lockers in back and in front?

DJBassman · **Posted:** Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:41 pm

I know one should put lockers on a kj in the rear. But what about the front? I have been reading up on this and some information suggest that a locker in the front on a kj is not needed, some information even goes and states not to do it. So I am a bit confused about the front locker.

unixxx · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:20 am

Essentially, installing a locker in the front increases your chance of cracking the front diff housing and makes steering more difficult. Check out this page for more info:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Jeep_Liber ... Air_Locker

jpzkj · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:42 am

True locker...locker...maybe a little problem with drivablity but MANY have used the Powertrax/TruTrac combo with success.

Powertrax in the rear of my wife's daily driver....not a problem at all.

Kind of quirky now and then but great offroad. If your going to install one in the front the TruTrac has worked well for many of my club memebers.

ARB's are nice if the price isn't the only factor. Having the ability to use the locker only when you need it is very cool.

Good luck

I just read that link... "Because of the aluminum housing, it is not recommended to put an ARB Locker in the Dana 30a. The force resulting from the ARB will crack the housing. Putting a locker in the front differential also makes steering stiffer and more difficult.'

Not exactly true...there are plenty of people with ARB fronts w/ no problems with cracking the D30A. You can't beat on the D30A...but if you take it easy you'll be fine. I think it would be more accurate to say the the risk increases but it's not a situation that absolutely WILL happen or WON'T happen.

unixxx · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:52 am

Revised

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:19 am

DJBassman wrote:

I know one should put lockers on a kj in the rear. But what about the front? I have been reading up on this and some information suggest that a locker in the front on a kj is not needed, some information even goes and states not to do it. So I am a bit confused about the front locker.

What model year is your Liberty? The personal information at the bottom of your post has you in an '06 which will have ESP. There are technical issues with using lockers/LSD's when you have ESP/traction control.

XJJeepGirl · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:51 am

I want to run a powertrax truetrack setup but I also have ESP. What problems will I have?

btolle · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:06 am

Before you spend the money for a locker consider whether you really need it or not.

I have engaged the lockers on the Rubicon twice. The first time was just to see how it drove with the lockers on and the second was a couple of weeks ago when I forded the Animas River above Silverton. It really wasn't necessary there since the bottom was rock, but what the heck, I paid for lockers why not use them once or twice a year.

Be sure you need a locker for the trails you run, not just for your ego.

DJBassman · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:52 am

RFCRD wrote:

DJBassman wrote:

I know one should put lockers....

What model year is your Liberty? The personal information at the bottom of your post has you in an '06 which will have ESP. There are technical issues with using lockers/LSD's when you have ESP/traction control.

I have an 06 sport, automatic. I have the ESP. I read a post on here (I think it was monque asking the esp/locker question) but I don't remember a dinfinitave answer from that thread. I will go back and re-read it.

BJ'naKJ · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:53 am

RFCRD wrote:

DJBassman wrote:

I know one should put lockers on a kj in the rear. But what about the front? I have been reading up on this and some information suggest that a locker in the front on a kj is not needed, some information even goes and states not to do it. So I am a bit confused about the front locker.

What model year is your Liberty? The personal information at the bottom of your post has you in an '06 which will have ESP. There are technical issues with using lockers/LSD's when you have ESP/traction control.

Care to elaborate? I've seen questions posted as to how after market traction devices will affect ESP, but no real world experiences.
It seems to me that the current "best guess" is that ESP can be complemented to improve off-road traction with aftermarket devices.

DJBassman · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:03 pm

btolle wrote:

Be sure you need a locker for the trails you run, not just for your ego.

Yes, that is the other question I have to deal with. I though at first that I don't need a locker becuase of the esp. Then I got stuck in the mud (see the stuck in the mud thread here in the general) and right after that I started to wonder if I had lockers could I pull myself out.

But now with responses and me thinking about what had happen, I don't think lockers would have done anything. Why I brought this up was for snow. On the stuck in the mud thread someone stated that the AT tire was caked up slick, like it would with snow. I was under the impression that the AT tires would be ok in the snow, I know not mud. So we get a lot of snow here in colorado springs, and that is why I started thinking about lockers again. If I don't need them, then I won't get them, I don't want something just for ego.

I am a nature photographer and I have all my equipmrnt so that it can do more than one thing. when your hiking, and have 50 lbs of photo stuff on your back, you don't want single use stuff in there.

DaveKJ02 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:00 pm

unixxx wrote:

Essentially, installing a locker in the front increases your chance of cracking the front diff housing and makes steering more difficult. Check out this page for more info:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Jeep_Liber ... Air_Locker

Now thats funny. You reference an article you wrote? According to Seth, you are wrong. Now who am I to believe? I wanted a matching front ARB when my wallet recovered. :roll:

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:06 pm

I wouldnt get a locker DJBassman. You said while you were in the mud, all 4 wheels were spinning. The only thing a locker would do is keep them from spinning alittle at first before traction control kits in. I just wouldnt screw around with that esp. I know someone put a locker in a libby with esp, but it could still screw some stuff up. Its hard to just sit down and think what effect a locker would have on esp.

XJJeepGirl · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:12 pm

I've been stuck 4 times now. