Glow plug question

dieseljoe93 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:23 pm

Getting our first really cold snap here in Michigan, Have had hard starts the past few mornings, gp light comes on for maybe 1 second I don't think they are working properly. I even wait 30 seconds or so like I do with my old 7.3 and that doesn't help the crd start.

Chances are bad relay? Or did the p.o before me unhook something??? Gps are plugged in still pretty sure they are original. Haven't had a whole lot of time to look into it much farther yet

Suggestions?

lacabrera · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:01 am

As with most modern diesels when the temperature drops below a certain level, I think 6 degrees c on our crds the ecu injects a higher quantity of fuel on start up. Hence excessive smoke on cold days. If the ecu receives an incorrect temp reading it will not go to high fuel.
Might be your problem.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:55 am

If there were a problem with the glow plugs or the circuit there should be a trouble code set.

Some easy things to help with cold starting:
1. cycle the glow plugs twice. Turn the key on, wait for all the dings to stop, turn key off, then on again.
2. use the block heater for at least 30 min prior to starting engine.

Are you still using the factory original 7 volt ceramic glow plugs?
If so, its recommended that you switch to the Etecno 7v metal plugs. The metal plugs wont help with cold starting but they also wont break and cause engine damage.
Bosch 5v metal glow plugs are also available but will require reprogramming of the ECU. Although you might be able to get away with using the 5v plugs on 7v programming.

Sasquatchparts.com has a intake pre-heater setup that might work for you.
Some folks have also installed a Webasto coolant pre-heater setup.

graycenphil · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:04 pm

Is it starting okay? In my '06, the light never stays on for more than a few seconds, no matter how cold it is. Usually it is a scond or less, but starts up fine.

Ceearedeedriver · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2016 8:44 pm **Posts:** 177

flash7210 wrote:

Are you still using the factory original 7 volt ceramic glow plugs?
If so, its recommended that you switch to the Etecno 7v metal plugs.

Maybe OK in FL but not in MI. The 5V Bosch plugs would appear be the best option. Check what you already have in there, it may be Etecno plugs that are killing your starting performance.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:15 pm

I have the 5v Bosch. this morning it was 22 when I left for work. My jeep started fine. I just turn the key on and wait for all the beeps and stuff to stop and engage the starter. My GP LIGHT only stays on a few seconds, like 2 or 3 but the glow plug cycle is much longer than this, there is a preheat phase and post heat phase after the engine fires.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:19 pm

Started mine this morning for the first time in low 30's temperatures after replacing the ceramic glow plugs with the new 7v Etecno glow plugs.
It took about 4-5 seconds of turning motor over before it finally started up. First time it has ever done this; in the past with the ceramics, it always fired right up when starter engaged! :shock:

Now I fully understand what others have warned about the poor performance of the Etecno glow plugs in cold weather. I am sure it will only get worse as temperatures drop below freezing! :roll:

I feel for those up north in the very cold climates that have to deal with this issue. :cry:

On the flip side, I guess it is better to have poor starting performance in cold weather than to have a ceramic fail and destroy engine parts.... :5SHOTS:

dieseljoe93 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:31 pm

I have the original plugs still looked this evening, who does the reprogram for 5v plugs??

The other morning it was 18* and the crd wasn't happy about starting up.

My dad has a crd with 230k on it original plugs that fires right up like it was 70 out. His gp light stays on for 10 seconds or so in the colder weather.

That's why I think I have a issue, may be a fueling issue too tho. This morning it ran like there was air in the fuel. Time for a filter head and in tank pump

blk05liberty · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:39 pm

12f here in wi, gp light was on for about 2 seconds, cranked for about 2 seconds. Something to compare to from someone who lives in actual cold weather. I have 5v Bosch plugs.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:47 pm

How old is your battery? How many CCA?

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

joe_ · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:19 am

dieseljoe93 wrote:

This morning it ran like there was air in the fuel. Time for a filter head and in tank pump

Do you have the old style filter head? if it's already been replaced with the new style, I don't think replacing it again will make any difference.

It might be that it's just not running on all cylinders for the first few seconds due to the glow plugs not performing like they did when they were new.

crasher · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:39 pm

dieseljoe93 wrote:

I have the original plugs still looked this evening, who does the reprogram for 5v plugs??

The other morning it was 18* and the crd wasn't happy about starting up.

My dad has a crd with 230k on it original plugs that fires right up like it was 70 out. His gp light stays on for 10 seconds or so in the colder weather.

That's why I think I have a issue, may be a fueling issue too tho. This morning it ran like there was air in the fuel. Time for a filter head and in tank pump

That part there.
I have the S'quash EGR kit in, with the at-home self reprogrammed computer, so I'd like to know how the 5V plugs are reprogrammed, and which component they're reprogrammed into.
Do I throw the 5V plugs in, and wait for my dealer to have an appointment slot open to reprogram it?
Do I have it reprogrammed and then drive it home to put in the 5v plugs?

Mine is an '06, with 125K, and I'm the 3rd owner.
I don't actually know whether I have the original 7v plugs in, or if they've been changed, and I don't really know what to look for at this point. Is it an obvious visual thing, or do I have to pull them to see if one/all have been changed, reinstall them, order new ones, and hope for the best?

I just don't have a clue at this point.
:5SHOTS:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:24 pm

You could pull no. 1 glow plug (one closest to front of engine) as it is the easiest one to get at and see what voltage is stamped on the plug. It will have 5v or 7v stamped on the side of the glow plug.
As to programing, do not think anyone has figured out how to do an in house reprogram from 7v to 5v just yet?

