semi-automatic transmission in KK

Demiourgos · **Joined:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:49 pm **Posts:** 7

Hi everyone,
I am just about to buy my first off road worthy suv and I would love to have a Jeep KK.

One of things that concerns me is the transmission. I want to have the comfort of automatic transmission but also semi-automatic sequential is a huge plus because I want to have a control of gears I use.

I noticed that Cherokee KK Diesel has a semi-automatic gearbox. (see +/- near Drive mode)
Does any petrol KK has such transmission?

Scar0 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:28 pm

That would be the NAG1 trany (AKA W5A580). I believe the bell housing is a different bolt pattern with the 2.8 CRD, 3.7 and the 4.0 petrol. Not to mention the computer programming would have to be fixed, if that is even possible.
I know in the KA the NAG1 trany sits behind the 4.0 petrol and the 2.8 CRD.
Looking at the part# for the bell housings, the 2.8 and 3.7 manual trany (NSG370) share the same#. The 4.0 does not share any bell housing # with either the 3.7 or 2.8.
This does not mean the NAG1 won't bolt up to the 3.7, but most likely it will not without some kind of adapter.
But that brings you full circle back to the computer programming which controls the Auto Trany. In the KA, the NAG1 Trany has a separate TCM module.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:14 pm

It would be great to have the tiptronic +/- capability in our transmissions. I notice though that there is no tow/haul button on the shifter from the CRD in the picture above.

There are ways to get the KK into a specific gear using our automatic transmission. It's just not as easy or elegant to do.
Basically, if I want it in 3rd, I push Tow/Haul.
If I want it in 2nd, I shift it to 2nd.
If I want it in 1st, I shift it to 1st/Low.

Demiourgos · **Joined:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:49 pm **Posts:** 7

Great, than's for reply.

1. I had no idea that 4.0 petrol KK exist :shock:

2. Tow/haul is equivalent of 3rd gear?
3. All CRD's on Polish market have Select Track, none Liberties imported from US have it. All of them have Command Track. Is there even a petrol version of KK with Select Track?

Scar0 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:15 am

Demiourgos wrote:

Great, than's for reply.

1. I had no idea that 4.0 petrol KK exist :shock:

Not the KK, but the KA (Nitro) does.

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:36 am

They all basically said it. The hardest part of any swaps with a KK/KA is getting the computer to play nice... generally that makes it not worth the effort.

As for the 4.0, as Scar0 said, only in the KA (Nitro). And it's not the old 4.0 I6 like you're thinking. It's a car based v6, it may make more power, but you need to rev it. Basically the 3.7 is better since you get torque down low.

Also I don't believe there is a diesel KK/KA anywhere in the States. Europe gets lucky with diesels....

Lauren, there's no tow/haul button because the triptronic basically is that. It won't upshift or down shift under normal driving/towing unless you tell it to. That's honestly the only way I drive my girlfriend's 200s. It may upshift if you bounce off the limiter, but I've only done that twice. Both times I already upshifted into 2nd and it just didn't shift fast enough when the tires were spinning.

Demiourgos · **Joined:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:49 pm **Posts:** 7

Bmxer524 wrote:

Also I don't believe there is a diesel KK/KA anywhere in the States. Europe gets lucky with diesels....

Bmxer, you say that diesel KK is superior than petrol 3,7? it has less power and it's loud, maintenance is also more expensive for sure. Any pros?

Nitro is a ncie option, but doesn't have low range, right?

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:11 pm

Correct, the Nitro doesn't have 4 Low.

And the diesel makes more torque I believe. And diesels tend to get better mileage than gas. I know a lot of the KJ diesel guys pull mid 20s if not better, even after a lift.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:17 pm

honestly 2nd and 1st are the only selective gears needed. 3rd and 4th are highway gears. 2nd is safely usable at a 55 mph "downshift". for off road 1st and second are the only gears you should be locked in. if your in 3rd in low you probably shouldn't be in low since your going pretty fast. i believe 2nd is around 5-8mph. no need to go faster then that in low. :JEEPIN:

y'all are lucky there are diesel KKs over there... what i would do with a diesel KK...

Demiourgos · **Joined:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:49 pm **Posts:** 7

PALiftedKK wrote:

y'all are lucky there are diesel KKs over there... what i would do with a diesel KK...

what would you?

It's hard to me to understand why 2,8 diesel is said to be superior besides torque.
MPG is better in petrol engine because of LPG conversion which everyone does.
You pay half the price of petrol and diesel riding on LPG.

Is there something bad about 3,7 petrol in KK? (issues, high parts costs...?)

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:18 pm

The 3.7 is fine. It's just underpowered, but it's proven similar to the iconic 4.0 I6.

What's the LPG conversion?

Most people here want a diesel for the torque and fuel efficiency. Sure it's another $1-2 a gallon more, but 25mpg is a lot better than 12.

