I need rehab...

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:57 am

APC9199 wrote:

You fancy spending Christmas in Prescott, Arizona? haha!

You laugh, but we could figure something out... Fixing rockers and doing the studs and everything else on the mod list for the engine is pretty much what I've been doing for just about everyone recently. On my way to Ohio right now for another one.

If you don't fancy tearing the block apart, we can talk. I don't take the front end apart at all, and the whole thing can be a one-day affair and then the CRD is running again.

As for Josh suggesting he knows someone to buy it... Ignore him. He is a bad influence, and needs to find a meeting of CRD Anonymous... :mrgreen:

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:01 am

Shush, I don't have a problem. Lol

But seriously op, Jim can have have it tore down, put back together and running in less than a day. My guess are some broken rockers

APC9199 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:22 pm

So I rolled it to 3:00 and pinned the cams. It took a bit of coercing, but they now both thread completely in by hand, no tools (though I've been called one on many occasions).

Pinning the flywheel is not necessary at this point right? So, both cams are timed correctly, which rules out the valves being out of time = trashed rockers eh? Is there ANYTHING else I should check before I decide to move forward with the rockers one way or another? The prime bulb on the fuel head is still firm now, days after it has been run, so I'm really doubting fuel problems. Am I missing anything?

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:18 am

Well, if the cams are pinned and the bolt holes on the crank are perfectly vertical and horizontal - then it sounds like it is timed correctly... But that doesn't rule out broken rockers.

An uneven or lumpy idle is an indication of poor combustion, from air not getting into or out of a cylinder at the same pace as the other cylinders. I've also seen where the timing could be bang-on, but multiple rockers are still broken the same way as if the timing had skipped. Maybe it did and just was shoved back by the forces, I don't know.

Pretty much, you have to do the work, unfortunately. Or have me do it.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:41 pm

So I got all the parts in, and have the engine torn down to the rockers. The rockers that came out of it look like brand new (after I wiped the swamp-tar off of them) with no play in the bearings or noticeable damage. Three of them were knocked to the side but I probably did that while removing the cover. Is it even possible for them to get knocked off during operation? I continued to tap the valves with a small ball-peen hammer and the intake side all sound identical. Each valve in each cylinder in the exhaust side sounds a bit different, but all of the cylinders sound the same. In other words, 1A sound like 2A, but not like 1B. 1B sound like 2B, etc. The only thing that was kind of strange was the witness on the fuel pump pulley did not align with the timing cover, but was about 90 degrees off. I'll make sure that gets re-aligned when installing the TB.

It seems like there is something else going on here with everything looking to be in such good shape. All the rockers look good, the timing was correct, the valves sound good. At this point I think my only option is to put it back together and try to fire it up. If it still has problems then I guess I need to check the fuel delivery and turbo actuation to make sure both are correct. It ran before, just very rough, so it has to be getting SOME fuel, but I did not check the turbo.

Anyone have any ideas on where I should go next?

rankom · **Posted:** Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:58 pm

well at this point if everything is ok no broken parts internally or bent vibration dumper pulley from accident , i say before you put it back together you should send injectors to BOSCH for testing , just to be 100% sure before you put them back in the engine.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:04 am

I do not often suspect the injectors, but in this case - absent any clues about other mechanical issues... Finding your local diesel injection specialist might not be the worst idea. Look where the big trucks hang out, the business should be near there. You probably have one locally, Bosch has certified shops all over the place.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:33 am

geordi wrote:

I do not often suspect the injectors, but in this case - absent any clues about other mechanical issues... Finding your local diesel injection specialist might not be the worst idea. Look where the big trucks hang out, the business should be near there. You probably have one locally, Bosch has certified shops all over the place.

I've already got a lead on a place to handle that. Injectors seems odd though, after a fairly minor crash. I know they can be delicate in terms of what gets fired through them, but I didn't think they were in terms of bumps and bangs. I'll keep you updated!

EDIT: Is it possible for the fuel pump to lose time without the cams also losing time? If that had happened, would it create fuel delivery problems? That was the only oddity I noticed during the tear down, the fuel pump was not aligned with the witness marks.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:07 pm

The fuel pump runs at 1/3 faster than the speed of the cams, where the crank is 1/2 size, so twice the cam speed. The fuel pump only lines up to the timing mark (with the cams also aligned) every 6th rotation. This is normal.

I agree with you that it is unusual for the injectors to have an issue b/c of a wreck... But absent any other obvious clues, it is a decent possibility. Got any other clues for us though?

APC9199 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:26 am

geordi wrote:

The fuel pump runs at 1/3 faster than the speed of the cams, where the crank is 1/2 size, so twice the cam speed. The fuel pump only lines up to the timing mark (with the cams also aligned) every 6th rotation. This is normal.

I agree with you that it is unusual for the injectors to have an issue b/c of a wreck... But absent any other obvious clues, it is a decent possibility. Got any other clues for us though?

Nothing at the moment. I'm installing the ARP studs while I'm in it this far and then putting it back together. I'll try to fire it up again once I have everything installed again and see what happens. Also, I have a borescope that I'll be using to inspect the pistons as best I can, while it is torn apart, but the injectors and plugs looked fine so I can't imagine I'm going to see anything out of the ordinary there. I'll report if I find anything along the way!

