Water crossings, WARNING!!

djui5 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:38 am **Posts:** 536

If you decide to take your heep across the water, think twice please. I just replaced the passenger axle assembly and will have to do the drivers soon too because I was playing around in the water. The splines where the inner axle shaft meet the CV shaft are NOT SEALED, so you can and will get water in there that will RUST and cause your connection to come loose/slip, which in turn causes all sorta problems like CV axles clicking, vibration at freeway speeds, etc. I have no idea why this isn't sealed up, but I'm surprised more people haven't had the same problems. Just wanted to let you all know. Gonna be embarrassed if this has been discussed here. :oops:

Drassis · **Joined:** Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:31 pm **Posts:** 182

Beats me but I do know alot of people do play in the water

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:24 pm

oops double

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:24 pm

This thread scared me since it was posted just before I was to replace my CVs. All the trails in FL are under water and it was often that I'd be in water up to the hood. With a MOAB trip coming this weekend and no one having any parts in stock (except the axles) I was very concerned that I would need to replace more than the axles.

When the shafts came out this morning, the internals were clean and moist with lubricating fluids.

Everything went back together slammy jammy.

KJ 119 · **Posted:** Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:30 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

All the trails in FL are under water and it was often that I'd be in water up to the hood.

I'll second that.This past trip was the driest I've seen it,but go today and back up to the hood.
You can't just not go.

djui5, thanks for giving us scuba drivers something to keep an eye on. :wink:

djui5 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:38 am **Posts:** 536

JL Rockies wrote:

When the shafts came out this morning, the internals were clean and moist with lubricating fluids.

Everything went back together slammy jammy.

It's not inside the boots or anywhere like that. You have to smack the inner axle out of the CV axle. The inside CV boot connects to a large round part of the axle, and on the other side is where the inner axle shaft meets it. You'll notice the inner axle is shiny where it meets the CV, this is where the inner axle bearing is. You need to take these 2 axles apart at this joint to look for the rust. I have the spare and will take a picture later to post it so everyone knows where to look.

KJ 119,
You're welcome

Never thought something like this would happen till it happened to me. Only been in really deep water twice.

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:12 pm

it also happens just from normal wear and use... especially around my area (snow and salt belt). chris, the crazy guy with all the red bling under his jeep has some good pictures of what your describing..

water does increase wear on parts.. especially bearings... but i do not believe it was the only reason your CV's rusted like they did. i have gone through a lot of water and my CV's are still like new.. but my jeep only has 30,000 miles. i imagine at 60,000 miles my CV's will be rusty and need replaced... and i'm not going to blame it on the water crossings or mud

tommudd · **Posted:** Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:56 pm

Two times in water would not of done it, mines got over 126,000 miles and has seen snow, ice, salt, and many, many water crossings even driving up and down creeks just for the fun of it and no problems. Its just something that happens to all vehicles

djui5 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:38 am **Posts:** 536

Pics. BTW, by water crossing I mean water up to the hood, not small creek crossings

I crossed the Verde River about 6 times, and ran the Jeep through a flooded area up to the hood twice.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:27 pm

Nice pics but Im curious, that joint looks to me like it has normal surface rust on it??

Where are the rings that hold it in place?

LIV42DY · **Posted:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:36 pm

Normal surface rust and normal wear, but when you put it all back together grease it up. the grease will mimimize the rust. for anyway.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:06 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Nice pics but Im curious, that joint looks to me like it has normal surface rust on it??

Where are the rings that hold it in place?

It starts as "normal" surface rust but can in a short time turn into damaging corrosion if left unchecked in that spot that see's high torque loads(in 4wd).Just think of it this way---clean all the grease out of your rear driveshaft slip yoke and see how long it last's,same concept.

djui5 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:38 am **Posts:** 536

tjkj2002 wrote:

It starts as "normal" surface rust but can in a short time turn into damaging corrosion if left unchecked in that spot that see's high torque loads(in 4wd).Just think of it this way---clean all the grease out of your rear driveshaft slip yoke and see how long it last's,same concept.

