It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:44 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Dyno results, before and after Inmotion Stage II tune
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:55 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:42 am
Posts: 2044
Location: Fort Collins, CO
For particulars about the vehicle see http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=23547

Not much has changed since the baseline runs except the temperature 10 degrees lower, 500 more miles on the air filter, tires 2psi lower, and different tank of fuel (although from the same station and with the same concentration of additive).

Peak numbers are:

Before/After
hp: 159/189
ft.lbs: 347/386

For gains at the peak of 30hp and 39 ft-lbs, which is right in line with Inmotion's claims. However, there's an area around 2600 rpm where the gain is 60 ft-lbs! And down at 1800 rpm the gain is still a massive 50 ft-lbs! In fact, the lowest gains were seen at the old peaks. The curves are just dramatically fatter and flatter from end to end.

Here is the graph of runs after the tune:
Image

Here are the before and after runs on the same chart. The vertical line is just showing numbers at about the power peak. Compare red to blue for before and after, respectively.
Image

Even if, as mabelaker suggested in the original thread, you remove the roughly 20% SAE correction factor and subtract new vs. old numbers, you end up with gains of 27 hp and 37 ft-lbs at the peaks. The rest of the rpm range there are substantially higher gains. I asked the tech to email me the .drf files, so we'll see if he comes through.

I took some video at the rear of the vehicle during both sessions to compare visible smoke. There is definitely more after the tune, but it's nowhere near obscene. In fact the only reason you could see it was because the floor was white and the vehicle was sitting still. The air/fuel ratio dips to 14:1 at the lowest so there's still room to fatten it up once I beef up the torque converter, injectors allowing.

Overall I'm really pleased with the tune. It's a real joy to drive, and you can't beat the gains for $300. Inmotion's service was great.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:54 am 
Offline
LOST Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:24 pm
Posts: 493
Location: Sydney, AUSTRALIA
Very nice.
It's the area under the lines that matter the most :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:03 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:41 am
Posts: 396
Location: Tucson Arizona
Now we need to F37 your tranny to find out how much torque is lost!

Since you wont agree to this, maybe another dyno after you get the suncoast and shift kit?

Thanks for posting the results.

_________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------
06 CRD LTD - Suncoast TC- Shift Kit - Spicer UJ - FRKNLIFT - F37 - Magnaflow - 22.0 City - 24@65MPH - Fumoto F-102 - AUX T Cooler - Tank Lift Pump


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:15 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:07 am
Posts: 5842
Location: Colorado Baby!
ed. wrote:
Very nice.
It's the area under the lines that matter the most :)


if he gets the drf files we can actually look at that information, we have been doing 90th order regressions in the past to pretty accurately compare data with other dynos.

_________________
http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:23 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:41 am
Posts: 396
Location: Tucson Arizona
Newbie question, Ed,

what does the area under the curve give?

Bill

_________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------
06 CRD LTD - Suncoast TC- Shift Kit - Spicer UJ - FRKNLIFT - F37 - Magnaflow - 22.0 City - 24@65MPH - Fumoto F-102 - AUX T Cooler - Tank Lift Pump


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:30 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:07 am
Posts: 5842
Location: Colorado Baby!
Bill.Barg wrote:
Newbie question, Ed,

what does the area under the curve give?

Bill


Technically when we integrate the area under the curve I think we should be getting torque out.

_________________
http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:25 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:52 am
Posts: 3442
Location: Columbus, Ohio. USA
[quote="Bill.Barg"]Now we need to F37 your tranny to find out how much torque is lost!

Maybe the person who bought too TCM's thinking they were pre F37 can lend him one :wink:

_________________
Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:10 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:42 am
Posts: 2044
Location: Fort Collins, CO
If someone sends me an F37 TCM and $60, I'll do it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:29 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:23 am
Posts: 3539
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Are you saying that they only charge $300 for the InMotion now? That is much less than a bit ago.
Oh Yeah, how does it feel driving the new KJ CRD IM?

_________________
Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport

Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:08 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:27 pm
Posts: 264
Location: Phoenix, AZ
I just checked the InMotion website and they list the Stage 2 and Ecotune for $350. The full custom tune is $500.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:10 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:17 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Richfield WI
Since InMotion never responded to my email, perhaps some of you that have actually discussed their tuning parameters can explain what parameters are adjusted for $350 and what an additional $150 will net me?

I'm hoping to hear nice things like disabling the EGR and associated CEL, increased turbo boost pressure within safe operating limits, increased fueling, delete the speed limiter, increase the rev limit. The kind of stuff that puts a grin on your face, rubber on the road, soot in the air and generally makes the dent in your wallet seem worthwhile.

_________________
08 GC CRD Overland
Provent

05 Liberty CRD Limited
Rocketchip Level 1, Provent

03 Jetta TDI Wgn 5 spd
Rocketchip Level 5 with upgraded: turbo, DD clutch, fuel delivery, intake and exhaust systems. Deletes: EGR cooler, EGR, Cat.



