4wd.com brings the suck

InCommando · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:40 am

I have read bad reviews of this company, but as they are at least in-state I thought I would give them a shot.

I wanted an oil-fliter relocation kit for the MJ to get rid of the upside-down oil filter that the early 4.0 I6' came with originally. 4wd lists the exact same part, by #, as summitracing.com. 4wd.com loudly touts their excellent customer service and price-matching so I emailed them, correctly using their lengthy price match request process to a "t", to request said price match. This is what followed:

Initial response to my price match request: Thank you for requesting a price match from 4 Wheel Drive. All of us at 4 Wheel Drive want to earn your business. Please allow 24 hours for a response to your request (weekend and holiday emails will be answered the next business day).

Followed by:
In a message dated 7/22/2010 12:41:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jgarvin@4wd.com writes:
Don,

Unfortunately we don’t handle the oil filter relocation kit any longer, thanks for the inquiry.

Jim

Jim Garvin

Sales Representative

44488 State Route 14

Columbiana, OH 44408

800-333-5535 x806

Fax: 330-482-5035

Email: jgarvin@4wd.com

To which I replied:

Mr. Garvin:

I am writing to inform you that I have complaint regarding your false advertisement in regards to price matching and parts availability.

Instead of price-matching a product as I requested, you claimed that you no longer carry the product. However, a of today's date, you not only list the product but your site allows it to be purchased at your 20% higher cost than that of you competitor. http://www.4wd.com/shoppingcart.aspx

I find your business practices distasteful. I am certainly going to publicize your actions, including your email and a screen shot of your company allowing me to purchase the product (should I have wished to) at the original price after your claims that you no longer carry the product, to as wide an audience as possible via the Internet groups to which I belong. I am certain that you will claim that the product is not available, but even if that is true it speaks volumes about your customer service regarding the accuracy of your company's product claims, doesn't it?

Now, before anyone questions the length of time it takes to update an inventory count on a computerized ordering system (I am certain that they utilize one) or to remove items from a website, please note that I am in a managerial postion with a multi-billion dollar mail order company that relies heavily on an online catalog. It is a very simple process to have your inventory updated with each sale; your local autozone, et al...does it, as does your Kroger's or whatever. That would prevent the item from being ordered when it is out of stock. However, they WANT you to order it without knowing it is back ordered because their "friendly customer service" includes trying to trick you. 4wd.com is a large company with dozens of outlets: surely they have a full time IT/web department that can remove an item that they CLAIM they no longer carry with a few keystrokes, not a few weeks. Reputable companies doe it all of the time.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:47 pm

Good info, IC.

InCommando · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:45 pm

To follow up, Mr Garvin replied that the product is only available in bulk form and he "knew" I only wanted one of them. However, the lying SOB then continues that the price on the website for a single kit $59.99 and is available that way...WTH? Why are you listing a single item when you can only buy it by the case? the answer, of ocurse, is that you do not have to buy a case

Don,

When I checked your price match in my ordering system it indicated no longer available due to issues from a recent merger with a company we recently joined with. They had entered the NLA information because

That item was only available in bulk form for a while and I knew you didn’t need a case of them. It is still available as a special order item, we don’t stock it here but I can order it in. The price match you indicate

As our competitor is actually us, we are 4wd.com and I’ll need the info on where you had seen the item at a lower price, ours is $59.99. When it is entered into the cart so see any price break it stays at $59.99.

The number once again is PMA10695.

-Jim

To which I responded:

You do not list them by the case on the web site: you list them by the single piece and your company allowed me to add one to my cart today. That is the link I included in my prior email. I carried the transaction as far as possible before actual purchase. If you are aware that the product is only available in case form, or not at all, why are you still deceptively advertising this item for single purchase? I will repeat the YOU ARE AWARE of the issue yet allow the condition to continue. As your company will allow me to purchase the part today, just as it would the day that I made the price match request. That fact makes it look like you are either dodging a price match or you are trying to get people to give you money for a product that you cannot provide it a timely manner, but for which you will gladly hold onto the money. You even acknowledge in your email, buy saying you checked the web site, that the product that you "no longer carry" (your words) is being offered for sale, and singularly not in bulk as you claim. Fairly contradictory, yes?

In my initial email contact requesting the price match I included a link, as requested, for summitracing.com and the exact part # being sold for $47.95: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRM-10695/. Perhaps the true story here is that you use your own part # in a SKU fashion to avoid the price match. Perma-cool's number is 10695. The prefix of PRM or PMA is, according to perma-cool, the designation that YOUR company uses to identify the product line internally. It is a sweet deal when you make up your own numbers so that you will never need to price match. I think it is clear that the 10695 kit by perma-cool is the same from your site to Summit's and any claims to the contrary are an attempt at misdirection at best.

STINGN · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:49 pm

That's pretty sad that they change the upc or product code just to make a few bucks

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:31 pm

As a former Logistics/Supply person in the Air Guard, I know for a fact the system will update immediately.