Gageraid · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:04 pm

It's amazing the torque and mpg you can get in a CRD.
There's a brand GDE that has tunes that dramatically increases torque and mpg.
6 speed, diesel, and tuned, mid 30 mpg is possible.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:02 pm

Id much rather 20+ city 30+ highway then 10- city 20- highway. Plus its a diesel... Whats not to love?...

Demiourgos · **Joined:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:49 pm **Posts:** 7

Bmxer524 wrote:

The 3.7 is fine. It's just underpowered, but it's proven similar to the iconic 4.0 I6.

What's the LPG conversion?

It means that you buy petrol car (with indirect fuel injection) and install a LPG conversion kit that allows you to run at Liquefied Petroleum Gas. Kit costs around ~1000-1500 USD depending on cylinder count, engine power and kit type (quality, technology).
LPG fuel costs half of Petrol price while increasing fuel consumption only by ~10-15%. Also a little of petrol is usually needed to start an engine and heat it up before LPG installations turns on.
All in all you spend almost half the cost of fuel. This is common solution for saving money in Europe.
Engine lifetime and power doesn't suffer, you just have to find a space for additional fuel tank. It can be installed in the place of spare wheel under the car or in the trunk. Some installations allow you to run only on LPG.], than you can get rid of petrol tank and replace it with LPG one.

It can't be done with diesel engine. (actually It can be done, but not the car will run 70% on diesel and LPG will be only an addition in around 30%, and Diesel-LPG kit is overpriced.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:20 am

Demiourgos wrote:

Bmxer524 wrote:

The 3.7 is fine. It's just underpowered, but it's proven similar to the iconic 4.0 I6.

What's the LPG conversion?

It means that you buy petrol car (with indirect fuel injection) and install a LPG conversion kit that allows you to run at Liquefied Petroleum Gas. Kit costs around ~1000-1500 USD depending on cylinder count, engine power and kit type (quality, technology).
LPG fuel costs half of Petrol price while increasing fuel consumption only by ~10-15%. Also a little of petrol is usually needed to start an engine and heat it up before LPG installations turns on.
All in all you spend almost half the cost of fuel. This is common solution for saving money in Europe.
Engine lifetime and power doesn't suffer, you just have to find a space for additional fuel tank. It can be installed in the place of spare wheel under the car or in the trunk. Some installations allow you to run only on LPG.], than you can get rid of petrol tank and replace it with LPG one.

It can't be done with diesel engine. (actually It can be done, but not the car will run 70% on diesel and LPG will be only an addition in around 30%, and Diesel-LPG kit is overpriced.

There are several KA owners over seas who have done this. Most are in the UK.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:56 pm

Gageraid wrote:

It's amazing the torque and mpg you can get in a CRD.
There's a brand GDE that has tunes that dramatically increases torque and mpg.
6 speed, diesel, and tuned, mid 30 mpg is possible.

You don't want the 6 speed manual in a CRD.That 6 speed has a max input torque rating of 272lbs-ft and the CRD makes much more then this.They have to de-tune the CRD's with the 6 speeds and if you add the GDE tune you can say goodbye to your clutch and trans often.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:59 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

Id much rather 20+ city 30+ highway then 10- city 20- highway. Plus its a diesel... Whats not to love?...

Small diesels are pointless.High maintenance costs just don't even out the mpg difference from a gas version with low maintenance costs.

Making a small diesel get better mpg's creates more NoX which is very bad(worse then CO).Ask VW about that one and they can give you about 15 billion reasons as to why.

tommudd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2015 2:34 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

PALiftedKK wrote:

Id much rather 20+ city 30+ highway then 10- city 20- highway. Plus its a diesel... Whats not to love?...

Small diesels are pointless.High maintenance costs just don't even out the mpg difference from a gas version with low maintenance costs.

Making a small diesel get better mpg's creates more NoX which is very bad(worse then CO).Ask VW about that one and they can give you about 15 billion reasons as to why.

So true, couldn't give me a KJ with the CRD in it ,
well you could but I'd only sell it as fast as possible

Attorney58 · **Joined:** Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:32 am **Posts:** 24

I own Jeep Liberty KK 2.8 CRD and it has +/- Auto Transmission which is actually a Mercedes transmission. I love its torque. Also
it has 200bg horse power.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:29 pm

lfhoward wrote:

It would be great to have the tiptronic +/- capability in our transmissions. I notice though that there is no tow/haul button on the shifter from the CRD in the picture above.

There are ways to get the KK into a specific gear using our automatic transmission. It's just not as easy or elegant to do.
Basically, if I want it in 3rd, I push Tow/Haul.
If I want it in 2nd, I shift it to 2nd.
If I want it in 1st, I shift it to 1st/Low.

If the transmission module could be unlocked this would be possible. As with all autos.

If you want to dissassemble the trans control module and follow the copper traces, multiple resistors and a few mosfets and a switch wpuld be required.

semi-automatic transmission in KK

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