Option: You could install the 5v glow plugs, unplug the glow plug module and drive it to a dealer for the reprogram, and then reinstall the glow plug relays. It will set a DTC but will go away after you reinstall the module...or the dealer could simply install the module when they reprogram and clear any DTC's for you...

Happy Thanksgiving!!! :wink:

dieseljoe93 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:40 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

You could pull no. 1 glow plug (one closest to front of engine) as it is the easiest one to get at and see what voltage is stamped on the plug. It will have 5v or 7v stamped on the side of the glow plug.
As to programing, do not think anyone has figured out how to do an in house reprogram from 7v to 5v just yet?

Option: You could install the 5v glow plugs, remove the glow plug relays (2 relays) and drive it to a dealer for the reprogram, and then reinstall the glow plug relays. It will set a DTC but will go away after you reinstall the relays...or the dealer could simply install the relays when they reprogram and clear any DTC's for you...

Happy Thanksgiving!!! :wink:

Wait there's 2 glow plug relays?? I only found one.....

I have no idea if I have the updated filter head or not, there's no updated connectors so I'd assume i don't.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:42 am

dieseljoe93 wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

You could pull no. 1 glow plug (one closest to front of engine) as it is the easiest one to get at and see what voltage is stamped on the plug. It will have 5v or 7v stamped on the side of the glow plug.
As to programing, do not think anyone has figured out how to do an in house reprogram from 7v to 5v just yet?

Option: You could install the 5v glow plugs, unplug the glow plug module and drive it to a dealer for the reprogram, and then reinstall the glow plug relays. It will set a DTC but will go away after you reinstall the module...or the dealer could simply install the module when they reprogram and clear any DTC's for you...

Happy Thanksgiving!!! :wink:

Wait there's 2 glow plug relays?? I only found one.....
I have no idea if I have the updated filter head or not, there's no updated connectors so I'd assume i don't.

Edit: you are correct; after looking at my CRD I found there are NO Glow Plug Relays in the Power Distribution Center as shown in the FSM wiring diagram!

Another example of you cannot always trust the FSM to be 100% correct! :x

The Glow Module, as the FSM calls it, is located on my CRD attached to the back side of the battery tray and there is only ONE! :roll:

joe_ · **Posted:** Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:55 am

crasher wrote:

I don't actually know whether I have the original 7v plugs in, or if they've been changed, and I don't really know what to look for at this point. Is it an obvious visual thing, or do I have to pull them to see if one/all have been changed, reinstall them, order new ones, and hope for the best?

There's a plastic ring on the top of the glow plug, just above the hex portion (where a socket goes). Different glow plugs have a different color ring.

white = Bosch 7v ceramic (factory original style)
red = Bosch 5v steel
black = Etecno 7v steel

I linked the 5v and 7v steel ones to idparts' product pages so you can see what I'm talking about. Note the plastic ring on the 7v Etecnos is barely visible on their product image, but the 5v Bosch image should give you a pretty good idea what I'm talking about. If you still have the original 7v ceramics, they may be a bit dirty, making it hard to tell the plastic ring apart from the surrounding steel (this was the case on mine anyway).

dieseljoe93 wrote:

Wait there's 2 glow plug relays?? I only found one.....

As far as I know, there's just the one located just behind the battery. According to a CRD owner from South Africa (I forget their username) the '02-'04 export models had two glow plug relays in the power distribution center; maybe that's what WWDiesel's seeing in the wiring diagram.
Edit: It was Billwill's post I was thinking of.

dieseljoe93 wrote:

I have no idea if I have the updated filter head or not, there's no updated connectors so I'd assume i don't.

If your fuel heater plug looks like the one in Sir Sam's CRD Noob Guide, you have the older style and should probably replace it. If the fuel heater plug's wider and has a blue clip (pin retainer?) on it, then you already have the newer style and should be all set as far as that goes.

joelukex4 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:54 pm **Posts:** 386

As WolverineFW said "How old is your battery"? My brother has the original ceramic plugs with a new 800CCA battery. Up north Wisconsin during deer season. 9F in the morning and it started right up. Cycle the glow plugs twice and it is ready to go.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:12 am

Considering your locale, you might want to consider this option if you can budget it.
https://shop.sasquatchparts.com/products/2005-2006-jeep-liberty-crd-winter-cold-start-intake-heater-egr-fcv-delete-weeks-kit/

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:59 pm

joe_ wrote:

As far as I know, there's just the one located just behind the battery. According to a CRD owner from South Africa (I forget their username) the '02-'04 export models had two glow plug relays in the power distribution center; maybe that's what WWDiesel's seeing in the wiring diagram.

I stand corrected and you are right; after looking at my CRD I found there are NO Glow Plug Relays in the Power Distribution Center as shown in the FSM wiring diagram!

Another example of you cannot always trust the FSM to be 100% correct! :x

The Glow Module, as the FSM calls it, is located on my CRD attached to the back side of the battery tray and there is only ONE! :roll:

The FSM does show the location to wit:

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:49 pm

Another way of getting your ECU flashed to the 5v glow plug program is to have a GDE tune installed. Keith can write that in the code for you to load when you do your glow plugs, Or if you already are a current customer of his he charges $50 to update your old tune code to the newest version and 5v support can be added then, this is how I did mine. In summer 2015 when mine was done I think some on here and the Facebook group couldn't grasp why I spent the extra coin to go Bosch 5v, now going in to the second winter with them seeing other say how they hate the Etechno and the few that have Bosch saying they aren't so bad. I think I made the better choice.

Glow plug question

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