2005 Gateway module

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:52 pm

Thats what I thought it was.

Thanks

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:45 pm

The module may have to be programmed to work with the liberty because of all of the different protocols it has to handle.

Certainly the BCM on my family’s hybrid Ford had to be programmed because nothing worked at all until it was. I would be extremely suspicious of any of the different modules with the extra connector on the back being compatible without extensive work.

gollygeemister · **Posted:** Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:13 pm

The FCM is interchangeable between 2005 CRDs. I've personally done it for testing purposes. It brings in sensor data that is common to all of the vehicles.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:36 am

I stopped at the local Jeep dealer yesterday and got the Parts man to research the front control module (FCM) for me.
According to his computer the part number is only used on the 2005 Jeep Liberty Diesel and nothing else in his system!
So a dead end! :grim:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:46 pm

Billybob wrote:

TKB4 wrote:

Is this FCM/Gateway module near front headlight and battery tray on drivers side? If not does anyone have a pic of where it is located on the jeep? Does it have to be programmed to ECU or VIN ? I thought from earlier posts that it is basically just a bunch of connections and not computer driven.

Read the section "electronic modules" in the 2005 Jeep Service manual section 8E where they describe the ECM,BCMs etc. briefly.

They basically state that the FCM does not have any drivers in it but passes on the various Serial Data links. The picture shown in this topic definitely shows a lot of integrated modules though!

Shows a diagram of where it is located.

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

I’m currently looking at the 2005 KJ Powertrain Diesel.pdf and trying to identify what components communicate through the gateway/FCM/BCM (section 3.4.5).

It’s a lot of things. Including the AC pressure sensors.
But all the engine sensors and components go directly to the ECM.
The only exception is the SKIM module. It communicates through the FCM to the ECM. And without the SKIM signal the engine won’t start and run.

So if the SKIM could be bypassed or disabled, maybe the engine will run without the FCM in the circuit. And maybe the vehicle can be operated, just without features like ABS, instrument cluster, A/C, and whatever else.
I mean, there gotta be a way around this.
Just a thought.

(And yet another reason why my project car will be 100% analog)

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:57 pm

Also, it looks like pin 5 of the ignition switch connects to pin 8 of the BCM.
Might be a place to start.

Edit.
I actually don’t know if FCM and BCM are the same thing.

Edit.
Ugh. These wiring diagrams are hard to understand.
Fuse 33 appears to supply power to the communication bus :?:

1945GPW · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2014 8:37 pm **Posts:** 27

Well, still looking for a FCM. Received word today that amazon canceled my order. Noticed a week ago that they stopped taking new orders. So the cancelation was not a surprise. My junk yard finds have all been missing the FCM.

biggfisch · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:33 am

Got the same email from Amazon... Total bummer.

What refurbisher did you send your gateway module to, and told you they couldn't get a new possessor? I wonder if it would be possible to source a processor from the FCU of a WK or Commander... Maybe they'd be willing to try it out? Not really a whole lot of options remaining at this point...

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:03 pm

Obviously there are some discrepancies in the Chrysler documents, a Mopar trainer gave me what he had for an application list for the FCM.... And I struck out completely at multiple boneyards. Not one vehicle had the FCM where the documents said they should, and there weren't even any exposed holes to suggest that anything had already been picked.

I think the only source for these will be from part-outs of 05s. That is a problem b/c it is going to be a dwindling number.

Billybob · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:07 pm

biggfisch wrote:

Got the same email from Amazon... Total bummer.

What refurbisher did you send your gateway module to, and told you they couldn't get a new possessor? I wonder if it would be possible to source a processor from the FCU of a WK or Commander... Maybe they'd be willing to try it out? Not really a whole lot of options remaining at this point...

@biggfisch what exactly is the problem with your Jeep?

You stated that you have intermittent no-crank issues.
I this still the problem and what exactly are the symptoms?

I doubt that FCM will cause a no-crank problem....no start problem Maybe!

