Intercooler DOA

Danno · **Posted:** Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:31 pm

Well CRD is in the shop again. EGR went right after I pulled out of the shop to get the EGR Mix Valve replaced.
He knows its all the oil fouling up the intake and its all coming from the factory CCV but when he called STAR they didnt want to say what was causing it. STAR told him he must clean the entire Intake out, then replace the EGR.
Well I get in there today, Intercooler is laying on the floor and CRD is up high in the sky. He said the intercooler was beyond cleaning and was way to gummed up to save. So hes getting a new one installed on Monday. He says hes got 2 more crds going throught the same thing and hes kind of glad I gave him some experience. He also said, he doesnt care how many times hes gotta replace the EGR or the Mix Valve or Intercooler as long as he gets me going. Doesnt bother me much because parts for them are always in next day, and there always good about getting me a loaner. Great dealer and a great tech, always willing to go the extra mile and answer all my questions.

So far, work done:
2 egr's(inlcuding now)
1 egr mix valve
1 intercooler
2 glow plugs
1 glow plug sensor
1 body control computer

valkraider · **Posted:** Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:49 pm

Just an FYI:

"DOA" means "Dead On Arrival".

Danno · **Posted:** Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:09 pm

valkraider wrote:

Just an FYI:

"DOA" means "Dead On Arrival".

Well, when it got to the dealer it pretty much was.
Im not sure, but I think he even tried a defibrillator.
I wonder if it being clogged up could cause a drop in MPG and a loss of power.

tired_old_dave · **Joined:** Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:45 pm **Posts:** 79

Can you do me a favor since you have a real mechanic and shop?

Ask them to check your turbo and your catalytic converter.

Did you modify your airbox or muffler?

Tom_with_a_Dream · **Posted:** Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:26 pm

My '05 went through two EGRs in immediate succession too. The second one my Service Tech (Adams Jeep in Aberdeen, MD) went so far as to replace the EGR housing as well, thinking there might have been a seal issue on the housing side, etc. When I left with the second EGR he told me he'd be calling to have me back in to replace the EGR Air Cooler, it had gotten sooted up with the faulted EGR. They had cleaned it as best they could but he said not worth the bother...

Is this the same "intercooler" you are referring to? I thought he was talking about my intercooler during this and was confused as to how the exhaust was related to the intercooler, but he said there's an air cooler underneath (somewhere ?) for the EGR.

Danno · **Posted:** Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:35 pm

The intercooler im talking about is the big ole radiator looking behind the actual radiator i believe. I know it was because he had it laying on the floor for me to inspect.

Turbo is fine. Funny that you mention that because when he replaced the mix valve a month ago STAR told him to replace the turbo! He didnt agree with that, all his diags came back fine, there was no oil or anything coming out of it. Im sure if the turbo was bad id notice. No air box mods. Cat is gutted. If they complain ill fix it but its not causing my issues. Hes got other customers starting to come in now with the same issues so im pretty sure the cats not the issue. Id like to get a better muffler, but thats out of the question until this all gets sorted out. Heck, STAR even complained about my aftermarket STP airfilter! They made me by a OEM for 16 bucks. What a joke, tech even had a good laugh at that. The parts guy even came out when i put it on and told me everybody in the shop was looking at the 2 and couldnt find a differnce.

STAR Has never told him to check the exhaust. He knows the problem is oil n soot clogging up the intake coming from the ccv He even offered just to clean it out every 6 months or so.

I thing this egr thing is something we will just have to deal with. I dont see Chrysler coming out with a permanent solution any time soon. Heck, there handing out EGR's like hot cakes out here.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:49 am

Danno wrote:

The intercooler im talking about is the big ole radiator looking behind the actual radiator i believe. I know it was because he had it laying on the floor for me to inspect.

Turbo is fine. Funny that you mention that because when he replaced the mix valve a month ago STAR told him to replace the turbo! He didnt agree with that, all his diags came back fine, there was no oil or anything coming out of it. Im sure if the turbo was bad id notice. No air box mods. Cat is gutted. If they complain ill fix it but its not causing my issues. Hes got other customers starting to come in now with the same issues so im pretty sure the cats not the issue. Id like to get a better muffler, but thats out of the question until this all gets sorted out. Heck, STAR even complained about my aftermarket STP airfilter! They made me by a OEM for 16 bucks. What a joke, tech even had a good laugh at that. The parts guy even came out when i put it on and told me everybody in the shop was looking at the 2 and couldnt find a differnce.

