Small informative contest...CRD Sticker reward

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:24 pm

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 4&start=30

Basically, the first with an informative explaination of how ESP works in 2WD, 4WDHi and 4WDLo. We need to find out if the settings are different in each...does the computer turn off or modify the signal depending on drive mode?

rs4mtnitro · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:40 pm

It senses wheel spin with abs sensors and yaw with steering wheel sensor and adjusts with engine speed and breaking from there. In 4low it is shut off completely. 2hi and 4hi are the same, on untill you shut it off. I experienced in the sand last month that even when shut off in 2 hi or 4 hi sometimes the traction control part still came on.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:58 pm

So we still need to find out the exact sequence of things...You might still be the winner...we will see.

Points deducted for breaking+braking :lol:

We want one but not the other

and comment that is can be turned off in 2WD and 4WDHI but still sometimes the traction control works...we need specific answers to all questions...

Thanx

rs4mtnitro · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:18 pm

I have only experienced it in snow but I believe if the wheel is straight and tire spin occurs it only activates traction control and if the wheel is turned with tire spin the engine cuts power.
As for the traction control in the sand, now that I think about it there was a few times under heave load I let off the throttle and the engine shut off which when I restarted the engine it would have defaulted back to ESP on.

Sorry about the improper grammar. I use to not no how too spell truck driver, now I are one.

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:24 pm

I believe that Continental automotive systems makes the ESP system for the liberty. I tried to contact them but for some reason or another the PC at work cant do it. Here is the link to the page I was at

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/w ... ct_en.html

maybe someone else can get that page to work. I would like some free stickers but I would rather have the answer to a question I asked awhile back

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:39 pm

Well I think we have two winners...one for telling it by experience and one in the KJ4x4 section that saw a TV show about the systems.

Basically in 4WDHI and 4WDLO the ESP is disabled and the ERM ( Rollover Management) is disabled. The "Traction Control" remains functional and does help a bunch off road...like a good LSD or close to it (probably why DC didn't make LSD an option on the newer KJs with ESP,...,...,Traction control). ABS gets modified when 4WDLO is engaged.

The TV show had TJs they tested and they commented that the Traction Control made a huge difference.

rs4mtnitro, what decal do you want? PM me with your choice and address...Good Job!

XJJeepGirl · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:32 pm

If you bothered to read the users manual, you would know about the 5 electronic systems and what they do. What is up with MEN not reading manuals or directions for that matter? One of the first things I did when I bought my CRD is read the manual from front to back. Anyway, here are the five systems:

ELECTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL SYSTEM
Your vehicle is equipped with an advanced electronic brake control system that includes
ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System)
TCS (Traction Control System)
BAS (Brake Assist System)
ERM (Electronic Rollover Mitigation)
ESP (Electronic Stability Program)
All five sysstems work together to enhance vehicle stability and control in various driving conditions are commonly referred to as ESP.

ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) This system aids the driver in maintaining vehicle control under adverse braking conditions. The system control hydraulic brake pressure to prevent wheel lock-up and helps avoid skidding on slippery surfaces during braking.

TCS (Traction Control System) This system monitors the amount of wheel spin of each of the driven wheels. If wheel spin is detected, brake pressure is applied to the slipping wheel(s) and engine power is reduced to provide enhanced acceleration and stability. A feature of the TCS system functions similiar to a limited slip differential and controls the wheel spin across a driven axle. If one wheel on a driven axle is spinning faster than the other, the system will apply the brake of the spinning wheel. This will allow more engine torque to be applied to the wheel that is not spinning. This feature remains active even if TCS and ESP are in the "Partial Off" mode. Refer to "ESP (Electronic Stability Program)" in this section.

BAS (Brake Assist System) The BAS is designed to optimize the vehicle's braking capability during emergency braking maneuvers. The system detects and emergency braking maneuvers. The system detects and emergency braking situation by sensing the rate and amount of brake application and then applies optimum pressure to the brakes. This can help reduce braking distances. The BAS complements the anti-lock brake system (ABS). Applying the brakes very quickly results in the best BAS assistance. To receive the benefit of the system, you must apply continuous braking pressure during the stopping sequence. Do not reduce brake pedal pressure unless braking is no longer desired, Once the brake pedal is releaced, the BAS is deactivated.