1945GPW · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2014 8:37 pm **Posts:** 27

I used National Parts. andy.b@moduleexperts.com. Andy Bell was the contact.
I have been tracking down the parts used in the FCM. The part I think I need is MC9S12DJ64. This parts seems to be the main processor. The main processor is the communication link for all of the computers if you will. I have been reading the specs on the various components. The FCM is way more than the manuals would lead you to believe. The main processor has a considerable amount of memory. There are 33 solder connections to the main processor in the JK diesel.
Not sure I have the skills for intricate soldiering. My guess is this part was also used in other vehicles. But, it would be very difficult to unsolder and resolder the part without damage. Have not found anyone who would sell me 1 or 2.
This has been an interesting search. Makes you appreciate the complexity of todays vehicles.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:48 pm

Side note, the hardware of the FCM is common with with other similar area DCJ vehicles. If we could read memory of a 05 CRD FCM we could possibly reflash another DCJ FCM to work the same in the 05 CRD.

Also, I haven't tested, but I dont see why the engine wouldn't run without a FCM working.

It wont be able to control the alternator since the excitor runs through the FCM, but it ought to run.
2 D25 18WT/VT PCI BUS
3 - -
4 - -
5 D21 20WT/GY SCI TRANSMIT (ECM)
6 - -
7 K302 20BR/WT ENGINE OIL PRESSURE SENSOR SIGNAL
8 D65 20WT/LG CAN C BUS (+)
9 D64 20WT/LB CAN C BUS (-)
10 K303 20BR/OR WATER IN FUEL SENSOR SIGNAL
11 K305 20BR/LB A/C PRESSURE SENSOR SIGNAL
12 - -
13 K347 20BR/PK FUSED ASD RELAY OUTPUT
14 K125 16BR/DG GEN FIELD CONTROL
15 - -
16 K301 20BR/LG 5 VOLT SUPPLY
17 K304 20BR/DB FUEL LEVEL SENSOR SIGNAL
18 - -
19 - -
20 K300 20BR SENSOR GROUND
21 - -
22 K310 20BR/DG A/C PRESSURE SENSOR GROUND
23 - -
24 Z932 18BK GROUND

Those are the signals from the FCM. The FCM passes these signals to the ECM by the CANBUS connection.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:49 pm

1945GPW wrote:

I used National Parts. andy.b@moduleexperts.com. Andy Bell was the contact.
I have been tracking down the parts used in the FCM. The part I think I need is MC9S12DJ64. This parts seems to be the main processor. The main processor is the communication link for all of the computers if you will. I have been reading the specs on the various components. The FCM is way more than the manuals would lead you to believe. The main processor has a considerable amount of memory. There are 33 solder connections to the main processor in the JK diesel.
Not sure I have the skills for intricate soldiering. My guess is this part was also used in other vehicles. But, it would be very difficult to unsolder and resolder the part without damage. Have not found anyone who would sell me 1 or 2.
This has been an interesting search. Makes you appreciate the complexity of todays vehicles.

You need more than just the processor, the actual code loaded for the 05 CRD is needed. See my comment above about cloning a FCM.

1945GPW · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2014 8:37 pm **Posts:** 27

You are right. The main processor holds from 32kb to 512kb of flash memory. We need to find the ability to transfer that memory to another processor.

Pins 8 and 9 are the CANBUS connection. If that were bad the ECM would not get the signals. Is that enough to shut the ECM down? My thought, yes. For example, Pin 7, If the ECM does not receive the engine oil pressure signal will the engine run? I do not have a running Liberty to try this, but if we disconnect the source for the oil pressure signal, will the engine start and run? My guess, no.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:13 pm

Quote:

If the ECM does not receive the engine oil pressure signal will the engine run?

My guess is yes.
All the oil pressure switch does is turn on the oil warning light.
After completing an oil change and starting the engine, my oil light will be on for 1-2 seconds and the engine does not shut down.

According to the manual, all instrument cluster functions go through the gateway module. Which kinda makes sense because the speedo and odo both work off the ABS system sensors and the ABS system also goes through the gateway module.

1945GPW · **Joined:** Mon May 05, 2014 8:37 pm **Posts:** 27

Flash- That makes sense. Sort of. The ECM still got the signal. Will the ECM function when it does not receive certain signals that go through the FCM?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:33 pm

1945GPW wrote:

Will the ECM function when it does not receive certain signals that go through the FCM?

That’s what I can’t pin down.
All engine sensors and electronics are wired directly to the ECM.
But according to what I saw when trying to interpret the wiring diagrams, ASD and SKIM both go through the gateway. And the ECM needs both of those.

biggfisch · **Posted:** Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:01 am

Not looking to hijack this thread, but since it's related....

