I have a 2006 Liberty CRD with 200K miles on it. I'm thinking of adding some aftermarket upgrades but I'm not sure it is worth the money or should I just buy another vehicle. The engine is having some issues and needs some work (Black smoke when accelerating, Glow Plug under voltage, no power when accelerating) I believe the black smoke and no power is caused by the turbo vacuum modulator because when I bypass it the power is back and not much black smoke. Does anyone have a list of upgrades and approximate cost so I can make a decision?

At 200,000 miles your engine will be due for another timing belt change.
First one should have been done at 100,000 miles.

Read the noob guide and clean or replace your MAP sensor.

Now, with your turbo, what are you bypassing?
There are two vacuum solenoids that control the turbo. Figure out which one is bad and replace it.

IDparts.com is a good source for parts.
Get it running right first, then decide what upgrades are necessary.

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U.S. Army Retired

The only thing that I would say is absolutely needed is a Green Diesel Engineering (GDE) tune which will run you around $500.

Other than that, you can see a good amount of the common mods in my sig for mods. Most of the mods besides the GDE tune are preventative, mean fixing an issue that may come up or has come up. Each of them seems to have made the jeep run incrementally better and at this point its running very smooth. Other than the GDE tune I would suggest:

Lift Pump - seems to help with starting, especially in the winter. Smoother idle - ~$200
Weeks Stage 1 kit - because it makes changing glow plugs a breeze - $225
4J T-stat - because the stock t-stat housing sucks and inline tstats are questionable - ~$450?

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2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs

your rockers and timing belt are probably ticking time bombs. They run about $360, and then you'll want to add $350 worth of head studs, so the gasket never leaks, timing set is $450.

Basically plan on $1500 - $2000 to make it last long term. And then, your turbo is likely toast $1100, all suspension bushings, various bearings, alternator etc.

So, to make it REALLY reliable, you'll spend easily $3k, but it won't break down on you then. If you have to pay someone for the labor, almost double that number to $5k or more... Not a good vehicle unless you can do the work yourself.

I have probably put $3500 in mine, but the labor was free, kinda. But, it's more reliable than when it was new.

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

Wow great posts. I did the timing belt at 160k and that included all the parts including the water pump. I replaced the turbo about 10k ago so I think it is good. it sounds like I need to do the following

overhead from what I read about $900
CDE tune $500
Lift pump $200
Shocks bushings and other suspension work $???

I read earlier in this forum about a EGR bypass and also the touge converter.

My guess from all this is about $3500. I still think it is worth it because I need a four wheel drive and I drive a lot of mile in snow country. With the cost of anew rig this seems the cheapest. Also I like the size and off road and I cAN still drive 80 on the freeway.
Thanks for the information!

You can go with an inline lift pump for about $40. All of the suspension stuff can run over $1k if you upgrade, or just do the bushings and spend less than $500. The bushings are tricky with a press if you don't have all of the special adapters. I ended up making some, and they were still a challenge. Dangerous truth be told.

With the turbo behind you and timing set, you can have it going for less than $2k easy.
You can wait on the rockers, but they will most likely break, and then you could drop a valve, but probably not if you shut it off right away and tow it...
The biggest danger is if you break just one rocker and don't notice, you can drive on and drop a valve. I just opened one up for a head gasket, and there was a broken rocker. I only ran it at idle and slightly higher, driving it around the driveway to move it, and didn't hear anything at all! Maybe I would have noticed it at higher RPM's, not sure. It was on the exhaust side.

You can get the torque converter for $2-250 or less if you want to try an off-brand. Or get a hemi one from the junk yard for $50? Just need to drop the transmission, but you'll want this if you get the GDE tune, otherwise it will probably shudder in certain situations which sucks.

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

Why would a broken rocker drop a valve?

