Did Timing belt change

Diehard Ram · **Joined:** Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:00 pm **Posts:** 10

Changed timing belt now won't run unless you give it throttle. And it smokes at idle. And runs ruff. I watched the video on line, made timing marks. Rented the tools. Did everything like it said in the video. I started it up like it said to, to check it. I have it all tore down. Is there a sensor that needs plugged in to make it run. Or did I mess up along the way?

Diehard Ram · **Joined:** Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:00 pm **Posts:** 10

I also replaced the water pump. So I had the cam gears off. But all the timing marks lined back up when I put it back together.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:02 pm

did you spin it by hand two full revolutions and make sure the pins went back in the cams with the crank witness mark at 3 o'clock?

Sometimes it the smaller of the two sensors on the air box.

Diehard Ram · **Joined:** Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:00 pm **Posts:** 10

No I didn't do it that way. I rotated it the first time when I started to put the pins in the intake & exhaust. I also put the one in the flywheel. And then tore it all apart. I left them in when I put it back together. I made sure the pins unscrewed easily when I was done.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:29 pm

I'm guessing you were off a tooth, which shouldn't have hurt anything. Just set it up again by pinning the cams and make sure the witness is exactly at 3, and the holes on the crank pulley are perfectly horizontal and vertical. Then, after you put the belt on and get everything back together. Turn it over exactly 2 full revolutions, and make sure the cam pins go in without more than a slight bump of movement on the crank either way.

When you bump it, you're moving the crank like a hair. The witness should still look like it's at 3 and the holes still look vertical/horizontal. The witness is so hard to see that I usually ignore it, and just pay attention to the holes.

If the pins go back in pretty easily after the two turns, it is safe to start for a quick verification that it runs well.

I also ignore the crank pin entirely...

Diehard Ram · **Joined:** Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:00 pm **Posts:** 10

Ok thanks. I'll try that and see what happens

Diehard Ram · **Joined:** Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:00 pm **Posts:** 10

It looks like it's a tooth off. Intake cam pin went in good here. Exhaust had to be moved a little back to get it in. Now it's less than a tooth off when I moved it back to get the pin in the exhaust. Now the crank is horizontal and vertical. So, what do I need to do to get this thing correct?
This is my first time doing this. So please explain in simple terms.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:11 pm

I think you need to treat this from scratch as an engine that's out of time. By that I mean you marks are meaningless since you say you removed and reinstalled the cams. For a how to get it back in time I'd suggest sending a PM to geordi or SirSam. I think I know how but...

As part of this you will probably need to at least rotate the cams to get a feel for whether the rockers are ok although pulling the valve cover to be sure would be better.

EDIT - perhaps I should have been clearer. After removing the timing belt it might be worth rotating the cams to see if you can "feel" whether or not the rockers are good. That said pulling the valve cover would be a better way to check.

Brasher · **Joined:** Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:02 pm **Posts:** 80

I JUST READ THE POST ABOVE ME. DO NOT DO THAT! An engine that is one camtooth tooth out of time will not touch valves. However spinning camshafts independently of the bottom end will.

Based on your picture it seems you have an extra tooth between the cam gears.

The only marks that matter on this engine are the injector pump and and crankshaft notch (should be at 3'oclock position). As long as the Intake, Exhaust, and Crankshaft pins are in place the engine is in time.

Here is what I do:

1) Make sure the Crankshaft notch is at 3'oclock position. Install Intake, Exhaust, and Cranksaft pins. It helps to remove the oil filler cap and sight the Intake Pin Hole through the filler neck. The Intake pin needs to go in with minimal effort. Once the Intake pin is in it is okay to "help" the Exhaust pin seat with a wrench if needed.

2)Release the tension on the belt. Remove belt.

3)Install the Camgear locking tool. (I assume you have the Miller tool).

4) Break loose Camgear bolts.

5) Install timing belt. I start with the Intake camgear, and work my way counterclockwise. Don't forget to align the Injector Pump!

Here is the "trick"

6) Reinstall the camgear tool. Tighten the tool thumbscrews as much as you can. This should rotate the Camgears away from each other, stretching the timing belt between the gears. The timing belt should be tight at the top between the camgears. (If it is loose in this area, you have an extra tooth between the two gears.) Tighten the camgears to torque specifications. I like to put medium loctite on these bolts.

7) Remove camgear tool.

Adjust camshaft tensioner and torque bolt to spec. The spring wire should be aligned with the left corner of the left notch. If the spring wire is inside the "window", it is too loose. This is covered in the Service Manual. I know, makes no sense. Trust me, this isn't the only poorly engineered aspect of this engine.

