selling '05 CRD

naturist · **Posted:** Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:30 pm

I think the time has come to sell as a parts car.

My 2005 CRD has come to grief. It ran like a top right up to the moment it didn't. I'm not entirely sure what happened, but the engine has taken a dump on me. It has never been in a wreck, the body is unaflicted by rust, having lived its entire life here in Virginia. It has 200,000 miles, but only 20,000 miles on a EURO torque converter and transmission pump body. It's got a GDE Eco tune, a brand new thermostat, Hayden fan clutch, Weeks kit, and ARP studs and has less than 100 miles on a new timing belt, water pump, tensioner & idlers as well as serpentine belt, and ETECNO 7 volt glow plugs. I've also got a set of perfectly fine ceramic glow plugs and a few other odd bits to go with it. Oh, and the windshield was replaced just last summer due to catching a rock on the road.

What happened was it developed a leaking head gasket, so I had Geordi come do the ARP studs (and the rest, while he was at it). We did not take the head off, hoping the studs alone would solve the issue. I watched him do the job, and a masterful one it was. Sadly, within the next 100 miles the engine seized up AND blew all the coolant, all within 3 or 4 seconds as I steamed (literally) up the highway at 70 mph. We're thinking dropped valve or thrown rod that somehow punched a hole in the water jacket. It'll hand rotate backwards at least 10 degrees with ease, but roll it forward, you get a decided metallic clunk and no further movement.

This was NOT Geordi's fault, clearly SOMETHING ELSE was on the verge of happening. In any case, this would be the perfect vehicle for somebody who has an engine, perhaps having been in a wreck.

Anyone interested, feel free to PM me. I am not interested in selling pieces, it's all or nothing.

lacabrera · **Posted:** Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:10 pm

For the benefit to others thinking that replacing the head bolts to ARP will cure an already leaking gasket or cracked cylinder head and why why did you not remove the head for an inspection. :banghead:

The only reason you lost the coolant is a fault in that area. Sorry for your loss but if I just laid out all that cash I would wont some answers. (freedom of speech)

rankom · **Posted:** Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:58 pm

no don't sell it, most of us went through some kind of headache or similar …….. example , i did not want to spend money on lift pump when i got my kj , so yes what i spent money on 2 fuel injectors and 2 updated ff heads , marine grade fuel line etc.. then at the end i realized i needed in tank pump , so see where my misdiagnose went just for simple problem . so my point is everybody have a story about this jeep, $$$$ but park it for now , and summer is just around corner so we can look for solution , used engine or what ever is broken inside , just need some resting time.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:15 am

lacabrera wrote:

For the benefit to others thinking that replacing the head bolts to ARP will cure an already leaking gasket or cracked cylinder head and why why did you not remove the head for an inspection. :banghead:

The only reason you lost the coolant is a fault in that area. Sorry for your loss but if I just laid out all that cash I would wont some answers. (freedom of speech)

Here's the thing about that: lifting the head would not have been illuminating about any potential valve issue, because all of the valve drops I have seen have happened above the seat on the stem of the valve. You can see this from above, without removing the head. On Naturist's engine, the valves were all where they should have been.

I certainly want to know what transpired as well, but the reason for not lifting the head was simply that his coolant leak was very minor, only a top-off every few weeks which is much less than some that have been cured with a more significant leak. He also had no indications of coolant leaking back into the cylinders on the glow plugs (it would be charring) so I do not believe that the gasket itself was involved in this.

I have offered and will restate here that I am willing to take the entire top back to the studs free of charge, to help ascertain what exactly happened. The symptoms when taken separately are bad, but together they are just confusing. Jammed engine rotation sounds like a dropped valve... But this is the first one I have heard about that also dropped all the coolant in an instant as well. That is the confusing part. More investigation is needed, and I am certainly willing to help whoever has this CRD if they would like the assistance.

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Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:20 pm

I had one that dumped the coolant instantly, and it was just some broken rockers and I was asking a lot of the engine going up a steep hill, it got hot all of the sudden as the water blew out, and I shut it down. I got the head resurfaced, new HG, ARP's, and the engine is back on the road.

If any one of the timing components failed prematurely, and the belt slipped, you could have the valves bumping into a piston, and not have a dropped valve or thrown rod. Might just need some rockers and a HG if you're lucky :2cents:

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:44 am

Where did your water leak come from Nick? Dumping the coolant in combination with a rocker failure would be extremely unusual to me, and as far as any of the timing components failing... I hope not! This was one of mine, and I've done the same process dozens of times now, so I would hope that I am still doing it properly and precisely.

