possibility that either the battery is on it's last legs or that you have a parasitic electrical draw draining it.

A couple years ago mine developed such a draw. It would completely kill the battery in 2-3 days, and make it just weak enough it wouldn't start in just over a day. I have yet to figure out exactly what the issue is because it comes and goes. I put an ammeter on it, and see that there is a 7 amp draw that seems to turn on and off at random times, which is perhaps why it is hard to track down.

I finally installed a battery cut-off switch in frustration, and now when I park it for more than an hour or two, I disconnect the battery with the result that it starts every time, even after a two-week stay at an airport parking lot.

In any case, some folks have found that the glow-plug relay sometimes caused a parasitic draw (not the culprit in my case, having replaced it). But you might look for such a draw.

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:41 am

naturist wrote:

Just for what it is worth, since you've taken care of air-in-fuel issue, and a fully charged battery seems to have at least temporarily solved the no-start issue, I'd consider the possibility that either the battery is on it's last legs or that you have a parasitic electrical draw draining it.

A couple years ago mine developed such a draw. It would completely kill the battery in 2-3 days, and make it just weak enough it wouldn't start in just over a day. I have yet to figure out exactly what the issue is because it comes and goes. I put an ammeter on it, and see that there is a 7 amp draw that seems to turn on and off at random times, which is perhaps why it is hard to track down.

I finally installed a battery cut-off switch in frustration, and now when I park it for more than an hour or two, I disconnect the battery with the result that it starts every time, even after a two-week stay at an airport parking lot.

In any case, some folks have found that the glow-plug relay sometimes caused a parasitic draw (not the culprit in my case, having replaced it). But you might look for such a draw.

I do know there is an electrical leak somewhere. I am taking the nattery to be tested shortly.

pjigar · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:45 am

Rixram wrote:

pjigar wrote:

Have the battery tested. If voltage is low then you will get crank but no start. It seems ECU needs full voltage to make all systems run properly.

Any DTC codes in ECU?

well, it started this morning. how confident are you that it fully charged battery would solve this? by that, I mean permanently solve this.

Best to have battery tested at any auto parts store before you replace it. The battery suggestion is based on other posters reporting similar observation. So my confidence is based on anecdotal posts.

SargeIndustries · **Posted:** Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:26 pm

If you have a factory trailer harness added to your vehicle you may want to check all the relays within it. They are located at the right rear of the vehicle behind the interior plastic. They are all wrapped up in a black cloth bag. The relay that provides trailer power was warm and causing my battery draining problems. I simply removed the relay and all is good now.

Fuel Issue: need ideas-FIXED

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