STAR Has never told him to check the exhaust. He knows the problem is oil n soot clogging up the intake coming from the ccv He even offered just to clean it out every 6 months or so.

I thing this egr thing is something we will just have to deal with. I dont see Chrysler coming out with a permanent solution any time soon. Heck, there handing out EGR's like hot cakes out here.

Wow, I would like to know who you have for a dealer. Actually clean or even replace an intercooler for oil fouling? That's supposed to be "normal" along with all the f%@# $6/qt oil it's burning. I can't get the time of day out of mine and they are clearly pointing the finger at STAR when I threatened to sue them.

GreggD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:20 am

How does one remove the intercooler? I know where it is, but not how to remove it for cleaning. My Liberty has had 4 EGR valves on it since June of last year. I've removed the hoses from the turbo to the intercooler just to check the air flow, then checked the air flow from the intercooler to the EGR valve. The flow seems the same. I keep getting code "P0401" on my scan tool. This means that the flow to the EGR is insufficient. I also noticed a tell-tale sign of "blood" (sooty oil) where the valve mates up to the intake. I've also wondered if there was supposed to be some sort of seal or gasket there.

I plan on removing the EGR myself later today to check things over, & maybe making some sort of gasket to put between the valve & the intake. MAYBE there is a leak at that point, which just may be causing the code to pop up.

Danno · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:38 pm

Im sure he would be willing to tell me how he got the intercooler off. He showed me how to get at the egr and that didnt look fun. As far as my dealer, there great. The tech used to work on the big ole cummins at the dodge dealer but now hes at a smaller dealer where they dont even have diesel trucks. Which is kind of nice for me because theres never a wait for him to work on my CRD.

Heres what he showed me about the egr,
Take the front driveshaft off
Take the starter off
And have at it.

GreggD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:16 pm

I tried to get the EGR valve off a few days ago. Going at the job from engine level, I had to remove the hose from the intercooler to the valve, unplug the electrical connection from the EGR, the little squarish connector at the alternator & the connector on the "T" shaped support. Once that was done, I removed the 3 bolts on the "T" shaped support. Two are 13mm & the bolt closest to the alternator is 15mm. Once that was done, I was able to get at the valve pretty easily. The valve is secured by four 5mm allen head type screws. I wasn't able to go much further because I needed an allen head bit socket to be able to remove the valve.

Tools needed:

1/4 " drive wrench with an 8mm socket to remove hose clamps
3/8" drive wrench with 5mm allen head bit socket, a 2 1/2" extention, 13mm & 15mm sockets

GreggD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:58 pm

I removed the EGR valve assembly a little while ago. When the screws are removed, you find that the unit is actully 2 pieces. I looked up into the manifold & saw a generous amount of oil & built up sludge. What a mess! If that's what's gumming up the works, then no wonder the EGR flow is insufficient. I'll clean things up as much as I can & hope for the best. This will definitely get mentioned to the dealership service department so they can do a more thorough cleaning job if what I do doesn't help.

GreggD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:30 pm

Looks like Im going to have to serve myself a big plate full of crow/humble pie/etc. What I thought was the EGR valve was in reality the EGR Flow Control Valve. The EGR valve seems to be mounted on the underside of the engine just above the starter. I traced down where the line going out of the bottom of the manifold goes to. My observation of the oil/sludge gumming thing up was right, but I guess I didn't have all the information & jumped to a false conclusion as to where the EGR is located. Oh well, live & learn from your mistakes.

Book me Danno, Stupidity One!

Stan Wright · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:55 pm

GreggD wrote:

Looks like Im going to have to serve myself a big plate full of crow/humble pie/etc. What I thought was the EGR valve was in reality the EGR Flow Control Valve. The EGR valve seems to be mounted on the underside of the engine just above the starter. I traced down where the line going out of the bottom of the manifold goes to. My observation of the oil/sludge gumming thing up was right, but I guess I didn't have all the information & jumped to a false conclusion as to where the EGR is located. Oh well, live & learn from your mistakes.

Book me Danno, Stupidity One!

When you had that area taken apart did you notice any good places for a water temperature sender? I think the factory one is in that area. I'm thinking about removing the mixing valve so I can put a boost sensor in the manifold and remove the shavings, so I appreciate your writeup.