ERM (Electronic Rollover Mitigation) This system anticipates the potential for wheel lift by monitoring the dirver's steering wheel input and the speed of the vehicle. When ERM determines that the rate of change of the steering wheel angle and vehicles speed are sufficent to potentially cause wheel lift, it applies the appropriate brake and may reduce engine power to lessen the chance that wheel lift will occur. ERM will only intervene during a very severe or evasive driving maneuvers. ERM can only reduce the chance of wheel lift occurring during severe or evasive driving maneuvers. It can not prevent wheel lift due to other factors such as road conditions, leaving the roadway or striking objects or other vehicles.

ESP (Electronic Stability Program) This system enhances directional control and stability of the vehicle under various driving conditions. ESP corrects for over/under steering of the vehicle by applyingthe brake of the appropriate wheel to assist in counteracting the over/under steer condition. Engine power may also be reduced to help the vehicle maintain the desired path. ESP uses sensors in the vehicle to determine the vehicle path intended by the driver and compares it to the actual path of the vehicle. When the actual path does not match the intended path, ESP applies the brake of the appropriate wheel to assist in counteracting the oversteer or understeer condition

Understeer - when the vehicle is turning less than appropriate for the steering wheel position.

ESP/TCS Indicator LightThe "ESP/TCS Indicator Light" located in the instrument cluster, starts to flash as soon as the tires loose traction and the ESP system becomes active, The "ESP/TCS Indicatior Light" also flashes when TCS is active. If the "ESP/TCS Indicator Light" begins to flash during acceleration, ease up on the accelerator and apply as little throttle as possible. Be sure to adapt your speed and driving to the prevailing road conditions.

The ESP system has 2 availiable operating modes in 2WD, 4WD Part Time, 4WD Full Time (Selec-Trac Only), and on 2WD vehicles. The system has a single operating mode in 4WD Low Range.

High Range (4WD Part Time, 4WD Full Time) or 2WD Models

ESP On This is the normal operating mode for ESP in 2WD, 4WD Part Time, 4WD Full Time (Selec-Trac Only), and on 2WD vehicles. Whenever the vehicle is started or the transfer case (if equipped) is shifted from 4WD low range or neutral back to 4WD high range or 2WD, the ESP system will be in this mode. This mode should be used for most all driving situations. ESP should only be turned off for specific reasons as noted below.

Partial Off This mode is entered by momentarily depressing the "ESP Control Switch" (located on top of the steering column). When in "Partial Off" mode, the TCS portion of ESP, except for the "limited slip" feature described in the TCS section, has been disabled and the "ESP/TCS Indicator Light" will be illuminated. All other stability features of ESP function normally. This mode is intended to be used if the vehicle is in deep snow, sand or gravel condtions and more wheel spin than ESP would normally allow is required to gain traction. To turn ESP on again, momentarilly depress the "ESP Control Switch". Thsi will restor the normal "ESP On" mode of operation.

4WD Low Range

Partial Off This is the normal operating mode for ESP in 4WD low range. Whenever the vehicle is started in 4WD low range or the transfer case (if equipped) is shifted from 2WD, 4WD high range, or neutral to 4Wd low range, the ESP system will be in this mode. In 4WD low range, ESP and TCS, except for the "limited slip" feature described in the TCS section, are turned off until the vehicle reaches a speed of 30 mph. At 30 mph, the normal ESP stability function returnes but TCS remains off. When the vehicle speed drops below 25 mph the ESP ssytem shuts off. ESP is off at low vehicle speeds in 4WD low range so that it will not interfere with off-road driving but ESP function returns to provide the stability feature at speeds above 30 mph. The "ESP/TCS Indicator Light" will always be illuminated in 4WD low range when ESP is off.

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:45 pm

I havn't gotten to read the manual because my wife has the jeep, and manual, all of the time!!

Thanks for postint that for us though.

So if I am reading this correctly when in 4LO we still have traction control but it will not cut back the throttle like it would in any other mode?

alljeep · **Posted:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:03 am

Jeger wrote:

I havn't gotten to read the manual because my wife has the jeep, and manual, all of the time!!

Thanks for postint that for us though.

So if I am reading this correctly when in 4LO we still have traction control but it will not cut back the throttle like it would in any other mode?

Yes, and basically simulates having a front and rear locker - which is much more action then I get in my '05 in 4LO.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:22 am

KJJeepGirl wrote:

If you bothered to read the users manual, you would know about the 5 electronic systems and what they do. What is up with MEN not reading manuals or directions for that matter?

When they have questions on Jeopardy...it is not because they can not find the answer written down in an Encylopedia...it is to reward players for participating in the game! When a parent asks a child a question, it is not because the parent doesn't know the answer...