Exactly. Even driving on the highway with it being rusted like that it wasn't sitting properly in the splines, so it would vibrate REALLY bad. Anything over 75mph and it felt like the Jeep was going to fall apart.

I didn't put this axle back into the Jeep, it was replaced with another axle assembly. Gotta do the drivers side next. I have no idea what happened to the ring that held it in, but the axle didn't come apart easily as I had to hammer them apart. I think the ring fell out when I took it apart and I never bothered to put it back in since I wasn't going to use the axle. Hope that clears up your questions.

BTW, this isn't "normal" surface rust. It was worse when I first took it out. The splines on the axle were so rusted that there wasn't much "groove" left for the CV side to grip into.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:28 am

I just replaced my CVs to solve my clunking problems but it didn't. Which means despite all my water wheeling the CVs are still OK. But, it they do go bad, that part is replaced when you replace the axle anyway and remans are not that expensive at NAPA.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:30 am

I'm not sure where in the US it's legal to drive over 75 mph anyway. :wink:

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:18 am

Out in Montana there is, or used to be, no speed limit on the highway.

On to the axle topic: Those splines appear to be outside of the axle housing meeting up between the halfshaft and inner axle. [correct?] I understand there is concern about rust on the spline - but I am not sure if I need to run out and buy new axles at this moment...

Someone show me a failed axle because of this problem and I will change my mind. Better yet - someone show me a Lifted KJ, running 31" Heavy Tires where this issue caused a failure of the spline and then I will be concerned.

Not trying to be negative, just playing devils advocate since there are a lot of "rust belt" KJ's out there.

djui5 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:38 am **Posts:** 536

sleeve84028 wrote:

On to the axle topic: Those splines appear to be outside of the axle housing meeting up between the halfshaft and inner axle. [correct?]

Yeah, this is where the inner axle and half shaft connect together.

Quote:

Someone show me a failed axle because of this problem and I will change my mind.

You're looking at one.

Initially I "thought" I had a CV joint failing because it would click while going around corners, like when a CV joint is failing. I thought it was strange that the boots weren't torn though. I took the Jeep to an axle shop on an unrelated issue and they informed me about this connection and how it will rust out causing the splines to slip. Between the clicking while turning (and going straight if I hit the gas hard enough), and the vibration at freeway speeds I knew something wasn't right. Also when I would shake the large part of the half shaft while it was still on the Jeep it would move around a LOT, which is bad. This is the large part in the picture where the inner CV boot connects. Well I bought a new axle assembly and when we were replacing it I found this rust/problem. This is what failed.

So to recap these rusted splines caused the following:

Inner part of half shaft to move around at axle housing connection
Insane vibration at speeds 70 and above
Clicking similar to when a CV join fails while cornering and also while going straight under heavy acceleration.

Had there been power to this axle I probably woulda broke something. You have to remember that the Jeep doesn't put power to this axle unless it's in 4wd. So all these noises/vibrations were caused by the axle just spinning without power applied. :shock:

I really hope that explains it better. You don't have to get a new axle to check for an issue here. You'll know it when it happens. If you hear your CV's clicking, make sure you check this connection before replacing them especially if your boots are fine.

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:54 pm

OK, I thought (before) that you were replacing the CV's and then found this area. But now I understand.

tumanator · **Posted:** Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:01 pm

sleeve84028 wrote:

Out in Montana there is, or used to be, no speed limit on the highway.

Oh there's a speed limit believe me, just not always a cop :lol:

djui5 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:38 am **Posts:** 536

sleeve84028 wrote:

OK, I thought (before) that you were replacing the CV's and then found this area. But now I understand.

Nope

This is why I kept explaining it. Figured I wasn't getting it across properly.

Water crossings, WARNING!!

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