Apples to oranges: 2006 Liberty CRD vs. used Subaru Outback

offroadsubaru · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:40 pm

Hi all,

I'd like to get your perspectives on this potential purchase. My parents are debating replacing a classic gasoline-fueled Mercedes S Class with a 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD or a used 2nd generation Outback with a 5-speed manual.

Jeep pros/cons:

Advantages:

1. CRD engine
2. Mileage (22/26 unbeatable for tough little SUV)
3. Biodiesel compatibility (up to 20% bio straight from the factory)
4. New; under mfg warranty
5. Ground clearance & low range
6. Electronic stability control/traction control

Disadvantages:

1. It's a DC product (although their 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 Laredo 4x4 has been a solid vehicle with only a few problems).
2. Diesel specific issues (failing EGR valves reported by some Liberty CRD owners, transmission problems that I've been reading about etc).
3. Full time Selec-Trac system with 3 open diffs (in 4 Full Time mode) not as good as Subaru AWD with limited slip center (and rear on some models).

Subaru Outback:

Advantages:

1. Cargo room: Liberty is taller and shorter.
2. Highway fuel economy (although no biodiesel for this car)
3. Build quality in the interior
4. Manual transmission availability
5. Fun to drive quotient

Disadvantages:

1. Ground clearance for offroad driving
2. "Toughness" for offroad driving (The Liberty is more of a truck)
3. No biodiesel compatibility, gasser only.
4. Head gasket problems to 2003, nice $1500-$2000 repair bill when they start to leak or blow.

Even with all these factors in play, my parents are still having trouble deciding. I'm still at a loss. The diesel motor is the only reason they're considering buying a new vehicle -- a new 2006/7 Outback would not be in play because it doesn't have diesel compatibility. Plus, the great experience they've had with the ZJ Grand Cherokee is a positive.

I have a 1998 Outback which has been a great car, but I love Jeeps and may ultimately replace this car with a diesel Liberty or Grand Cherokee in a few years.

Thanks for any help you can provide with this decision

bbo · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 382

is towing a consideration? CRD has 5k towing capacity

also on the BIO .. DC mentions 5% as being supported, but people have used all concentrations up to and including 100% with no definitive problems traced to ATSM spec bio ... ( that I know of) ... I can only get 5% here, so thats what I use.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:43 pm

Highway mileage is EPA only 1 MPG difference and most members here have been getting better than the Estimated Highway mileage ( I have been getting well over 30 on the highway ).

DC, which is also Dailmer, has enhanced the Liberty with ESP, ROM, Traction Control and Better ABS. The open diff "advantage" you mentioned is really not there with the Traction Control ability.

With DC bringing in even more Diesel models, the value of the KJ CRD is going to be better than expected. Support for the KJ is going to be there also.

The advantage of BioDiesel might end up being a bigger advantage down the road than people know. World events are going to make some big changes in the near future.

The longevity of Diesel engines has been historically better that gas engines.

Interior Quality? I have never heard of any problems with the Interior of any KJ...didn't even think about it until your question.

Try to find a Subaru Forum that rivals L.O.S.T. :wink:

Plus, the KJ makes a great Toad...a vehicle towed behind a travel trailer (so easy with the KJ because of the transfercase ability to go into neutral so you don't have to drop any driveshafts)...and if your travel trailer gets stuck in a campsite you could probably recover it with the KJ...not so with the Subaru

Jeger · **Posted:** Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:54 pm

As far as the open diff goes it really doesnt matter with an 06. Like Darby says the braking system does an excellent job of controlling wheel spin and torque delivery. I would say if they want to tow anything or would ever consider venturing offroad go with the liberty. Roof racks and hitch racks are always an option for more cargo space. And my CRD gets better than the EPA mileage as well.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:50 am

EPA ratings on nearly all available diesels (pickups excluded) seem to be an exercise in understatement.

EPA says 22/26, real world with decent fuel try 25/30 or even better depending on your driving routine.

Long time Subaru owner here, bought an '87 GL wagon brand new and still have it. FWIW, I'd take the CRD over another Subaru any day.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:10 am

A friend had the big engine Forester and all she could hope for in mileage was 22 MPG. bought a Legancy wagon just after I got the CRD and it improved her mileage a lot.......until she tried to pull the new little "Fun Finder" travel trailer she bought. Her mileage dropped to 11 MPG and the Legacy struggles with it. I'm guessing I could pull the thing all day and get over 20.

namvet · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:05 pm

I've had my 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited for just two weeks now. I have had several diesel vehicles. I have also had several SUV's of the smaller variety. I am greatly impressed with the handling of the CRD. I appears to be a very solid and stable platform and handles more like a Japanese car than an SUV.

At the moment I have about B30 in the tank. I will probably keep it at about B20 levels. It is nice to have some fuel flexibility.

Tom_with_a_Dream · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:29 pm

Darby -

At risk of being banned for poking fun, here goes...