Three reasons I did this little contest...to give away a couple of Decals...get people to look in thier Jeep Manuals...and hopefully to get a good write up that could go into the Technical Writting section. I got 2 out of 3...

I still need the write up...not just a complete repost of the manual...but that is a good start. I am still looking for a write up with all the information that you listed above that is authored by a L.O.S.T. member. Interested???

rs4mtnitro · **Posted:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:15 pm

And here I thought the question was about ESP not
ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System)
TCS (Traction Control System)
BAS (Brake Assist System)
ERM (Electronic Rollover Mitigation).

Jeger · **Posted:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:23 pm

I dont know about others but I, probably wrongfully, say ESP when talking about the entire system. I guess I should say EBC for Electronic Brake Control.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Quote:

If you bothered to read the users manual, you would know about the 5 electronic systems and what they do. What is up with MEN not reading manuals or directions for that matter?

If women came with a manual it would be titled: maintenence. Of course, men would never read it anyway because we just trade them in for a newer model when we get bored with the old one.

jinstall · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:52 am

You cannot turn the ESP off completely, I have tried and tried and tried, no dice. I hit the ESP about 5 times aweek, wet or dry pavement. Hence my tires willbe finished at 10K.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

My post, and the other, were not wrong in what they stated. The parent post just misposted the 4-HI part (probably meant to say ESP was on in 4-hi, reduced in 4-lo). My post included the same snippet from the manual as KJGirls... cause I actually did read it. But it is a confusing read, which is why people are still asking questions.

It is too bad the manual uses ESP to refer to "electronic stability program" AND as a general catch all for all five seperate systems. It makes the manual difficult to follow and confusing.

Another bit of confusion relates to "Partial Mode" ESP. Note that after reading the section a third time-- I noticed there are two reduced function ESP modes both called by the name "Partial ESP mode". I missed that the first two times-- assuming they were the same mode. So my first post did not clarify that. (It was not the question, however, The question only concerned how ESP changed in relation to 4-HI and 4-LO-- it did not mention the "ESP control switch".)

Note that some posters have mentioned the ESP control switch and indicated that they think it is some thing they have to press to turn on ESP, which would make sense because it lights up the dash when you press it-- making you think you turned something on. But if you read it, it says: "ESP OFF", which is a fairly good clue as to its real purpose-- to disable something.

To confuse things further... it does not disable what it says. It does not disable the Electronic Stability Program, nor does it disable all 5 programs. It only disables the TCS subsytem, and it does not even disable all of that.

Also note that you have to assume that when the manual states ESP is off in 4Lo below 30 MPH-- that ESP means only Electronic Stability Program and not that all 5 systems are off. (You have to figure this out from context, as it is used along side the "TCS" acronym and is talking about steering control in relation to ESP.) It is a very confusing usage that requires you to implicitly derive the correct meaning.

So, are you confused yet? Good. Now let me try to clarify what I think the manual is trying to tell you:

The 5 subsytems from the manual are listed in an above post. I am going to call all 5 of these systems collectively-- electronic vehicle control, instead of ESP. This is to diffrentiate electronic vehicle control from the other usage of ESP (Electronic Stability Program), and because I hate MSA's (More Stupid Acronyms).

Two "partial modes" of the electronic vehicle control system exist and one normal mode exists. The normal mode is the default, and is automatically engaged in everything but 4-LOW. The "normal mode" consists of all five components of the electronic vehicle control system fully operational and active.

The first of the two "partial modes" is controlled by the ridiculously named "ESP control switch". Erase that name from your head, because that is not what it does.
The "ESP switch" does not affect the Electronic Stability Program! Instead, it disengages the throttle reduction feature of the Traction Control System. It leaves the electronic "limited slip" portion of the Traction Control System active. A better name for the switch would be "TCS control switch" or "Throttle Reduction Override switch".

The second "Partial mode" is engaged by going to 4-LO. This mode actually does disengage ESP (the steering control- not all 5 components of the electronic vehicle control system). It only does this, however, below 30 MPH, after which it disengages-- until, as stated in the lovely manual, it reingages upon slowing to 25 MPH. It also removes the throttle reduction feature of TCS, regardless of speed. The electronic "limited slip" feature of TCS is left enabled, in the same fashion as in the first "Partial Mode".

So three modes exist: one normal, one only for 4-LO, and one override mode that is hooked to the switch above the steering wheel. The name of said button we do not mention!

Small informative contest...CRD Sticker reward

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