My Jeep was experiencing an intermittant no-crank condition when 'hot'. I'd turn the key, and nothing would happen. All the lights would come on, it'd chime at me, but no startie. I say hot in quotes because it would usually occur at operating temp, but not when i'd first start it in the morning. Then, it started getting hot outside (90+) and I'd have to cycle the key once or twice before it would crank. When it left me stranded at work is when I decided it was probably over my head (been chasing it for a couple months at this point), and needed to call in the experts at the dealer. So I waited for the next morning when it was cool, fired it up, and drove it straight to the local service department. I had checked all the usual suspects at this point (ASD relay, replaced ignition switch, jumped the starter relay, etc.), and all my research was pointing to either the module itself, or something connected to it. Took it to the dealer, tech said the FCM wasn't communicating, told me to buy the Amazon module, and here we are now.

Went down there yesterday to tell them I couldn't get the module, and talked a bit with the tech. He claimed to have checked all the wiring, went through the diagnosis flowchart, and that it was 100% the module. He was pretty baffled when it fired right up, however. I'm not sure I agree that it's the module itself that's bad, so I brought it home to continue troubleshooting. They didn't charge me a dime, since they couldn't get the part, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.

I could always tell if it would crank or not. If the fuel gage would sweep when I turned the ignition, I knew it would light right up. If the gage didn't move, no dice. If left on, eventually the SKIM light would come back on, the low fuel light would come on, then the airbag light would come on, which is what directed me to the FCM in the first place. When it was in this state, I could jump the starter relay and it would crank fine, but wouldn't fire, so something was cutting off fuel too. Maybe related, I noticed the outside temp wouldn't show up on my EVIC if it wouldn't crank, which I guess would make sense if the signal is carried on the PCI or CAN bus. I did find a youtube vid of a guy with a gasser that was having the same problem, and his fix was a wire to the cluster. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAVNylWD1Yc

I'll update later after I've fooled with it a bit more.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:46 am

ECU behaves the same as if you have a invalid SKIM. runs for 3 seconds and then will not restart. if you clear the SKIM codes you can restart for 3 seconds and then it will not restart again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1mFYesTZDo

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:28 pm

biggfisch wrote:

Not looking to hijack this thread, but since it's related....

My Jeep was experiencing an intermittant no-crank condition when 'hot'. I'd turn the key, and nothing would happen. All the lights would come on, it'd chime at me, but no startie. I say hot in quotes because it would usually occur at operating temp, but not when i'd first start it in the morning. Then, it started getting hot outside (90+) and I'd have to cycle the key once or twice before it would crank. When it left me stranded at work is when I decided it was probably over my head (been chasing it for a couple months at this point), and needed to call in the experts at the dealer. So I waited for the next morning when it was cool, fired it up, and drove it straight to the local service department. I had checked all the usual suspects at this point (ASD relay, replaced ignition switch, jumped the starter relay, etc.), and all my research was pointing to either the module itself, or something connected to it. Took it to the dealer, tech said the FCM wasn't communicating, told me to buy the Amazon module, and here we are now.

Went down there yesterday to tell them I couldn't get the module, and talked a bit with the tech. He claimed to have checked all the wiring, went through the diagnosis flowchart, and that it was 100% the module. He was pretty baffled when it fired right up, however. I'm not sure I agree that it's the module itself that's bad, so I brought it home to continue troubleshooting. They didn't charge me a dime, since they couldn't get the part, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.

I could always tell if it would crank or not. If the fuel gage would sweep when I turned the ignition, I knew it would light right up. If the gage didn't move, no dice. If left on, eventually the SKIM light would come back on, the low fuel light would come on, then the airbag light would come on, which is what directed me to the FCM in the first place. When it was in this state, I could jump the starter relay and it would crank fine, but wouldn't fire, so something was cutting off fuel too. Maybe related, I noticed the outside temp wouldn't show up on my EVIC if it wouldn't crank, which I guess would make sense if the signal is carried on the PCI or CAN bus. I did find a youtube vid of a guy with a gasser that was having the same problem, and his fix was a wire to the cluster. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAVNylWD1Yc

I'll update later after I've fooled with it a bit more.

Have you chased the grounds? The power could be finding ground through another circuit (the AC compressor is a popular option) and it might be intermittent b/c of that.
The primary ground points are behind the driver's headlamp and under the engine fuse box, on the fender adjacent to the box, and on the firewall near the ECM.

2005 Gateway module

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