As much as anyone, I want to see this thing open again so that I can understand what happened. It doesn't seem like two isolated incidents to me, as the coolant loss happened simultaneously with the engine stopping on its own and he said he felt a power loss at the same time. Now with the engine hitting a hard stop, that could be rockers, but usually isn't. It seems to normally be something more.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:25 pm

I agree that it's probably seriously bad, but he might get lucky

I was thinking that one of the rollers, or even the water pump, could have been faulty from the factory. There's got to be some bad ones making it through QA.

Mine apparently blew all of the water right past the HG and radiator cap, and that HG didn't leak a drop prior to that! I let it sit for a year, bummed about it, and then after throwing a HUGE buck about 20 feet with my daily CRD, I robbed a bunch of expensive parts from it, and then I said to heck with it and parted it, only to find out that the engine was fine :banghead:

The noise that I thought was a rod through the block (and where I also assumed the water came from) turned out to be the harmonic balancer barely hanging on by one bolt, it was smacking around. So, I parted a beautiful limited CRD with 88k miles :banghead:

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:55 pm

Ouch, that sucks.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:49 pm

Yeah, I'm feeling permanently stupid about the entire situation :5SHOTS:

lacabrera · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:34 pm

geordi wrote:

lacabrera wrote:

For the benefit to others thinking that replacing the head bolts to ARP will cure an already leaking gasket or cracked cylinder head and why why did you not remove the head for an inspection. :banghead:

The only reason you lost the coolant is a fault in that area. Sorry for your loss but if I just laid out all that cash I would wont some answers. (freedom of speech)

Here's the thing about that: lifting the head would not have been illuminating about any potential valve issue, because all of the valve drops I have seen have happened above the seat on the stem of the valve. You can see this from above, without removing the head. On Naturist's engine, the valves were all where they should have been.

I certainly want to know what transpired as well, but the reason for not lifting the head was simply that his coolant leak was very minor, only a top-off every few weeks which is much less than some that have been cured with a more significant leak. He also had no indications of coolant leaking back into the cylinders on the glow plugs (it would be charring) so I do not believe that the gasket itself was involved in this.

I have offered and will restate here that I am willing to take the entire top back to the studs free of charge, to help ascertain what exactly happened. The symptoms when taken separately are bad, but together they are just confusing. Jammed engine rotation sounds like a dropped valve... But this is the first one I have heard about that also dropped all the coolant in an instant as well. That is the confusing part. More investigation is needed, and I am certainly willing to help whoever has this CRD if they would like the assistance.

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Sorry for the late reply, just returned from a 1000 mile trip in my CRD.
I don't fully understand your term for testing a dropped valve by checking the valve stems? Valve drop in most cases happens at high RPM? Lack of lube between valve guide and stem can cause valve hang up causing piston contact. Personally I would look more closer to the possibility of a slipped cam sprocket.

pjlasota · **Joined:** Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:39 pm **Posts:** 18

can I buy the GDE tune from you ?

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geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:58 pm

lacabrera wrote:

Sorry for the late reply, just returned from a 1000 mile trip in my CRD.
I don't fully understand your term for testing a dropped valve by checking the valve stems? Valve drop in most cases happens at high RPM? Lack of lube between valve guide and stem can cause valve hang up causing piston contact. Personally I would look more closer to the possibility of a slipped cam sprocket.

Here's the problem with that theory:

A slipped cam sprocket would be the same as a failed timing job: Trashed rockers because that is the designed failure method for high-speed piston contact. Since I put the engine back together, I can unequivocally state that the cams were properly torqued and centered on the pins before they were secured, and that I use a counter-hold bar individually on each sprocket while assembling or disassembling to ensure that they do not move at all during the process.

Whether or not a valve was damaged by tiny impacts "just touching" the valve because of a mostly-correct timing job beforehand... I cannot say. I do not recall whether the tensioner was correct when disassembling it, which leads me to think that I didn't see anything that caused concern. But taking the top intake off to see the tops of the studs and the stems of the valves has a purpose: If a valve has dropped, then the stem will be "up" compared to the rest of them, and that will indicate whether the top needs to continue being disassembled and strongly suggest the level of carnage that may be discovered once the head is pulled. I have seen engines that felt like a hard stop that was only caused by a failed rocker, so that alone doesn't inform the decision. We need to see the top.

