Geordi's threads VS others?

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:47 pm

I am in Cevans camp with regard to Jeff's thermostat and I have said numerous times that I think it is very well designed and probably over-built for the application. Where Jeff and I disagree is on customer service and unsubstantiated claims about performance. If data exists, I would share it if this was mine, but that is me. I'm not about making conclusions, but sharing all the information and letting the owner make the decision about everything. It is their truck after all.

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flman · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:53 pm

cevans wrote:

flman wrote:

I agree, threads like these are the no zone for vendors, I am surprised cevans put any input here as well?

Yeah, I wasn't comfortable doing it. I've seen a *LOT* of tight enthusiast communities be split apart by these types of things. The CRD community is so small we can't afford to have a schism. These arguments always come down to egos and past history and the community suffers. I want to be a good resource for the group - and I spend most of the day on the phone with CRD owners, which keeps me away from the forum most of the time - and in this instance I thought my usefulness would be to come to the defense of a valuable member of the community.

I think you posted with enough tact, and I will still be using IDparts, even if you did show your human side. :JEEPIN:

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK · **Joined:** Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm **Posts:** 1167

Ceearedeedriver wrote:

Nah, I wouldn't consider it luck. Admittedly, the life expectancy of the OE thermostat is somewhat disappointing but when working properly it does, without exception, maintain the engine temperature at the level determined by the engineers at VM and Chrysler to be the correct operating temperature for this engine.

Consider this, how many replacement thermostats are sold worldwide. How many are Mopar originals?, how many Crown?, how many are HDS and how many others e.g. DIY mods and inline. My guess would be that Jeffs percentage is in the low single digits and Mopar up in the 60's-80's. Now, that tells us where the consensus really is.

This is a false argument Ceearedeedriver, and it shows your deliberate ignorance of the issues at play here. I have a start-up business here and have not even been able to afford a website yet; the O.E. thermostat has been in existence here and in other markets around the world for up to 14 years, as it was also used in the previous R425 engine. Of course the manufacturer(s) of the O.E. thermostat is going to own 99%+ of the market!

The engineers who determined the opening temperature of the O.E. thermostat chose different temperatures for different markets. Why? Because there are different pollution control standards in different markets; the thermostat valves in assemblies sold in the European markets are 92 degrees Celsius, (not good), and here in North America they are way down to 80 degrees Celsius, (horrible), due to our ridiculous standards for low NOx pollutants. These are not standards that can be achieved without making sacrifices to engine longevity and fuel economy. This is also a case where the engineers are told what to do to comply with the law, rather than what is good for the engine and for fuel economy. It is funny how most CRD members on this forum recognize the fact that engineers are forced to do things to comply with pollution control regulations like incorporating EGR, crankcase ventilation systems and re-tuning the engine, but that for some at least the engine temperature has nothing to do with it. Keith at Green Diesel Engineering has known for years that the CRD engine runs way too cool in the North American market for maximum efficiency and reliability, and was one of my first customers. This is a guy who has more experience with tuning European diesel engines than virtually anyone else in North America, and has a friend who had worked for years in V.M. Motori's North American headquarters and therefore has access to information on V.M. Motori's products that nobody else can get.

What puzzles me is, you have been on this forum long enough to know that basic problem with the Libertry CRD O.E. thermostat engine operating temperature issue, and that CRD owners have been trying to increase temperatures for years. Why would you make a statement that seems to conclude that the O.E. thermostat opening temperature is the proper opening temperature?

It seems that you are promoting two very different stories here. One one hand you are stating that the O.E. thermostat is O.K., and on the other you are arguing that Sarge's modified unit is the way to go. About the only common theme here in both stories is that you darn my product with faint praise even though you never even held on in your hands.

NapaBavarian · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:39 pm **Posts:** 129

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

NapaBavarian wrote:

I read the first few and scratched my head. Geordi seems to be helpful even if you aren't a customer, I can't say the same about Bauer, his product may be top notch but after trying to deal with him I felt like I was buying from a snake oil salesman playing his [excellent] product up as magic. Pricing and information was hard to find and there was a significantly higher price in the USA because he didn't want to vary his price based on the exchange rate. There also was bizarre false logic, a bigger passage into the head, but when I stuck my finger in the head it felt like the passage was more restricted than the factory thermostat passage. It is hard to trust someone who plays those games.nm

Enough with the over-the-top rhetoric, NapaBavarian; I never claimed the Model 001 was magic, just the best option available.