If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you're reading it in English, thank a veteran.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:12 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:42 am
Posts: 2044
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Regarding the price, just call them and you can work something out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:00 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:35 pm
Posts: 445
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Ok, now I'm confused. If you have the InMotion program in the engine CPU, just how will the F37 TCM flash effect the horsepower and torque? Once the tranny is in high gear, it's up the motor. You are not measuring the shift points, or doing a simulated 1/4 mile, are you?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:34 am 
Offline
LOST Junkie

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:39 pm
Posts: 676
Location: Saylorsburg, PA
brew1 wrote:
I'm hoping to hear nice things like disabling the EGR and associated CEL, increased turbo boost pressure within safe operating limits, increased fueling, delete the speed limiter, increase the rev limit. The kind of stuff that puts a grin on your face, rubber on the road, soot in the air and generally makes the dent in your wallet seem worthwhile.


I'm with brew1. The first outfit that can implement the full ORM kit effects in software has my money.

- Chris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:41 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:52 am
Posts: 3442
Location: Columbus, Ohio. USA
chrispitude wrote:
I'm with brew1. The first outfit that can implement the full ORM kit effects in software has my money.

- Chris

To that add "UN F37"

_________________
Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:43 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 3872
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
bhysjulien wrote:
I just checked the InMotion website and they list the Stage 2 and Ecotune for $350. The full custom tune is $500.


Check eBay. I saw the stage 1 and 2 listed for$300 with buy it now.

_________________
Bought my '05 CRD on June 2nd '07, used with 29,000 miles.
intake elbow and EGR delete. 7 volt Etecno glow plugs
Yeti stage 2 ECU tune. Straight pipe exhaust. DIY intercooler hoses
Provent and modified factory 180F thermostat
Replaced cylinder head (cracked) at 160,000 miles + ARP studs
Cheap 1 inch lift, 245-75R-16 tires.
Still love it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:48 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:17 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Richfield WI
If Jeff Roberts (Rocket Chip)wasn't up to his eyeballs tuning VW TDI ECU's I'd pester him to see what he can do for a CRD. Hell, maybe I'll pester him anyway. I think we would need to get enough folks together that would be interested in having him work up a performance tune that does all of the things I mentioned to make it worth his while.

If your wondering who Rocket Chip is, head over to Freds TDI forum and do a search. Inmotion Tuning isn't much of a player for tuning VW diesels so it doesn't surprise me they don't have much to offer for tuning a CRD either.

_________________
08 GC CRD Overland
Provent

05 Liberty CRD Limited
Rocketchip Level 1, Provent

03 Jetta TDI Wgn 5 spd
Rocketchip Level 5 with upgraded: turbo, DD clutch, fuel delivery, intake and exhaust systems. Deletes: EGR cooler, EGR, Cat.



If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you're reading it in English, thank a veteran.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:38 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:30 pm
Posts: 443
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Turbo Tim,

From what I understand, the ECM and TCM talk to one another. The ECM sends info over to the TCM as to what the HP and torque are. It actually sends a whole bunch of information like air temp, air flow, etc. The TCM then determines, using the supplied information, when to shift. We'll call this the "baseline".The F37 essentially changes the shift points through a different "baseline". The motor is still working the same but power is put to the ground via the transmission, and with the F37, the transmission is now nuetered to some degree because of the new "baseline". Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Dave

_________________
2005 Black CRD Sport
All J CRD Frankenlift with 500 fronts, Boulderbars, and Superskid
Kilby Gas Skid
Yukon Rear Axles
265/75 16 TrXus M/T's and Bridgestone Revo's
Fumoto Valve
Aero Turbine 2525
Rock Lizard Komodo Bumper
Sundance Custom's Front Bumper


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:19 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 9:35 pm
Posts: 445
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
I understand why and how the shift points change with different driving conditions, temps, etc... What didn't make sense is once the tranny is done shifting, it's up to the engine to do the rest.

From my experience when we dyno a off road car, we shif through the gears, but once your in high gear, you nail it and "Most" tests start at 50 mph and go through 110 mph. Of course the start and finish points can be changed, etc., but how fast you get from the starting mph to the finish mph, that's the test (no shifts allowed). The time from start to finish, with the weight of the car, other factors, etc.., equal horsepower (and torque).

Now if the converter is unlocking, etc., that will change the numbers....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:15 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: All Over, AZ
My understanding was that the TCM can request a power reduction (like ESP does) from the ECM whenever it is overheating, regardless of gear. If that does not make things better and the temp gets out of control it will trigger limp mode. It is also my understanding the DC is using this signal to lower the torque in lockup when cruising to save the paper mache lockup clutch. InMotion said they could flash the ECM to ignore these power reduction requests, however that would be hazardous as if your tranny was overheating the ECM would not reduce power. I wish I could remember where I got all this from, it could be totally wrong.

_________________
Former Jeep: 2006 CRD Dark Khaki Sport. Favorite upgrade: For Sale Sign.
See here: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2662913/1
Current Jeeps: 1965 Wagoneer (Restomod in progress): http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... =36&t=7378

1967 Waggoneer (parts)

1994 XJ, long-arms and stuff...

2017 Renegade... snow cummuter


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com