That is the question.....

I'm stuck, I'm contemplating two options.

1. Two inch lift with perhaps MTR's on stock rims.

2. No lift, the best tires money can buy, a winch and rear locker perhaps.

I'm starting to sway to option number 2. I would say 90 % of my driving is onroad, and I know that a lift would increase that pathetic clearance of the front skid. However, I've noticed there are lots of people that have problems with the various lifts. If you go too high the driveshafts go. Other's complain of squaks. I've also noticed that no one has metioned loosening all the control arms and the rear bars prior to lifting. And then retighting everything according to factory specs once the vehicule is on the ground.

How capable would option number 2 be as oposed to option number 1?

Go with the lift and the MT/R's. I fit the MT/R's bone stock on my 05. I had major rubbing after trimming. Once I got the lift I still rub but not near as bad and only at full lock. I was amazed at the difference 2.5 inch lift made. I was even more amazed at the on road ride of my KJ after I lifted. I would spring for the lift and tires and save for the locker down the road. I can get most places I want to go with the lift. I couldn't do that with just a locker and 31' MT/R's. Just my thoughts.



Parakeet

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Oh MAN I got NATURE on my Jeep.
05 KJ Renny that took the bad economy bullet

89 XJ that thinks tax time is Christmas

I will have another KJ I promise.

Parakeet said it pretty good. I have an 05 and had the MTRs on before the lift. Mine did not rub nearly as much as his, it only hit pinch weld in the back and the front bumper slightly when turning. I look at it this way. To really get the benefits of option two you need option one. You really won't get into places where you will need that winch and locker without some decent ground clearance except maybe some mud. I would get the lift, meats, and locker first, then save for the winch. But for the winch you need a mounting system i.e. after market bumper or front tow hitch. As for the issues with the lift. The OTT spacers lifts seem to be the only real ones doing damage. I have never heard of anyones driveshafts going from a lift. and you can't really go to high with the KJ cause the biggest lift out there is 2.5" minus the new Rock Crawler kits( but no has tried them yet) SO 2.5-3" is the safest to go as far as your front cv's are concerned.

My .02

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LIBERTY or DEATH

2005 Sport with "STUFF"

Do you have all the skids? If not, that should be your first option. If you have skids, then get the lift and tires.

MTRs kick tushy on the trails and you need more clearance. A winch is not something you would need very often and lockers are not always needed. We had a lot of people at Moab without lockers or LSD's and they did fine. Few people had winches also. We all had lifts and most had MTR's.

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New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

#2

but get full skids, including rock rails.

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2004 Silver Liberty Sport 4x4 (gone)
1996 Land Rover Disco I
L.O.S.T #000522 Life Time #JH053535

Some of the places I go, I would never make it without a locker.

If you do not want to risk getting a big lift and destroying things, get a smaller lift. Daystar makes a 1.5infront, 2"rear lift that makes a world of difference off-roading. If you do not want rubbing, then I wouldnt get the 245/75's with that lift.

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It looks like you want opinions so here is mine on your question
I would go with option #2 provided you first have full skids ,all 4 not just the 3 that came on ours
here is why I would go with #2
with a lift and 31 or even a lift and 33 or bigger you will still be limited by traction and suspenion will have a huge affect on traction so if one wheel goes up it has no traction a lift will not prevent a wheel lift and even with a lift you have to put in bumpstop spacers wich limit up travel wich takes away from the travel of the extra lift gained so you realy only gain the ability to run bigger tires wich will cost more than smaller tires and will burn more gas than smaller tires and will take away from you low gear range

Now if you go with the stock suspension but swap out to 15" rims and put probably the best tire made ,rember this is my opinion, a super swamper radial 215/85 15 should fit with little or no rub at stock hight and they cost about $60 less that a bfg mt that would fit the stock rim why not go that route
then detroit in the rear wich is only about $130 more than the power trax but way worth the extra $$ you could go where ever you want until you bottom out on the center wich will get even thi best built rock buggie stuck that knid of stuff comes down to the driver

I can tell you that with my TJ and a 2.5" skyjacker lift with 30" tires and a ARB locker up front I can follow guy with 33's and open diffs and not even spin a wheel and when they lift a wheel so do I but i have a locker so my wheel that is on the ground keeps me moving but they sit still and I make it
I will say that I have a few more mods than just the lift and the locker but you get the point
I find my self proving time and time again that a lift and big tires does not make your jeep "off road ready" but rather your skill as a driver will make all the differance

Driving off road is 70% driver
sorry for the long winded post

I would like to see the data on "the best tire money can buy." What is the best tire and where is that data that proves it.