Your observations regarding the flow of coolant out of the cylinder head and through the O.E. thermostat assembly are pure speculation. I would like to see you stick your fingers in all the passages of the O.E. thermostat; good luck getting them unstuck. Have you actually flow measured either the cylinder head or O.E. thermostat assembly? Somehow I doubt that, and I can tell you where to stick your finger the next time you want to use it.... do not try to B.S. me or the members here with your crap observations; they simply do not wash. Oh, wait... there Is someone stupid enough to take what you have to say as gospel... over to you, Ceearedeedriver!

The fact of the matter is the O.E. thermostat assembly is definitely the cooling system pinch point on the R425 and R428 engines, as it is on most engines.

You now have your wish; prices for the Model 001 are the same in Canada as they are in the U.S. They are now universally priced at $465.00 USD, plus shipping. Happy now?

Finally, that is some really twisted logic you got there, NapaBavarian... if you even bothered to make that phone call to highironcrd you would know geordi has been less than honest with him, and has his money... highironcrd is most definitely geordi's customer, now AND from previous business.

You were never my customer; you simply asked for information, and did not like what you received. That is O.K. But for you to allude that you were my customer simply for asking for information and claiming that you were mistreated is a lie.

WTF?

Your attitude shines through.

I don't own a Ferrari either, but I know what they do.

NapaBavarian · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:39 pm **Posts:** 129

thermorex wrote:

Jeff's thermostat is a masterpiece. I will say it again and again! Lots of options for adding temperature probes and different thermostats for different temperatures. Great is not enough said. I like when people think things through. It shows creativity and practicability. It's expensive, but if you want the Rolls Royce of the thermostats, you pay the money. I wish Jeff would have one for the v6 3.0 vm crd, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I don't disagree with the quality, I replaced my stuck stat with a stock thermostat and I see lower fuel effiency when the engine is at operating temperature just below half than I saw with the old one on hot days when temp was just over half. I don't disagree with the quality of a billet product.

I plan to build my old housing into a changeable housing but for less than half the price I could have one made for me, the billet construction may give some folks a warm fuzzy feeling but I have failed to be shown any verifyable advantages other than increased temps and for the nay sayers, I believe newer versions of this engine have a higher temp t stat so it isn't contrary to engineers recomendation.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:38 pm

NapaBavarian wrote:

thermorex wrote:

Jeff's thermostat is a masterpiece. I will say it again and again! Lots of options for adding temperature probes and different thermostats for different temperatures. Great is not enough said. I like when people think things through. It shows creativity and practicability. It's expensive, but if you want the Rolls Royce of the thermostats, you pay the money. I wish Jeff would have one for the v6 3.0 vm crd, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I don't disagree with the quality, I replaced my stuck stat with a stock thermostat and I see lower fuel effiency when the engine is at operating temperature just below half than I saw with the old one on hot days when temp was just over half. I don't disagree with the quality of a billet product.

I plan to build my old housing into a changeable housing but for less than half the price I could have one made for me, the billet construction may give some folks a warm fuzzy feeling but I have failed to be shown any verifyable advantages other than increased temps and for the nay sayers, I believe newer versions of this engine have a higher temp t stat so it isn't contrary to engineers recomendation.

I have personally owned a crd that had one of the plastic fittings break on the stock stat, it melted one of the pistons... And I've heard of at least one other similarly destroyed engine. I wouldn't trust my engine to that piece of pot metal and plastic, especially since there is a solid alternative. Just my opinion

NapaBavarian · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:39 pm **Posts:** 129

Mountainman wrote:

NapaBavarian wrote:

thermorex wrote:

Jeff's thermostat is a masterpiece. I will say it again and again! Lots of options for adding temperature probes and different thermostats for different temperatures. Great is not enough said. I like when people think things through. It shows creativity and practicability. It's expensive, but if you want the Rolls Royce of the thermostats, you pay the money. I wish Jeff would have one for the v6 3.0 vm crd, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I don't disagree with the quality, I replaced my stuck stat with a stock thermostat and I see lower fuel effiency when the engine is at operating temperature just below half than I saw with the old one on hot days when temp was just over half. I don't disagree with the quality of a billet product.

I plan to build my old housing into a changeable housing but for less than half the price I could have one made for me, the billet construction may give some folks a warm fuzzy feeling but I have failed to be shown any verifyable advantages other than increased temps and for the nay sayers, I believe newer versions of this engine have a higher temp t stat so it isn't contrary to engineers recomendation.

I have personally owned a crd that had one of the plastic fittings break on the stock stat, it melted one of the pistons... And I've heard of at least one other similarly destroyed engine. I wouldn't trust my engine to that piece of pot metal and plastic, especially since there is a solid alternative. Just my opinion

That sounds like a legitimate concern, although I would question the connection to the piston melting, my experience leads me to understand melted pistons tend to come from fuel injection issues causing one cylinder to have burn temperatures far above acceptable levels, overheating tends to crack the head first. I don't disrespect anyone who has purchased either of the optional thermostats, but given your concern I may send my fittings to mcmaster Carr to see if they have metal replacements, thank you.