XJJeepGirl · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:59 pm

So how do you know if the EGR valve is bad? I just have 5,000 miles on my CRD and am worried about things getting gummed up. My dealer already doesn't like me and doesn't want to service my vehicle.

For instance I turned my CRD in last Tuesday for the BCM reprogram and to have the transmission filters replaced again and they still haven't worked on it yet! I hate driving their loaner Dodge Neon piece of junk.

Catherine

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:45 pm

GreggD wrote:

Looks like Im going to have to serve myself a big plate full of crow/humble pie/etc. What I thought was the EGR valve was in reality the EGR Flow Control Valve. The EGR valve seems to be mounted on the underside of the engine just above the starter. I traced down where the line going out of the bottom of the manifold goes to. My observation of the oil/sludge gumming thing up was right, but I guess I didn't have all the information & jumped to a false conclusion as to where the EGR is located. Oh well, live & learn from your mistakes.

Book me Danno, Stupidity One!

You may have named the wrong part but identified the right problem. Now work your way back the airflow to the turbo, the CRuD only gets worse. Personally have gone to great lengths to keep this dry (and failed) and I don't like what I see. Can't imagine what the inside of your intercooler looks like. Find it hard to believe that trained engineers would build and sell stuff like this. Somewhere inside DC, there has to be an engineer pounding on their desk saying "I told you this wouldn't work."

Guest · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:15 pm

Danno - How many miles and how many months have you had your CRD and are you still using the 0W-40 oil? I have never pulled my intercooler hoses because I never wanted to see the reality of what you and others are reporting.

Cuious if I'm in for a surprise at 12k miles in 8 months of use. Been waiting for the 'OldNavy CCV' modification...

GreggD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:21 pm

Thanks for the vote of confidence RFCRD.

At least I got one thing right. I would like to find out just how badly oiled & crudded up the intercooler is, but I'm not sure how to remove the thing. One of the things I did while the flow control valve was off was to shoot some throttle body cleaner down that line after I'd cleaned the valve parts. I thought maybe it would disolve some of the CRuD. Don't think it helped much. Looks like somebody at the dealership service department gets the privilage of doing a first rate cleaning of all the lines. I have the satifaction of knowing that no more oil will get into the system because I've done a modification to the CCV. Oldnavy referred to it as the "Elephant Trunk Modification". To that I say "Well feed me peanuts & call me Dumbo!!!"

GreggD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:35 pm

Hello Stan & KJJeepGirl;

Stan, I didn't see anything that may help you out on where to add that sensor. It's pretty tight in that area as it is with wiring, hoses, & etc.

Now for KJJeepGirl's question; I've had a total of 4 EGR valves on my Liberty since last year. The CCV allows engine oil to be spewed into the air intake going to the turbo. This in turn sends the oil into the intercooler & ultimately into the EGR valve, ruining it over time. I have a scan tool that shows code P0401. This means the air flow to the EGR is insufficient. According to DC, that means the valve is bad. I think your dealership has a personal problem by not wanting to give service to its customers. I don't have any attitude problems with the dealer I go to. I just hate going back to get the same problem fixed over & over. If you do a modification, you can keep the oil out of where it doesn't need to be.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:38 pm

alljeep wrote:

Danno - How many miles and how many months have you had your CRD and are you still using the 0W-40 oil? I have never pulled my intercooler hoses because I never wanted to see the reality of what you and others are reporting.

Cuious if I'm in for a surprise at 12k miles in 8 months of use. Been waiting for the 'OldNavy CCV' modification...

You know you aren't supposed to look in there. Didn't they tag the lines "for dealer service only"? I would post the 12K/8 month photo of my CAC hose if I could figure out how to do it. Not a pretty sight even 2K after cleaning and I have a working Provent. :evil:

Danno · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:00 pm

Been using 0w40 since day 1. So thats about 19,000 miles now. The dealer new about the oil in the intake since about 4,000 miles because the Intercooler hose blew off and I took it in for them to check it out(I fixed it just wanted to make sure it was allright) and I mentioned all the oil in the intake then. I kinda mentioned to them about the 0w40 oil but I told him I wasnt going to budge from using that untill the warranty was up because of how picky Chrysler has been with it so far. He said thats a good idea, keep using the 0w40 and dont worry about the egrs going bad. He will just keep replacing them.
LOL.

Ill see if I can get a pic of the old Intercooler, and hoses.. They were really bad when I saw them.

Sorry Gregg, was outta town since last night otherwise I woulda warned ya..

Intercooler DOA

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