CRD Oil Is Sooty - Massey Ferguson Oil Is Not - Why... ?

swoughen · **Posted:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:12 pm

Just wondered why our tractor oil, after hundreds of hours, is not sooted up like our CRD oil, after just a few hundred miles... :roll:

europachris · **Posted:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:44 pm

swoughen wrote:

Just wondered why our tractor oil, after hundreds of hours, is not sooted up like our CRD oil, after just a few hundred miles... :roll:

I don't know the exact answer, but my TDI Jetta oil isn't NEARLY as black and nasty as the CRD oil, both after 10K miles on the Delvac-1.

Part of the reason is the CRD gets about 1/2 the mileage, so it burns twice the fuel over the same mileage. More fuel = more soot.

Also, the CRD engine is a dirty little bugger compared to my TDI, exhaust wise. It's a lot better after all the flashes and two EGR valves, but it still blows more smoke than I think a modern common rail engine should.

I can change the oil on my Jetta with bare hands and the stuff just wipes off with a shop towel. If I do that with the CRD, my hands are black for DAYS!

I dropped the oil filter into the oil drain pan last time and splashed oil all over me and the garage floor. Took hours to clean up the garage with Simple Green. My clothes never came clean.....

Still love our CRD, tho!

Chris

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:25 pm

europachris wrote:

I don't know the exact answer, but my TDI Jetta oil isn't NEARLY as black and nasty as the CRD oil, both after 10K miles on the Delvac-1.

Part of the reason is the CRD gets about 1/2 the mileage, so it burns twice the fuel over the same mileage. More fuel = more soot.

Also, the CRD engine is a dirty little bugger compared to my TDI, exhaust wise. It's a lot better after all the flashes and two EGR valves, but it still blows more smoke than I think a modern common rail engine should.

I can change the oil on my Jetta with bare hands and the stuff just wipes off with a shop towel. If I do that with the CRD, my hands are black for DAYS!

I dropped the oil filter into the oil drain pan last time and splashed oil all over me and the garage floor. Took hours to clean up the garage with Simple Green. My clothes never came clean.....

Still love our CRD, tho!

Chris

The tractor probably has no EGR.

I have seen a lot of TDI engine oil over the years of hosting GTG where everything from oil changes to TB changes with intake removal for cleaning and I have never seen a TDI that did not have black oil and stain hands and driveways or garage floors. If you have a EGR equipped TDI that is not turning oil black then the EGR has failed closed, the oil is not holding the soot in suspenssion, fuel is running extremely lean, or you are running fuel w/o suffler such as B100 fuel maybe and I seem to remember those guys having sooty oil.

The CRD is actiually cleaner then a TDI at the exhuast with the PD being about the same clean wise. The only difference is from volume and possiably a more aggressive EGR program in the CRD at low idle.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:39 pm

You have to remember that the CRD is moving an 4300# Aerodynamic Brick...and has bigger cylinder areas...and IT IS A JEEP...lol

gsbrockman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:18 pm

EGR Valve + Multiple Injector Events = Accelerated Dirty Engine Oil

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:47 am

A few suggestions that I have found effective on my CRD for cleaner oil:
1). Clean the raw motor oil out of your air intake and install a CCV filter. Burning that CAC oil makes excess soot, some of which will end up in the oil.
2). Feed you engine better quality fuels that burn cleaner with less soot. Get your cetane rating up by using additives if necessary. A little boidiesel does wonders in the CRD.
3). Make sure your air filter is clean and unconstricted.
4). Use an oil designed to handle diesel soot (CI-4+ rated) like Mobile 1 or Rotella 5W40 synthetic.
My oil has been noticably cleaner with just these minor changes. Even the 0W40 that the dealer put in last time to run a consumption test is much cleaner. At 2500 miles since changing, can actuallty still see the marks on the dipstick through the oil.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:56 am

RFCRD wrote:

A few suggestions that I have found effective on my CRD for cleaner oil:
1). Clean the raw motor oil out of your air intake and install a CCV filter. Burning that CAC oil makes excess soot, some of which will end up in the oil.
2). Feed you engine better quality fuels that burn cleaner with less soot. Get your cetane rating up by using additives if necessary. A little boidiesel does wonders in the CRD.
3). Make sure your air filter is clean and unconstricted.
4). Use an oil designed to handle diesel soot (CI-4+ rated) like Mobile 1 or Rotella 5W40 synthetic.
My oil has been noticably cleaner with just these minor changes. Even the 0W40 that the dealer put in last time to run a consumption test is much cleaner. At 2500 miles since changing, can actuallty still see the marks on the dipstick through the oil.