NapaBavarian · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:39 pm **Posts:** 129

olypopper wrote:

I still thinks it's funny that the only people bashing Jeffs thermostat are cheap skates anyway.

This is not true, but it makes a great justification. I could have rebuilt the top end of my engine for a few hundred dollars, instead I spent almost $2000 on parts to upgrade everything under the hood and be done with it, when I read Jeffs ranting posts I have no interest in sending him money for anything, it may be a great product but it has 2 advantages. Quallity. Higher operating temperature. When I searched I could find no information on it, I seriously question why such a useful product does not have a sticky at the top of this forum with clearly posted price and shipping, even if it cost him a few dollars, and why all the false claims need to be added to the sales pitch. I posted a thread asking for information after getting a return email from Jeff that did not answer a couple basic questions and found out more than I wanted to know.

Ceearedeedriver · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2016 8:44 pm **Posts:** 177

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

the O.E. thermostat has been in existence here and in other markets around the world for up to 14 years, as it was also used in the previous R425 engine. Of course the manufacturer(s) of the O.E. thermostat is going to own 99%+ of the market!

Yeah, and doesn't that tell you something? The OE thermostat maybe isn't quite as bad for these engines as you would like to make us believe with your sales pitch. My money would be on something else taking your engine out long before using the OE thermostat does.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

Why would you make a statement that seems to conclude that the O.E. thermostat opening temperature is the proper opening temperature?

That's correct, we've covered this ground a dozen times Jeff, I'm not going over it again.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

It seems that you are promoting two very different stories here. One one hand you are stating that the O.E. thermostat is O.K., and on the other you are arguing that Sarge's modified unit is the way to go. About the only common theme here in both stories is that you darn my product with faint praise even though you never even held on in your hands.

Yes, that is correct and my postings have been very consistent about this. My preferred option depends on one's ability. I'm not about to suggest someone with a few hand tools and a tube of JB-Weld attempts their own housing mod. If you have access to a shop, materials and the necessary skills my preference is for Sarge's mod because it gives more flexibility at lower cost. This is clearly only going to work for a few of us here so the next choice, for the majority of owners, is the OE housing.

It seems that you are promoting two very different stories here :roll:

viewtopic.php?p=893910#p893910 "For those CRD owners who can not afford, or will not pay for a Hot Diesel Solutions Model 001 engine thermostat assembly, Mark Kapalczynski's design is the best alternative."

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:28 pm

Regarding melted piston- the fitting blew the coolant out and the fellow was not in a position to pull over fast enough. The head was also cracked, I haven't checked the bottom end yet but it rotates smoothly :BANANA:

NapaBavarian · **Joined:** Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:39 pm **Posts:** 129

Mountainman wrote:

Regarding melted piston- the fitting blew the coolant out and the fellow was not in a position to pull over fast enough. The head was also cracked, I haven't checked the bottom end yet but it rotates smoothly :BANANA:

That I can see, although it is more likely that the temp went unnoticed or was pushed when hot, I had something similar happen. Meltdowns take a bit to become that destructive and if you're a business owner with a few employees or clients you've probably noticed Me Nomie gets blamed for everything.

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

There is too much Geordi on this forum..... there is a lot of other techs here than can change timing belt and rockers !

Geordi is a very resourceful person and very valuable on this forum. but he does't know everything and he talk like he does and he prevent other valuable advise to come in because he act like he is the king of this forum !

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:51 am

NapaBavarian wrote:

Mountainman wrote:

Regarding melted piston- the fitting blew the coolant out and the fellow was not in a position to pull over fast enough. The head was also cracked, I haven't checked the bottom end yet but it rotates smoothly :BANANA:

That I can see, although it is more likely that the temp went unnoticed or was pushed when hot, I had something similar happen. Meltdowns take a bit to become that destructive and if you're a business owner with a few employees or clients you've probably noticed Me Nomie gets blamed for everything.

Just another reason why I like real gauges that show real values.

flman · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:04 pm

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

This is a false argument Ceearedeedriver, and it shows your deliberate ignorance of the issues at play here. I have a start-up business here and have not even been able to afford a website yet; the O.E. thermostat has been in existence here and in other markets around the world for up to 14 years, as it was also used in the previous R425 engine. Of course the manufacturer(s) of the O.E. thermostat is going to own 99%+ of the mark

You can get a webite at Homestead.com for less than $10 a month.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:40 pm

Lifetime.hosting (web address) is $40 for their "lite" website with 250mb storage and pay once never pay again.

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Dent · **Joined:** Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:05 pm **Posts:** 275

Sir Sam wrote:

So who are we bringing in next to the quagmire? Incommando?