In my experience (and trust me I've had numerous broken rockers), the rockers fall apart and disperse their little pieces across the head and into the crankcase. All of my valves looked (and are) perfectly fine. I suppose one of the arms or bearing housings could lodge itself into the adjacent rocker assembly, but that wouldn't drop a valve, it would "just" bang a valve.

You can have up to 8 broken rockers and still run "okay".

I've heard of about 3 broken rockers causing the valve to drop. Or then again, you're probably right, it probably pushes the valve down, and then the piston smacks it so hard that the keeps are ejected/busted, and then it drops. Or it snaps it off.
The one I just pulled had a stamp on the rocker from the top of the valve. Snapped the rocker in half. I'm having the machine shop check that valve to make sure it's still strait, otherwise it would eventually snap and drop. Maybe that's how they drop also.
It's pretty rare, but if you are the lucky one, the repair bill is in the thousands. To make it worse, they aren't selling the old weight pistons, and the rods only come in matched sets. So, if you don't want to spend a fortune, you get an old used piston, and an old rod, and get a machine shop to match the rod. but, now you have to disassemble the other rods from pistons, or at least one... This is why new rockers are cheap insurance

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

To your question, my biggest question back to you is this: how long has the EGR been disconnected? If you just disconnected it at 160k then absolutely no way would I keep it or put another dime into it. The engine is probably destroyed from soot. Now, if the EGR was at least shut off (Off road mod) at 100k or earlier, there's hope. I think at a minimum I'd want a compression / leakdown test done (have to pull injectors), and check rocker condition (this can be done with an engine monitor) before going any further down the yellow brick road. I love mine, but I've seen what this BS EGR emissions technology does to engines of all manufacture, and I would never buy an engine that had been running with functioning EGR for more than 75k miles at the most. I've seen powerstrokes, duramax, even John Deere tractor engines absolutely ruined by EGR at 100k miles / 5000 hours. Truth be known we should all be marching on the EPA with torches and pitchforks.

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The fuel savings from my engine modifications should pay for those modifications in about 250,000 miles

No, we should blame Chrysler. They should have put in place the software to only enable the EGR when the vehicle is being tested for emissions

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Share your ideas freely at https://www.facebook.com/groups/libertydiesels/

Go VW!

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

Where's that "Like" button?

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The fuel savings from my engine modifications should pay for those modifications in about 250,000 miles

"Where's that "Like" button?"

What's a LIKE button?
Nah, I know, but I wish I was in remote AK and didn't know... Well, not in the winter

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05 CRD: H.D.S2 stat,WW Ironrock trilink&LCA's, OX rear,ARB front, 4.10's, ARB bumper, Suncoast,OME 3.5, JBA UCA,rock rails, Moabs&265/75 Duratracs, GDE tunes ,FFD fan,ARP's, 2 micron fuel, new valves,sasquatch battery tray & grid heater, tensioner relocated
Mech fan, VH & AC delete

I have been working on my jeep but I still have black smoke.
Egr delete
Replaced vacumin control cyliniods
Replacel map sensor
replaced turbo hoses
When I bypass the vacumn control cyneniods the jeep runs good no black smoke but will drop to limp home mode if I climb hills or accelorate hard.
With the control hooked back up the jeep smokes when accelelerating and loss of power. I get the underboost code and the egr code (egr is gone).

I rrally do not know what else to try

Randy

I'm not sure how you did the bypass, but it sounds like you bypassed both solenoids and ran vacuum straight to the turbo actuator. Which will keep the turbo at high boost, throw a over-boost code, and set it into limp mode.
If the solenoids and vacuum lines are all properly connected and not leaking, and you still get under-boost, then I suspect that the vanes in the turbo are stuck.
Here is how to check:
1. make sure all the vacuum lines are properly connected and start the engine and let it idle.
2. pull the vacuum line off the turbo and make sure that you have strong vacuum from that line.
3. reconnect the vacuum line.
4. now, look down between the turbo and the engine. You should see a rod connecting the vacuum actuator to a small lever on the turbo. Disconnect the vacuum line and watch the rod drop. Then reconnect the vacuum line and watch the rod pull up. If the little lever on the turbo is not getting full movement then the vanes are stuck and should be cleaned.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

Thank you for the reply. I forgot to mention when I started this project the Jeep started blowing black smoke so I was working on it and discovered oil in the turbo hoses when I was changing them so I replaced the turbo at that time.

