Electrical nightmare... FIXED - Kinda.

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:29 pm

Did that deep-cleaning include the engine bay?*
Is this your personal ride? Meaning, is its electrical-history known-good before the "detail"?
If this was definitely caused solely by the detail then time may be on your side as the liquid-compromised electrical connector(s) or component(s) dries out, local-climate dependent.

In Soobs (and Saabs), these systemwide problems are nearly always ground-related (in Soobs, usually fuse/relay head to engine; adding two additional grounds solves 95% of the time).
I'd start by running a hefty (14ga. stranded) jumper solidly connected to the battery ground and clipping-on or grafting/probing it downstream at consecutive grounds within the wire-loom at tertiary splits.
G, you have scads of extra parts, no? As a last-resort, you may consider swapping-in an entire known-good main fuse-block, relays and all. Given that your problem seems viral to virtually every d*^n system, that primary electrical source seems suspect.

*I've avoided "hose-cleaning" engines for 25 years. Particularly in the ecm/tcm era, it just seems like it's asking too much of electrical connectors and components to directly swamp them with water and/or chemical cleaners. Road-spray ain't the same animal...

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:55 pm

They did not open the hood. That much I know for sure, because the dirt on the body panels under the hood is unchanged.

The overall history is unknown - but the electrical system was not screwed when I bought it (that I know of) because the fan did work and so did the lights.

I have already replaced the fuse box / power distribution center under the dash with another. No change. No fuses have been found bad. Relays have been mixed up, and no change there either.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:06 pm

Have you checked the ground that is under the left rear seat to the body? There is also a harness connection there. It is where we connect the in tank fuel pump harness when one is installed...

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:41 pm

Studying the FSM wiring diagrams, looks like the most common item to your gremlins is a ground connector behind the left front kick panel No. G202.
This ground is the ground for the instrument cluster, front lighting, Junction Block ground, and many other things etc...

Quote:

G202 Left Kick Panel (Black Connector)

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:13 pm

Unless it is completely behind the rear seat and inside the wall, there is no ground point near the fuel tank connector. That was where I placed my hand though above the carpet and the fan would shut down but when I pulled the carpet up, that behavior stopped. Very annoying.

The ground behind the kick panel is indeed energized when the high beam is pulled - The wire is black with a green stripe and the blower shuts down when that ground is removed, HOWEVER the lights STILL do not illuminate and the right parking light and turn indicator is still lit when it shouldn't be. So it still hasn't been located.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:08 pm

Page 8W-91-12 looking at the splices:

location in T/O to power distribution center.
WTF does T/O mean? There isn't an acronym key, and they have invented a new one.

I love that the grounds that are listed as "N/S" for images - meaning "we don't give a crap and aren't going to show you this one" are also the ones that are least likely to exist. I confirmed - there is NOT a ground anywhere between the midpoint of the driver's seat and the rear seat back unless it is outside and underneath the body - I haven't looked at the fuel supply wires yet, but that is a 4-wire harness and all 4 leave through the rubber grommet.

Flexing and moving everything around, NOTHING changes anything now. I HATE THIS SO MUCH. All marker lights are illuminated, the blower is happily motoring along, the ground point under the kick panel (black wire green stripe) ONLY takes out the blower, but the lights DO NOT CHANGE and I still have no headlights at all. WTF.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:25 pm

So there turned out to be a three-wire ground point that is NOT MARKED IN THE MANUAL located directly behind and under the left (driver's) headlight. This was the only ground that I found that was rusted, and probably b/c of the location right in the air / water flow past the fog and headlight. When messing with this one, the headlights FINALLY responded and the blower shut off. YAY for success!

Checked the interior... And then saw that the radio was now not illuminated (no display)for reasons that escape. Without finding any source of problem, the radio decided to light up and seems to be working normally. All codes cleared and the only ones that remained was the 610 (improper coding) and the EGR and FCV codes, which went away when I swapped it to Nick's tune file.

I fixed the windows - I had forgotten to plug in the relay for the power windows. Oops. They work fine now.

Apparently the only way to fix the 610 code is to just hide it, that is the next challenge.

Thank you all for the assistance, obviously we all need help once in a while. That is what makes this group great.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:22 pm

So very glad you found the problem!!! We all can learn from these niggly problems as they are solved!!!
I spent a while studying the WD's trying to figure out what was the common connection between the items you were having problems with... :wink:

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:33 pm

After some playing with a hex editor and taking a stab at an edit point, the 610 code also appears to be vanquished. The idiot light is not lit!