I say RockLizard. That used to be fun.

highironcrd · **Joined:** Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:52 pm **Posts:** 133

Ceearedeedriver wrote:

PZKW108 wrote:

The topic of this tread is Geordi not Jeff..............

As a reminder, here's the 2nd sentence of the original post:

"Why is Hot Diesel Solutions no longer a vendor?.........why didn't moderators lock up threads about Jeff Bauer's products when they were attacked by people that don't own the product?"

Heck the title of the thread is "Geordi's threads VS others"

So not sure how you can come and tell us it's not as much about both of them? I think it's fair for us to answer these questions by pointing out how Jeffs behaviour may have contributed to his treatment.

who's treatment??are you referring to the way Geordi has been Treated?because I'm directly the one to start it.after almost a month of asking for my money back from a deal that went south because he wrecked the vehicle,...and yes i can prove to you xactly how much was spent and why over the few jobs he did,(about a dozen guys have called me privately and cannot believe the numbers or the way he handled it)..btw I'm heading to boca raton tuesday morning to file court papers against geordi to go to court over this.more cost incurred over a very dishonest person who made serious coin and still @$#% a brother and @$#% me hard,and still claims to be the smartest best guy here on LJ so lets not mix apples (Jeff) with Oranges (Me)

highironcrd · **Joined:** Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:52 pm **Posts:** 133

jrsavoie wrote:

lacabrera wrote:

I fully agree to locking the posts, it will and probably has already put others of from joining LJ. I know its not my place to get involved but I do feel that gordi has been profiteering on this forum for a considerable time. Not that I personally have an issue with that, but I would imagine some members would. In return he has contributed to the forum considerably, not necessarily correctly every time but than we are all human.

Yep, Geordi provides a valuable service to all he deals with. He is definitely an asset to the community. I only come here to look for info.

The whole site is a wealth of info and needs to be kept going. People need to spend less time bickering about nothing and more time helping each other out.

in the spirit of what your saying ,i took it as my duty to inform everyone exactly how he deals, oh yes he will lure you in with a fained goodwill, and evan get you to believe in his knowledge, but hey look at both sides of the coin mister,.i didn't,,,especially with my generosity toward him and my plight to get my jeep running again but give me a call, you would doo doo yourself at the numbers.and you may evan look at your helpful hero in a different light. :JEEPIN:

highironcrd · **Joined:** Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:52 pm **Posts:** 133

tjkj2002 wrote:

cevans wrote:

As for Geordi - does he get special treatment? Yes, he does, and he has earned it. No one else has done a fraction of the belt jobs he has done. I don't care if you like him or not, he knows more than you about this motor because he has done more with it. Geordi gets paid for the work he does, but he doesn't get paid for the time he spends answering questions on the forum. People need to be paid for their work, and paid fairly, but no one is forcing Geordi to give his own time and help forum members with questions.

Why again?

Oh because he's personally trashed more CRD's then most of you will ever own in your lifetime?

Sorry but with his track record with vehicles in general I wouldn't let him within 1000 miles of a lawn mower let alone one of my vehicles.He also refuses to read the owners manual and flat out said 5 of us lied that when flat towing a 4wd KJ with a auto trans the trans need to be in "P" and t-case in "N" after he melted a trans/t-case in his even after flat out saying he knows how to tow and what the owners manual and us stated was wrong and it was a defect with all Chrysler vehicles.

I'm also pretty sure he's trashed 3 or 4 engines of his own.

Sorry no one deserves anything with that track record.

And let him post I'm a troll again,it will come.

my witch is he ripped me off, and some of these guys say its my fault, well i own that ,my generosity was taken advantage offend this was not a one time hit by him,.call me some time i can give you a full break down, but don't call tuesday, heading to boca to file papers in court against him.more cost incurred, not an axe to grind, just a brotherly report to the jeep brotherhood.an honest assessment for you to judge, who cares if it blurred him,,it should!id be @$#% ashamed to do that to a brother, especially since he earned 6,750 = or - a few bucks before he stole another 2000, hey i go with you *&^^&* him.oh ! and MY JEEP STILL IS IN A GARAGE!he evan declined working off the debt. so yea were trolls but obviously the only honest ones. :JEEPIN:

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:34 am

Oh Good Lord!

You already admitted you've spent the last month on here trolling and looking for a fight. (friggin gang war, actually)

Your point has been made 100 times over.

We get it already.

Fight if you must, but you already stated you're filing court papers.

Fight There.

That's the proper place for such things.

NOT HERE!

PLEASE! Give us a darn break!

Save your fight for the darn enemy. Not the people around you.

If you REALLY served in Combat you would already know such things.

Geordi's threads VS others?

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