Sounds like a bunch of marketing ploys and heresay for specific tires. What type of tire will be your need? Super Swampers are not the best for on-road. As mentioned by the author of this post, most of his time will be on-road. No purpose in getting super expensive off-road tires when you don't use them for their intended purpose. You will grow tired of the noise and waste in gas and money when they wear down really fast. Probably not the best wet road/snow tire either. Live in the south or the north?

Author never mentions what model vehicle he owns or the year. Would help knowing if it is prelowered or if it is a Reny model.

As for lifts: You will have problems with your stock suspension just as much as aftermarket lifts once you do some off-roading with them. When people lift and get squeaks and such, it could be due to a change in angles and just some lube will correct that. Exposed metal rusts and when you change the angle, you put some rust into the movement of parts so you will get some noise. Lube it and smile as you enjoy the lift.

Not all lifts cause problems. Here's my take on lifts and lockers.

Lockers cause problems also. Service departments, aftermarket shops, and individuals do make errors when installing them. People do get bad ones in the mail or off the shelf. Lockers do not stop you from slamming rocks all over your skids, which do cause dents and severe damage to skids and need replacing ($$$). A lower KJ will hit rocks more often. Say goodbye to the muffler ($$$). Jeep balls next to your rear diff will definitely get bent up and damaged ($$$). 1-2" more clearance (bigger tires thanks to lift) for those shock and rear control arm mounts means less damage to them. Ask the lifted people how bad their mounts are beat up. Now imagine those mounts without the 1-2" additional clearance.

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New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

well as you took the time to run down my opinion you also answered the question you asked to run me down
you asked me to support my opinion as to the best tire and you also state the price as high and the ware as short
here is my opinionated answer
1 of about 3 sizes that will fit a stock KJ cost $90 so that is cheep for a 6ply tire (36X13.5-15 irok is 6ply) and 6ply is what the rock buggies run ,some run8
as to the ware issue my bro. got 35k+ out of a set of 33" bias and these are radial so they will last longer
and as to where I live may be why I have this opinion south Louisiana ,no rocks but mega roots and dirt ,mud if you like
noisie yes they are very willl they do well on a trail no doubt
if you dont lift and dont lock you need every "inch" you can get my opinion is that with this tire you cant go wrong and I dont even run them
I run the cheepest MT money can buy I run 30's with a moded TJ and have few problems going where I want because I live by the rule that
"It's 70% driver"
I have run hot springs and gilmer and plan to run telico in October with my cheep tires and on the set I have now I have sufferd only 1 busted side wall
on the same trail in the same spot on the same rock a guy running 33" BFG 8ply tires on a lifted rubi ($200+ a tire) cut the same side wall on the same passenger front tire we both went to town ,gilmer TX, hit the only tire shop open on saturday and I got a $70 maching tire he spent over $150 and the tire he got did not mach lucky me but if I had "good tires" I would have a miss mach now

Oh yeah this is all about my opinion
see sig

Sorry I forgot to say what truck I have. It's a 2006 Renegade with tow hooks front and rear. I just ordered all 4 skids so those will be on by the weekend. (Mopar). It also came with the Mopar ROck Rails

I'm still tempted to take the stock vehicule to the max with a good set of tires. I'm also a beginner into offroading. So yes I understand damage will occur, I've already hit the lower control arms a few times, but I also won't do stupid things in it when off roading. I know it's always a compromise. I wanted a vehicule that was capable off road but also behave nicely on the street. I don't think any TJ owner can say that.

I do see the advantages a lift will provide for the underside but I think if I learn the proper technique I will be able to take the vehicule to the max.

Thank you for all your imput.

wait

I own a TJ and other than the mega low gears I have it handles fine at 75mph or more if you dont mind the noise of a I6 cranking out 3200 rpm
or the noise of the worn soft top flaping




but you are correct if I wanted something that rode nice and quiet that I could get in and ride for 5 or 6 hours and not feel like I got beat on by Mike Tyson
then I would not have a TJ
I say if you want to go off-road then you will have to give up some on-road and the more off-road you want the more on-road you have to give up
you have to weigh what you want to give and take
If you are local to me or if I ever post up that I will be riding near you ,you are more than welcome to come ride shotgun and see how bad a TJ gets beat on when you drive it "right"

I also own a Comanche with both solid axels. So I too know how a solid axel vehicule behaves on the road. It's not bad but.....
I guess the longer wheelbase of the Comanche helps a little but the fact that it's lowered it doesn't.