I did what you said below and it looks like the turbo is working correctly. I have the stuff to measure pressure and vacuum does anyone know the specs for the vacuum so I can see if there is a problem with the vacuum pump. the funny thing is I bypassed the vacuum solenoid and the vacuum control one at a time and it made no difference on the black smoke so I bypassed them both and the jeep runs good with no black smoke. I then pulled the little filter off the bottom of the vacuum control and capped it and the jeep ran good with no smoke and that is with both the solenoid and the control hooked up. This is leading me to believe the problem is with whatever is setting the boost pressure is not giving the correct reading.

Can the throttle position sensor cause it to not give enough boost? Maybe the ECU is bad. I have the old turbo and was thinking about rebuilding it and reinstalling it to see if the new turbo is not working correctly.


Randy

Wow... You are throwing money away working on this because you are doing things that are defeating the purpose of each device and not catching what your actions are causing.

First thing: Oil in the turbo inlet MEANS NOTHING AT ALL about the turbo. Sorry, but you threw away a probably-perfectly-fine turbo on the same bad observation that many dealers have used to justify spending a customer's money. The oil comes from the CCV and not the turbo. It is annoying, but completely normal. Don't overfill your oil when you do an oil change (use 6.4 quarts for the stock filter or 7 quarts for the M1-301 Mobil one oversize filter or an equivalent) and mark your dipstick with the correct "full" level. If you exceed this, the oil comes out the CCV into the intake. Sorry you spent that money.

Your ECU is not bad if the engine starts. Don't spend that money, it will be wasted.

Your throttle position sensor is the accelerator pedal. Drive by wire. If the truck moves under its own power and not in limp mode, then you do not have a problem here. There are two sensors in the pedal and if they don't agree, then the truck goes into limp mode AND a code will be set. Don't waste that money.

The two solenoids on the vacuum box are both controlling the vacuum to the turbo. If you have ANY vacuum, then you have a good vacuum pump, no need to mess with that either. Don't waste that money.

Those two solenoids provide two different services. The smaller one keeps vacuum in the box when the engine is shut down, so the turbo is able to spin up faster. It is not technically required and it is only an on-off solenoid. The solenoid with the air filter has a critical purpose: To let the vacuum go away so that your boost can be controlled. YOU NEED THAT LITTLE FILTER PORT OPEN. You can get another little filter - the Purolator cheap fuel filters from any auto parts store can be used, just find one that looks like it will fit and use that. $4.

Here is why your CRD has been smoking: Your EGR is probably stuck partly open. Even when they are unplugged (off road mod) they do NOT seal completely, and allow boost to leak out into the exhaust. Less boost equals less air than the computer is expecting for the fuel it is injecting, and that makes smoke.

You need a complete blocking plate for the EGR port, the Weeks elbow kit is the preferred method. If you haven't ever replaced your boost hoses, then 99% probability that they are rotten through from the NORMAL CCV OIL contamination, that eats through the hoses and makes them porous. If the outside of the hose is "growing hairy filth" then that is your indication. Obviously holes are also a good indicator of a problem too, but you will have to remove the hoses to find them usually. The airbox to turbo hose will also be rotten from the oil, expect to need to replace this if you haven't already.

As far as the rockers and studs and timing belts - Rockers are the designed failure mode of the engine if piston meets valve, and I have not heard of a single one that has subsequently dropped valves after the rockers did their job properly. That is not to say that it hasn't happened, but it would be the first I have heard of it. If the timing jumps, the pistons meet the valves and shoves them back upwards, cracking the rocker in half at the camshaft roller. This is to protect the valve and the impact force is straight up, there shouldn't be any more than one hit per valve, and that shouldn't be off-angle enough to cause any damage to the valve itself.