Now that I think about it I do seem to have a little cleaner oil and be able to see through the stuff a little better and see the fill marks I think. That said it will still ruin a shirt with what carbon is still in the oil from combustion.

europachris · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:54 am

oldnavy wrote:

I have seen a lot of TDI engine oil over the years of hosting GTG where everything from oil changes to TB changes with intake removal for cleaning and I have never seen a TDI that did not have black oil and stain hands and driveways or garage floors. If you have a EGR equipped TDI that is not turning oil black then the EGR has failed closed, the oil is not holding the soot in suspenssion, fuel is running extremely lean, or you are running fuel w/o suffler such as B100 fuel maybe and I seem to remember those guys having sooty oil.

The CRD is actiually cleaner then a TDI at the exhuast with the PD being about the same clean wise. The only difference is from volume and possiably a more aggressive EGR program in the CRD at low idle.

Don't misunderstand me, the oil out of my TDI is still darn black and nasty, just not nearly as bad as the CRD. The CRD oil is like black ink. It just keeps smearing black all over the more you try to wipe it off.

Both vehicles run Delvac-1, B11 bio mix with either PS DK or Stanadyne additive. EGR on the Jetta has been 'tweaked' via VAG-COM. CCV on the Jetta has the Mercedes "brush" mod, which is of dubious value. However, at 90K miles, the intake manifold, while getting gunked, is still pretty good shape.

Oh, I make sure both vehicles see redline on a regular basis. The Jetta gets the Italian tuneup daily and the CRD does everytime I can get the wife to let me drive it. Yippee! Amazing the crap that blows out after a few days of light-footing the throttle.

Chris

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:24 am

europachris wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

I have seen a lot of TDI engine oil over the years of hosting GTG where everything from oil changes to TB changes with intake removal for cleaning and I have never seen a TDI that did not have black oil and stain hands and driveways or garage floors. If you have a EGR equipped TDI that is not turning oil black then the EGR has failed closed, the oil is not holding the soot in suspenssion, fuel is running extremely lean, or you are running fuel w/o suffler such as B100 fuel maybe and I seem to remember those guys having sooty oil.

The CRD is actiually cleaner then a TDI at the exhuast with the PD being about the same clean wise. The only difference is from volume and possiably a more aggressive EGR program in the CRD at low idle.

Don't misunderstand me, the oil out of my TDI is still darn black and nasty, just not nearly as bad as the CRD. The CRD oil is like black ink. It just keeps smearing black all over the more you try to wipe it off.

Both vehicles run Delvac-1, B11 bio mix with either PS DK or Stanadyne additive. EGR on the Jetta has been 'tweaked' via VAG-COM. CCV on the Jetta has the Mercedes "brush" mod, which is of dubious value. However, at 90K miles, the intake manifold, while getting gunked, is still pretty good shape.

Oh, I make sure both vehicles see redline on a regular basis. The Jetta gets the Italian tuneup daily and the CRD does everytime I can get the wife to let me drive it. Yippee! Amazing the crap that blows out after a few days of light-footing the throttle.

Chris

Hey the real problem in the A4 TDI intake is the real sharp right angle bend about 2" behind where intake bolts to head and you can look into the intake where the EGR and Antishutter valve is (where rubber hose clamps to metal intake) and can not see the turn unless the intake is off. I have seen many of the TDI intakes removed and they will be only moderate (1/4") build up there at the EGR and when pulled off the hole for air to pass through to head was about the size of a dime and the person had thought they were in good shape before removing. Then when the cleaned intake is installed they are amazed at the difference in way the car runs. :shock:

Too bad we don't have a service program like VAG-COM, it sure is amazing what I could do with program.

One thing you mention is correct for sure and that is the "Italian Tune-Up", I do it every fill up or every chance I get to drive the CRD. :wink:

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:07 pm

oldnavy wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

A few suggestions that I have found effective on my CRD for cleaner oil:
1). Clean the raw motor oil out of your air intake and install a CCV filter. Burning that CAC oil makes excess soot, some of which will end up in the oil.
2). Feed you engine better quality fuels that burn cleaner with less soot. Get your cetane rating up by using additives if necessary. A little boidiesel does wonders in the CRD.
3). Make sure your air filter is clean and unconstricted.
4). Use an oil designed to handle diesel soot (CI-4+ rated) like Mobile 1 or Rotella 5W40 synthetic.
My oil has been noticably cleaner with just these minor changes. Even the 0W40 that the dealer put in last time to run a consumption test is much cleaner. At 2500 miles since changing, can actuallty still see the marks on the dipstick through the oil.