Hmm, BIGD, the stock skids are good, but not to good. The front skid will be fine, but if you beat on the tranny, tcase, and gas tank alot, they will bend. Those stock rocker rails will not do much either. They will be good for mild hits, but they will not hold the weight of the jeep by all means. You seem to be on the right track, but why not get a cheap daystar lift 2" lift? It will do nothing but help off-roading and shouldnt cause any suspension problems.

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LOST KJ'S
Where are you going???
Current Jeep: 2004 Jeep Liberty
-Atlantic Blue
-Air Ride Rear Suspension ; OME/Rustys Lift ; Powertrax Locker ; Moog Lower Ball-Joints ; 245/70/16 Yokohama Geolander A/T-S's on MOABS ; Flowmaster 50 SUV
Lost #007082
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I know that the mopar skids are not the greatest but I don't intend to go too crazy. I was looking at the tranny one today and it looks pretty solid with reinforcements. I think it will do fine for me now. I also noticed that everone is afraid to bend them. I think the whole idea of them is protection by no only keeping stuff from the components but also from impact. I believe that they are designed to absorb energy from a kit. Sure if it's bent....and on goes the hilift and out comes the hammer to straighten it out..that is off course if nothing is damaged.

I agree with you on the rock rails...they just look nice.

I thought about the daystar or the RR 2.125. combo with longer bump stops offcourse.

AH! Many a young grasshopper have said those words when they first started out...only to change their chirp to a new tune. *Slowly raising hand*

There is a bug that goes around here and it is extremely catchy. Be careful. I hope you have read up on the many posts about skids on here. I coulda sold you my Mopar Stock Reny Rails (tiny dent, not bent) for a great price.

So the Reny's no longer come with 3 skids? Why does Jeep have a Reny model then? Geesh! Not worth paying all that money just for the fender flares and bumper fashia. They took away the lights, the roof basket, the skids, rock rails (my sticker doesn't even mention the rails so not sure if they are part of the package). Does it still come with the Trac Lock?

Jason, nothing directed at you. Big D said he wanted the best money could buy and I was referring to that. I'll take five sets of NEW MTR's and NEW Rubicon wheels for $800 over any so called "best money can buy tire" anyday. Of course, a lift is needed for them.

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New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

A 2" lift or less would be great...won't bother your UBJs most likely. If you add the weight of skids/winch/ARB to a stock Renny...you will lose even more ground clearance.

I say a 2" lift with the skids (especially tranny) and rockrails would be first. After you lift, then you can test fit some tires and check for any rubbing/road noise/ride/ect. Later add the Detroit TT LSD to the rear if you want added traction but good road manners. If you want to add a winch put a front receiver hitch on and you can carry your winch only when you need it.

Just an opinion...

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2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

Yup. In Canada the roof lights are a delete option. It can only be installed at the dealer. As for the skids, they are also an option.

As for the winch, everyone I see is recomending a 9500 lb winch. But if I were to get the hitch for the front, isn't that rated at 5000 lbs.

MTR's...hmm...how about a compromise?

Daystar 1.5 lift, stock size MTRs?

1.5" lift will clear some 245/75 MTRs

_________________
LIBERTY or DEATH

2005 Sport with "STUFF"

The best tire really does relate to where you are and what you well in. I am sure that in southern Louisianna you would quickly learn that the MT/R is not a mud terrain tire ( although it may be the finest all-around 4x4 tire available)

IMHO, the suspension problems these jeeps have would make me think long and hard about lifting one that was under the intitial warranty, magnusson-moss or not. The front diff will likely not handle 33's ( might depend on the tire: some are much heavier than others). and mot 31's ( and 245/75's) depending on brand, will only net you .5 to .75m inches ( some maybe 1 full inch) of additional clearance.

Again, the necessity of a winch depends on where/when you wheel. Heavy mud and wooded trails make winches more necessary than rocks and wide open spaces. A buddy pulling you out is no help if they cannot get to you.

Good tires in a stock size and a locker is a good compromise if you do not have the bucks for the complete works...I sure would like to find a good set of rubi rims/tires for my KJ ( cheap) though........lol

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