It is obvious this company is trying to shaft their potential buyers. Buyer beware obviously.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:19 pm

Summit Racing has major availability reporting issues too, ran into it more than half the time I've ordered stuff from them to the point I always call prior to ordering anything and end up just ordering on the phone now

You could easily charge people for that communication service dealing with some companies we have to deal with IC

InCommando · **Posted:** Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:10 pm

SO, to make things worse:

I won a $50 promo card from 4wd.com. I place an order for some bumper end caps and the like, trying to get as close to $50 as possible as at this point I do not want to really do business with 4wd/4wheelparts same people.

My total with shipping and tax =

Subtotal: $42.35
Shipping: $9.99
Tax: $3.99
Gift Card ***************9471 Applied: -$50.00
Grand Total: $6.33

I have to add my debit card for the remaining $6.33 and authorized ONLY that amount. Guess what? The thieving bastids charged all $56.33 to my debit card! A totally unauthorized charge.

So I emailed them:

Folks, we have a serious issue here with you making an unauthorized deduction from my account. This receipt shows that you were authorized to deduct $6.33 from my account. You in fact deducted the entire $56.33. This deduction is fraudulent and completely unauthorized. I expect the stolen $50.00 to be credited to my account IMMEDIATELY.
Subtotal: $42.35
Shipping: $9.99
Tax: $3.99
Gift Card ***************9471 Applied: -$50.00
Grand Total: $6.33

And from my account:

7/28/2010 Deb Card Withdrawal X TO S008 718025 *POS* 4 WHEEL DRIVE #823 COLUMBIANA OH 000 ($56.33)
Blue = copy & paste from actual documents

There was a phone conversation saying that I should relex, they do this on EVERY gift card charge and that within 3 or 4 business days the $50 will be returned! I go through the roof and they insist it is their standard practice. They say if I do all of the leg work to get a form from my bank saying that the charge was unauthorized and fax it to them, they would sign it and fax it to my bank in the hope that it would speed up the refund process. WTH?

Their email response:

The entire amount deducted is a pre-authorization only. The funds will release back into the account within 24-48 hours. If you need the funds released sooner we would need to know what information the bank needs from us, a contact name, and fax or e-mail address. I am sorry for the confusion and inconvenience.

Thank you,
Judy
4WD Customer Service

These people are thieves. Their charging my card is illegal and not standard industry practice.

03CDKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:21 pm

I had no problem using my $50 gift card.... and they did NOT charge me the full amount...
I think they know it's YOU! :goink:

InCommando · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:20 am

Did you go over the $50? This was one of the things they could not explain to me:

If you stay under $50, they do not require a card and let it go.

If you go over $50 or whatever the promo card amount was) the "system" automatically dings the account fo rthe whole amount. I have them, LOL.

03CDKJ · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:34 am

InCommando wrote:

Did you go over the $50? This was one of the things they could not explain to me:

If you stay under $50, they do not require a card and let it go.

If you go over $50 or whatever the promo card amount was) the "system" automatically dings the account fo rthe whole amount. I have them, LOL.

Mine was over $100.... They charged me only $50 something :goink:

InCommando · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:17 pm

Bas Tards!

So further on their sucking: They flat lied and told me that this was S.O.P. on ALL promo card orders that go over face value.

03CDKJ · **Posted:** Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:51 pm

Hey don... Did you do all of this over the internet? Or did you talk to someone on the phone....

InCommando · **Posted:** Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:45 am

much was on the phone....

SurfGuitar141 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:47 pm

I have my own beef with that company.
Went to order the Daystar 2.5" lift kit from them, got to the final stage of the check-out process, and they try to nail me with a $168.00 shipping and handling fee.....

.....I back right out of that, ordered from one of their competitors who ony charged me $16.00 shipping and handling......
4WD.com / 4wheelparts.com is already on my hate list......they are..... :dead:

.....to me.........

jnaut · **Posted:** Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:00 pm

SurfGuitar141 wrote:

I have my own beef with that company.
Went to order the Daystar 2.5" lift kit from them, got to the final stage of the check-out process, and they try to nail me with a $168.00 shipping and handling fee.....

.....I back right out of that, ordered from one of their competitors who ony charged me $16.00 shipping and handling......
4WD.com / 4wheelparts.com is already on my hate list......they are..... :dead:

.....to me.........

Any company which uses shipping and handling as a profit center is :dead:

to me.

InCommando · **Posted:** Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:25 am

Any time that I see shipping charges based on how much you spend, not what you buy, I realize that I am being taken for a ride.

I recently worked for the largest mail order/internet clothing retailer in the world. They get a huge break on shipping due to volume. With most orders, their cost for shipping is a buck or two: often the huge price-based shipping charges alone pay for the actual cost of the merchandise purchased.

I will give Summit & jegs props for their standard "free shipping but $9.99 handling charge" unless you get into large/heavy items.

I did get my order from 4wd.com in a timely manner, and the quality is exactly what I expected from cheap chinese knock-off crap. They refunded my $56.33 and RECHARGED $6.33. Potentially, they could have cost me an overdraft fee by stealing $50 originally and, due to the f-ed up processing of credits vs charges, another over draft fee when the charged my account for a 2nd time....

4wd.com brings the suck

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