Besides, the work would need to be done anyway, but if he wants to sell at that point knowing that the head is probably trashed (on finding a dropped valve) then there will be more information to help that decision. Right now, it is all guessing.

rankom · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:13 pm

guys this valve dropping issue was discussed on another thread .so what happened is not what we needed to do. i say we need to help this guy to keep he's jeep. 1st call FRAN at commerce dodge jeep , 706- 335-2830 see if he can help , he can possibly locate a new engine for good price.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:43 pm

We don't know if it is a valve yet. We don't really know anything yet.

lacabrera · **Posted:** Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:28 pm

geordi wrote:

lacabrera wrote:

Sorry for the late reply, just returned from a 1000 mile trip in my CRD.
I don't fully understand your term for testing a dropped valve by checking the valve stems? Valve drop in most cases happens at high RPM? Lack of lube between valve guide and stem can cause valve hang up causing piston contact. Personally I would look more closer to the possibility of a slipped cam sprocket.

Here's the problem with that theory:

A slipped cam sprocket would be the same as a failed timing job: Trashed rockers because that is the designed failure method for high-speed piston contact. Since I put the engine back together, I can unequivocally state that the cams were properly torqued and centered on the pins before they were secured, and that I use a counter-hold bar individually on each sprocket while assembling or disassembling to ensure that they do not move at all during the process.

Whether or not a valve was damaged by tiny impacts "just touching" the valve because of a mostly-correct timing job beforehand... I cannot say. I do not recall whether the tensioner was correct when disassembling it, which leads me to think that I didn't see anything that caused concern. But taking the top intake off to see the tops of the studs and the stems of the valves has a purpose: If a valve has dropped, then the stem will be "up" compared to the rest of them, and that will indicate whether the top needs to continue being disassembled and strongly suggest the level of carnage that may be discovered once the head is pulled. I have seen engines that felt like a hard stop that was only caused by a failed rocker, so that alone doesn't inform the decision. We need to see the top.

Besides, the work would need to be done anyway, but if he wants to sell at that point knowing that the head is probably trashed (on finding a dropped valve) then there will be more information to help that decision. Right now, it is all guessing.

I have no doubt that you know more than most working on these. If you cannot correctly time the cams to the crank than I would say no one can. But having such a major problem after a cam cover removal within 100 miles with no mechanical problem before hand.
Oil contamination on the camshaft or sprocket mating surfaces on rebuilding could allow movement especially if they is any restriction of the rotation of the cam shafts due to distortion of the head.
I very much doubt the true answer to the cause will be difficult to find.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:48 pm

PM sent

naturist · **Posted:** Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:26 pm

Well, boys 'n' girls, Geordi took the head off this afternoon, and found that #4 cylinder dropped one of the exhaust valves, punched a hole in the head right near the exhaust port, accounting for the sudden coolant loss. Unfortunately, the valve head then pounded the crap out of the piston and left it cocked in the cylinder sleeve. Basically the to head, block, and piston are toast, so I'm parting this one out. I have a computer with a GDE tune on it, a good turbo, HPFP, brand new WEEKS kit, set of brand new ARP studs, Euro torque converter, new OEM thermostat, solid transmission with about 20,000 miles on the converter and a new valve body in the transmission. The body is in very good shape, no dents although there are a few scratches in the light khaki paint.

Also, 3 good fuel injectors and 3 new eTechno 7 volt glow plugs, and many other parts too numerous to try to list here. Need a piece? Make an offer. I'll part out what's left, or sell the whole mess, make me an offer.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:58 pm

Yeah, the carnage wasn't any fun at all to discover. I'm pretty gutted that another one has bitten the dust like this. Thinking about how it failed, I'm wondering if maybe the valve stem actually broke INSIDE the guide, since much of the stem is now embedded in the bottom of the head. The first bad indication was that the injector #4 was jammed in the bore again - it was a nightmare to remove the last time for the ARP job, so I'm now wondering if maybe there was some indicator that I / we missed when working on it.

Pictures will be posted shortly, and I passed your information along to Josh, so he may be contacting you directly about it. I will also pass your info along to Tanner, I know he has been searching for the turbo for a while.

Efren_Hinojosa · **Joined:** Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:29 pm **Posts:** 42

At how many miles have the valves dropped in these crd engines?

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geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:54 pm

I don't know about other engines that have dropped valves, but this engine was at 200,000 miles or so. It had been having coolant loss for a while, and hadn't really run long enough for any determination to be made whether the coolant loss issue had been resolved by the studs. However, based on the fact that the number for injector was jammed in the boar again, even after being covered in anti-seize paste, I am inclined to believe that there must've been some distortion in the head.

Pictures as promised:

Don't try to post Dropbox links from the phone... I don't know what the heck those links were, but they were broken. Fixed.

selling '05 CRD

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