Now that I think about it I do seem to have a little cleaner oil and be able to see through the stuff a little better and see the fill marks I think. That said it will still ruin a shirt with what carbon is still in the oil from combustion.

Well I ran mine @ 700 miles yesterday with the return trip on D2 (unfortunately). Haven't had a chance to check the oil yet. Was blowing black smoke on hard acceleration and could really tell the difference. Went straight to the B20 pump after work this morning for a 12 gal top-off. Running much better now but I bet I ran enough rot-gut through it to blacken the oil considerably.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:20 pm

RFCRD wrote:

oldnavy wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

A few suggestions that I have found effective on my CRD for cleaner oil:
1). Clean the raw motor oil out of your air intake and install a CCV filter. Burning that CAC oil makes excess soot, some of which will end up in the oil.
2). Feed you engine better quality fuels that burn cleaner with less soot. Get your cetane rating up by using additives if necessary. A little boidiesel does wonders in the CRD.
3). Make sure your air filter is clean and unconstricted.
4). Use an oil designed to handle diesel soot (CI-4+ rated) like Mobile 1 or Rotella 5W40 synthetic.
My oil has been noticably cleaner with just these minor changes. Even the 0W40 that the dealer put in last time to run a consumption test is much cleaner. At 2500 miles since changing, can actuallty still see the marks on the dipstick through the oil.

Now that I think about it I do seem to have a little cleaner oil and be able to see through the stuff a little better and see the fill marks I think. That said it will still ruin a shirt with what carbon is still in the oil from combustion.

Well I ran mine @ 700 miles yesterday with the return trip on D2 (unfortunately). Haven't had a chance to check the oil yet. Was blowing black smoke on hard acceleration and could really tell the difference. Went straight to the B20 pump after work this morning for a 12 gal top-off. Running much better now but I bet I ran enough rot-gut through it to blacken the oil considerably.

I think we often forget (or just don't know) how much some seemingly simple things have such a big effect on our diesels.

swoughen · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:35 pm

Good explanations and discussions...

We just changed out the oil and filter last weekend - CRD had been on the dealer lot a few months, wanted to get the old oil out...

Installed the Fumoto Valve (a wonderful thing!) and put in Rotella T 5W40 - haven't found any bio-diesel around here - still looking for it...

Sure would like to find a less expensive source for those "Made in Italy" oil filters, tho... :shock:

Maybe buy some in bulk for the future...

Desert_Busa · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:16 pm

swoughen wrote:

Sure would like to find a less expensive source for those "Made in Italy" oil filters, tho... :shock:

Maybe buy some in bulk for the future...

I called the closest dealer. Out of stock, but they checked another and they had six. At 12 bucks a pop, I got three. Good for 24k miles. Maybe I should have bought all six, but hopefully an equivalent one will be found by then.

europachris · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:17 pm

swoughen wrote:

Good explanations and discussions...

We just changed out the oil and filter last weekend - CRD had been on the dealer lot a few months, wanted to get the old oil out...

Installed the Fumoto Valve (a wonderful thing!) and put in Rotella T 5W40 - haven't found any bio-diesel around here - still looking for it...

Sure would like to find a less expensive source for those "Made in Italy" oil filters, tho... :shock:

Maybe buy some in bulk for the future...

NAPA stocks the oil filters. Don't quote me, but I think it's a 1516 in the Gold series (or maybe that's the one for my Cub Cadet??) Anyway, I use those and they are very high quality filters. They still are not cheap. I think I paid either $8 or $10 for it.

But, a good filter is VERY cheap insurance, especially when you can go 10K miles easily on an oil change.

Chris

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:37 pm

europachris wrote:

swoughen wrote:

Good explanations and discussions...

We just changed out the oil and filter last weekend - CRD had been on the dealer lot a few months, wanted to get the old oil out...

Installed the Fumoto Valve (a wonderful thing!) and put in Rotella T 5W40 - haven't found any bio-diesel around here - still looking for it...

Sure would like to find a less expensive source for those "Made in Italy" oil filters, tho... :shock:

Maybe buy some in bulk for the future...

NAPA stocks the oil filters. Don't quote me, but I think it's a 1516 in the Gold series (or maybe that's the one for my Cub Cadet??) Anyway, I use those and they are very high quality filters. They still are not cheap. I think I paid either $8 or $10 for it.

But, a good filter is VERY cheap insurance, especially when you can go 10K miles easily on an oil change.

Chris

I paid $9 for them at local dealer and I believe MoparSuperCenter they sell them for about $9 plus shipping.

CRD Oil Is Sooty - Massey Ferguson Oil Is Not - Why... ?

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