Quote:

a vehicle towed behind a travel trailer

If the Libby is being puller by the travel trailer, what exactly is pulling the travel trailer? :shock:

I don't even know if "regular" people (as in, not possessing a CDL with applicable certs) are authorized to pull tandems. Although, I did see a duallie pulling a 4-horse 5th-wheel which was equipped with a redneck-rigged hitch to pull a 2-horse trailer. I called #77 since I figured that couldn't be legal, and the Trooper was intrigued by the notion but couldn't say off the top of his head if it was illegal.

(Yes, I realize you were referring to a motor coach, etc.)

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:46 pm

Tom_with_a_Dream wrote:

Darby -

At risk of being banned for poking fun, here goes...

Quote:

a vehicle towed behind a travel trailer

If the Libby is being puller by the travel trailer, what exactly is pulling the travel trailer? :shock:

I don't even know if "regular" people (as in, not possessing a CDL with applicable certs) are authorized to pull tandems. Although, I did see a duallie pulling a 4-horse 5th-wheel which was equipped with a redneck-rigged hitch to pull a 2-horse trailer. I called #77 since I figured that couldn't be legal, and the Trooper was intrigued by the notion but couldn't say off the top of his head if it was illegal.

(Yes, I realize you were referring to a motor coach, etc.)

Isn't that what a front receiver hitch is for? The CRD probably has enough torque to push the motor coach. :shock:

Tom_with_a_Dream · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:34 pm

A real man's Tandem: Bass Boat on the front hitch and a 4-wheeler trailer on the rear hitch...

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:56 pm

Actually a growing number of states do allow tandem pulls. Idaho is one of them. I periodically see a vaction tow vehicle with a travel trailer and a small fishing boat behind.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:23 pm

I was talking about the Bus Type Travel MOTORHOMES (lol)...the vehicles that are pulled behind them are called TOADS. About the KJ pulling the MOTORHOME I was referring to a situation that the MOTORHOME got stuck in some mud after a rain as night...the KJ might be able to help recover the MOTORHOME from the muck...

ALL of the above posters are BANNED....rotflmao

offroadsubaru · **Posted:** Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:27 am

An update:

Parents are demoing a 2006 CRD Limited (cloth interior, khaki paint) for a day. Definitely the nicest CRD the dealer has in stock. Keeping my fingers crossed that they do the right thing and snap it up.

One lame point about the local dealer that would be working on it (not the selling dealer, which is 150 miles away from where they live in Eastern WA). I called the dealer and they stated that they've never worked on a CRD before. Which sounds pretty lame, but they are a "stand alone" Jeep dealer in an automall that also sells Chevy, Mazda, and Subaru (The Jeep svc dept shares space with the Mazda and Subaru stores).

However, the next closest dealer (40 miles away) is a Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep store, which is (a) good because they sell and service the big Cummins diesel trucks and (b) told me that they have several CRDs that come to them for service and have all the necessary training to work on a CRD: "We are required to service the whole Jeep product line". So if they buy the CRD, I am advising them to make the drive to said dealer for any repair work. I don't think their CRD should be a guinea pig for the local techs.

40 miles is kind of lame, but it could be worse. If you have a new Volvo or Lexus that needs dealer work where they live, you'll be driving to Bellevue or Spokane (150 or 180 miles).

And yeah -- towing is a big potential factor. The CRD would be used for a trip to Wisconsin and back (with a rented U-Haul) to get a bunch of stuff that my folks have had in storage there for years. The ZJ Grand Cherokee could also be used, but would get much worse fuel economy with the 4.0 liter gas towing.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:56 am

offroadsubaru wrote:

An update:

Parents are demoing a 2006 CRD Limited (cloth interior, khaki paint) for a day. Definitely the nicest CRD the dealer has in stock.

Limited CRD's have leather interior. I know mine does.

I would certainly drive the extra 40 miles for better diesel service. At least the mileage on the CRD is not going to kill you driving that distance in cost.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:57 am

My Spokane dealer is all Jeep too but they have done well so far. Any DC shop should be able to service it though and I am sure there are Dodge dearlers in the Tri Cities that service lots of diesel pickups. When I get a service announcement from Jeep/DC it almost always directs me to both my Jeep dealer and to the Dodge dealer down the street and they are definately under different ownership.

offroadsubaru · **Posted:** Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:16 am

Well, good news.

My parents bought the 2006 Khaki CRD Limited. And yes -- it does have cloth interior.

I'm definitely excited. Will have to go visit the folks so I can take it for a spin. I was on the first test drive, but went back home to Kirkland before they bought it (they picked it up while on vacation in Oregon!)

Thanks for all the support and advice! CRDs are impressive vehicles, and I wish I had a car that pulled high 20's to 30 mpg hwy with 295 lb/ft of torque. 162 pounds feet (2.5 liter motor in 1998 Outback) feels pretty lame now

Apples to oranges: 2006 Liberty CRD vs. used Subaru Outback

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