APC9199 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:44 pm

Welllll...no luck upon rebuild. I got the rockers replaced, ARP's installed and decided to put it back together to test fire it. It runs identically to how it did before the rebuild (see video). I didn't have the injectors checked yet, the shop I thought could maybe do it, does not. I have a lead on another shop that might. So, I guess I'm going to focus my efforts on that for now. My instinct is telling me that the next most likely culprit is trashed valves. Thoughts? I just read a post about checking the valves with a straight edge to see if they are obviously bent, just wish I had known that when I had it apart. I also read some posts on leakdown testing, but it seemed like that was a little more advanced and required more equipment than I am willing to own. I really don't want to take the dang head off of this thing! A failed closed injector makes sense, since there is no smoke from the exhaust while it is running. Seems like bad valves would be more likely to cause smoke issues? Anyway, here is my plan of attack.

1: Self-check injectors by unplugging while running (quickly)
2: Self check injectors using the "clear tubing" method to check consumption
3: Self check MPROP (?) by checking fuel return bridge output during cranking/running (not sure about this method, need to research more)
4: Have injectors checked professionally depending on results of above tests
5: Check valves from top side while injectors are being checked and proceed accordingly
6: Profit

The head on my borescope from HF doesn't fit into the injector bore on the head, so I can inspect the pistons. I may have to find someone with a smaller one to check things out. Any other bright ideas floating around out there (beside sell it and get a REAL diesel)? haha

https://www.dropbox.com/s/58bo0g5yqlzecu9/UZVJ1229.MOV?dl=0

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:29 pm

no missfire injector is ok ,,,,,,,,, rod bearing (hope not)

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:12 pm

can you run it up to temp and check oil pressure ? I'm not sure but bottom end noise fools me before , ask . Geordi he knows,

APC9199 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:49 am

rankom wrote:

can you run it up to temp and check oil pressure ? I'm not sure but bottom end noise fools me before , ask . Geordi he knows,

Currently the whole cooling system, etc is disassembled. I may have to re-assemble it to be able to do the extended injector tests I need to do. If that is the case, I'll definitely get the oil pressure for you. Is that accurately readable using an OBD scanner? I have a bluetooth one on the way to check some things out.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I know "stranger things have happened" but how could a fairly mild side-impact collision cause a rod bearing or anything else in the lower end to fail? It seems so far fetched based on some of the really bad accidents I've seen where they still drive the car onto the flat bed. I know this is not really likely, but is it possible that these engines are just THAT rough, and a motor mount failed causing excessive vibration?

I'm going to assume no, but add that to the checklist of things to inspect. I'll let you know if I find anything.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:58 am

Having the cooling system disassembled could have something to do with it. Has always been disassembled? I know it's been said these will sometimes run funny if the thermostat wire isn't plugged in

APC9199 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:38 pm

jws84_02 wrote:

Having the cooling system disassembled could have something to do with it. Has always been disassembled? I know it's been said these will sometimes run funny if the thermostat wire isn't plugged in

It was fully assembled when the problem started (the accident). It has run the same way, regardless of what was hooked up or not, since then.

olypopper · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:15 pm

Do you have access to a scanner with cylinder drop or cylinder contribution tests? I have a cheapo Mac Mentor that can drop each cylinder individually and would be handy to isolate this knock to a single cylinder if that is where the problem lies.

From the vid, it sounds like a deep knock.........but fuel knock can also fool lot's of people into thinking there is an engine problem.

APC9199 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:12 pm

olypopper wrote:

Do you have access to a scanner with cylinder drop or cylinder contribution tests? I have a cheapo Mac Mentor that can drop each cylinder individually and would be handy to isolate this knock to a single cylinder if that is where the problem lies.

From the vid, it sounds like a deep knock.........but fuel knock can also fool lot's of people into thinking there is an engine problem.

The knock in the video should be taken with a grain of salt. I have all kinds of loose wires and hoses running all over the top of the engine right now. It could just as easily have been one of them making the knocking noise. That noise also didn't start until after revving it up a couple times. I'll check again the next time I fire it up to see if I can isolate it.

Regarding the scanner, I currently do not. I just ordered one of the bluetooth OBDII scanners that work with iOS to check a few basic things. Do you know if they will do what you're suggesting? Other than that, I don't really have access to anything and I'm not really looking to spend the money on anything fancy right now.

olypopper · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:52 pm

APC9199 wrote:

olypopper wrote:

Do you have access to a scanner with cylinder drop or cylinder contribution tests? I have a cheapo Mac Mentor that can drop each cylinder individually and would be handy to isolate this knock to a single cylinder if that is where the problem lies.

From the vid, it sounds like a deep knock.........but fuel knock can also fool lot's of people into thinking there is an engine problem.

The knock in the video should be taken with a grain of salt. I have all kinds of loose wires and hoses running all over the top of the engine right now. It could just as easily have been one of them making the knocking noise. That noise also didn't start until after revving it up a couple times. I'll check again the next time I fire it up to see if I can isolate it.

Regarding the scanner, I currently do not. I just ordered one of the bluetooth OBDII scanners that work with iOS to check a few basic things. Do you know if they will do what you're suggesting? Other than that, I don't really have access to anything and I'm not really looking to spend the money on anything fancy right now.

I'm not familiar with the Bluetooth type OBDII scanners so I can't offer any info on capability but I'm sure someone on here may chime in about it.

I think your idea to drop cylinders by disconnecting the injectors one at a time is a good way to isolate where the knock may be coming from.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:56 pm

Something to consider:

I have not experienced any CRD with an air-in-fuel situation knock that has also had a cylinder misfire code. However, 100% of the CRDs with cylinder misfire codes that I have personally seen (three of them) have had severe cylinder or bottom end issues.

Have you found any codes?

I need rehab...

Who is online