I have replaced broken rockers in a number of CRDs and they are all still on the road today. The studs are to solve a head gasket leak, if you have to add coolant (coolant alarm) then that is the leak making itself known. If you don't have coolant alarms every few weeks, GOOD. Now is the time to install the studs and prevent that problem from ever happening.

You sound like you do a lot of wrenching, but in case you aren't confident in your experience with the specific quirks and strange design of this motor, I offer a complete service of installing the studs, replacing the rockers, installing the Weeks elbow, bypassing the coolant leaks (from the EGR), metal glow plugs, and a full timing kit with all-metal water pump. All of this parts and labor together is $3500, but parts are about $1700 of it. I can do the work in usually just one day, and I've done over 60 CRDs now. Certainly if you want to do it yourself you are welcome to, I am just making myself available if time is an issue.

The glow plugs... If you still have the ceramic plugs, those have to come out *now* because they can and have destroyed MANY engines. THAT causes valves to drop, those dang plugs fracture and spray fragments all over the cylinders, and the bits get jammed in the valves and hold them open. Very very bad.

I hope I have just saved you some money, it sounds like your CRD is still in pretty decent shape, no reason at all why some simple fixes and upgrades can't keep it on the road for many more years. As for the suspension components or anything else - that is all "Normal Jeep Stuff" and not CRD specific, and any of those things can be fixed on an as-needed basis, rather than worrying about them right now. The critical stuff relates to the big service package.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

If you want to make a block off plate for a test to eliminate ANY boost leak-by that can be placed between the EGR valve and ERG tube until you can maybe get a Weeks kit; these are the dimensions:
Can be made out of any ~22 - 14 gauge sheet metal! I would not use aluminium !!!



Install instructions located here:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76576&hilit

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount
98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve

Do you still have the old turbo?
Where did you get the new turbo from? Is it factory NEW, or reman?

Aside from the possibility of the EGR being stuck open, its possible that the vacuum actuator is not adjusted properly. If its a factory new turbo from Garret then this should not be the case. But if its a reman from ??? then who knows?
I dont know exactly how to adjust it, but the actuator rod has an adjustment nut on it.

I would investigate the possibility of the EGR being stuck open first before making any adjustments to the turbo.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired

Thanks again for all the replies
The Turbo is a Garret new $1200 for the turbo the old turbo was making noise and putting out a lot of oil. I had to remove the turbo cooler and drain it. I still have the old turbo and was thinking of getting a rebuild kit for it and trying to see if I can make it work. I took the EGR off and used the EGR delete kit to get rid of it. I have spent about 1800 on this jeep trying to get it to quite blowing black smoke. The turbo was bad so I had to replace it anyway so I do not count that as money wasted. The EGR delete is a must anyway so that 300 is also not wasted. The replacement MAP and turbo solenoid and control did not help anything so that 200 was wasted. Not bad considering I was just throwing parts at it to try and solve the problem. Oh I forgot the new turbo hoses I replaced and those I think were 200 but that is also not money wasted because the old hose was split. And I put a hose and filter on the unit that comes from the top of the engine that puts oil in the intake and blocked of the line from that unit to the intake to the turbo.

I'm still confused by the problem. If I bypass the turbo control the jeep runs great lots of power and no smoke so I do not see how the valves or the turbo could be bad. I know this is over boosting the system so I do not run it this way.

One thing that I did do before this all started was replace the diesel filter could I have a problem with the filter that is causing this? I really do not see how but I might pick one up just to try.

This jeep is not my only car so I do not mind working on it and I think all the expensive parts other than the lifters have been replaced so If I can figure this out I will keep it a long time.

Randy