The emissions readiness status is not green yet (which it may need to be for a successful passed inspection in NY) but I expect that to be resolved once I can put some mileage onto it. Readiness is always "not ready" right after clearing codes anyway.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:53 pm

Congrats! And thanks for posting, one more fix for the list.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:35 pm

Yeah, I'm thinking I need to look at this same ground point on the other two jeeps I have, I'm sure they are both corroded up too. Bad choice of location. The previous owner also said that he kept on blowing the headlight too - I'm sure that is related. The socket for the marker light is also suspect on two of the Jeeps, but I just found the entire marker light with bulb for $11 on Amazon.

I wish the tail was that cheap.

BlueLghtning · **Posted:** Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:07 am

Glad you figured it out.

I had a wire short on a motorcycle on my trip to Alaska in 2006 and it kept blowing the fuse that controlled my gauges, tail lights, and blinkers. About the only thing I had was a running bike with headlights. Out of my 6500 mile trip, I ended up doing about 2500 of it with no gauges and no tail lights. When I got tome, I spent hours trying to chase it down with no luck. Finally I invited a bunch of friends over and the guy that came over just to hang out found it in about 20 mins just by screwing with wires and we traced it down to the main wiring harness. I fixed it and never had an issue again.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:03 pm

Wiring issues, electrical shorts, bad grounds, etc...are uniquely some of the most challenging problems you will ever encounter on a vehicle due to their obscure nature!
I have worked on many challenging ones over the years, some were simple, and some that were very elusive but eventually were found and repaired... :roll:

To be proactive: It might be a very good idea for everyone to check this ground point that geordi has discovered, as a potential future problem. I know I will be checking mine today!!! :wink:

We all can learn from the tribulations of others!

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:02 pm

It has been suggested that I grab some pictures of this little bugger to clarify the location. I will do this shortly, but to get to it easiest: remove the battery and the battery tray, it is almost directly below the metal top crossmember that secures the radiator, and directly behind the drivers headlight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:04 am

I believe that's a pic of Geordi's culprit ground, marked by a deep socket (8mm).
To ease access, pull the (2) 10mm bolts to remove the obstructing bracket.

Since I currently have the front clips off both my '05 CRD and gasser, here's a bonus pic of the equivalent ground but on the GASSER: note that it has two proximal grounds where the CRD only has one;

Also, confirmation that the pics are appearing correctly would be appreciated.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:30 am

Yup, I see both pics, and that is indeed the bugger that caused so many headaches.

That reminds me - I need to install that ring terminal I got onto the wires and insulate it with liquid tape after I get it mounted again to the gateway bracket bolt.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:44 pm

When I get into that kind of stuff, I frequently use stainless hardware and Stainless star washers to help guarantee a long lasting connection.

Along with a liberal amount of Nickel anti-seize or Kopr Kote

Are those wires sourcing grounds at those 2 points or providing grounds?

A lot of times if those wires are sourcing grounds, I run a ground from the battery to firect

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:41 pm

jrsavoie wrote:

When I get into that kind of stuff, I frequently use stainless hardware and Stainless star washers to help guarantee a long lasting connection.

Along with a liberal amount of Nickel anti-seize or Kopr Kote

Are those wires sourcing grounds at those 2 points or providing grounds?

A lot of times if those wires are sourcing grounds, I run a ground from the battery to firect

Not a bad idea on the extra ground wire to ensure continuity!!! I had to do this on my Dodge Cummins to solve a transmission TC lockup issue a few years back. A poor ground can cause some really weird issues... :roll:

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:54 pm

Gypsy62 wrote:

I believe that's a pic of Geordi's culprit ground, marked by a socket.
To ease access, pull the (2) 10mm bolts to remove the obstructing bracket.

Since I currently have the front clips off both my '05 CRD and gasser, here's a bonus pic of the comparable ground on the gas-beast (note that it has two proximal grounds where the CRD only has one):

Also, confirmation that the pics are appearing correctly would be appreciated.

I took the front off my Jeep. I see the 3 wire connection Geordi had issues with. I do not see the ground in front of it. I have a 2006. Is it possible it is someplace else?

I guess I should have read better.That is a picture of a gasser. I went through a lot of trouble for nothing.

Crap!! LOL

Just another reason I shouldn't do things when I do not feel top notch

Oh well, it makes Geordi's ground a little easier to get to. Good and bad in everything.

When I moved the ground, I added an 8 ga. wire back to the battery and stainless star washers to get better contact.

I had to tap the hole for a bolt. There was nutcert there, but it did not appear to be threaded

The ground only had a Tek/self drilling screw holding it. And it rusty.

Many thanks to Geordi for finding this, right when I needed it found

Gypsy62 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:15 pm

Pardon the confusing nomenclature accompanying my above pics; I just re-edited for clarity. Hopefully now it's clear that the 1st pic is of an '05 CRD's single-ground, the 2nd pic of an '05 Gasser's double-grounds. Sorry 'bout that.
(GREEN=CRD/BLUE=GASSER)

Electrical nightmare... FIXED - Kinda.

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