9) Remove Exhaust, Intake, and crank pins. Turn engine over 2 revolutions. Check Timing belt tension and adjust as necessary. Usually you have readjust at least once.

10) Reinstall Intake, Exhaust (and if you want crank) Pins, to confirm Engine is in time. Remove Pins and continue.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:55 pm

Probably great advice above, but I'm too tired to comment on it.

First, I'd forget about your marks, I've never used any. I don't even pay any attention to the notches on the cam gears. Like it was said above, the only marks that matter are the Fuel pump, and the crank witness (but I only use that as far as making sure it's off to the right, or 3 o'clock).

I would start by putting the crank witness to really close to 3. Then pin the cams if you can by moving the crank back and forth a little. If they both don't go in, that's ok.

Now, remove the tensioner and belt, and if one of the cams isn't pinned, move the cam forward or back with the gear bolt, or vise grips, channel locks, whatever you like, until the pin goes in. The cam will jump around, but you will get a feel for it. If anything feels like it's solidly bound, don't force it.

Now, make sure the crank holes are vertical and horizontal, and reinstall the belt clockwise starting at the crank. The fuel pump is tricky, but if you put it a little before or after the mark (I forget which), it will move into position when tensioned.

Now, with the belt installed and some tension on it, you can lock torque the gears. Most do this with the pins out, I don't, so I won't comment on the exact way you should do this. but, get the gears torqued, make sure pins are out, and rotate it exactly 2 revolutions, insert cam pins by slightly bumping the crank back and forth. They have very fragile threads, so it shouldn't take much to get them in, and I can usually put them in with my fingers unless the threads are damaged.

If the pins go in, and the crank looks exactly vertical/horzontal, you are good to start it if everything is torqued and tensioned right.

Oh, I usually have to readjust the tensioner a time or two. I try to rotate it with some force to stretch the belt a hair to get a better adjustement on the tensioner. After you run it, you'll probably have to adjust the tensioner again, but I'm kind of OCD about that...

dirtmover · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:56 am

Brasher wrote:

The spring wire should be aligned with the left corner of the left notch. If the spring wire is inside the "window", it is too loose. This is covered in the Service Manual. I know, makes no sense.

Actually it does make sense, this is the cold setting. Other manufacturers e.g. Volvo actually show cold, normal and hot settings for their tensioner in the service manual. If you recheck at operating temperature the spring tang will be in or the the right of the window.

Brasher · **Joined:** Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:02 pm **Posts:** 80

Volvo specifies cold(left of window), room temperature (inside window), and hot positions (right of window). VM does not.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:57 am

hmm, I wonder if I tension one in a cold garage if the belt will fail sooner due to being too loose? That would be lame. I'll have to try one cold and see how the belt looks when it's up to temp.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:10 pm

Brasher wrote:

6) Reinstall the camgear tool. Tighten the tool thumbscrews as much as you can. This should rotate the Camgears away from each other, stretching the timing belt between the gears. The timing belt should be tight at the top between the camgears. (If it is loose in this area, you have an extra tooth between the two gears.) Tighten the camgears to torque specifications. I like to put medium loctite on these bolts.

7) Remove camgear tool.

Adjust camshaft tensioner and torque bolt to spec. The spring wire should be aligned with the left corner of the left notch. If the spring wire is inside the "window", it is too loose. This is covered in the Service Manual. I know, makes no sense. Trust me, this isn't the only poorly engineered aspect of this engine.

Not sure about the order here either. The VM tool ensures that the belt is taught between the cams but doesn't guarantee that the belt is held taught between the right hand cam and crank. I'd suggest that the tensioner is set prior to step 6 rather than at step 8. That is how I did it anyway but since I wasn't using the VM tool I was also relying on the tensioner to keep the belt taught over the cam pulleys while I torqued the bolts while holding the cam pulleys using my home made counter hold tool.

Mountainman wrote:

hmm, I wonder if I tension one in a cold garage if the belt will fail sooner due to being too loose?

Alone, I doubt it, but it could be a contributing factor alongside other component wear.

Hexus · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2015 8:30 pm

If your crank is pinned correctly, with the correct tool, it will not "BUMP" a hair either way, it won't move at all.

This is why I recommend speaking with someone who is familiar with (5x or more) this job and having them talk you through the process, or having them do it with you in person, or do it for you for money.

You need to remove the tensioner, remove the belt, and start over insofar as just adjusting your belt. If you ran it with it a tooth or more off, then you have probably destroyed/damaged the rockers.

Timing marks on the Cam Sprockets are worthless, the only timing on the cams are done with the pins that insert through the intake.

I don't even mark the Crank any more, it's unnecessary.

Did Timing belt change

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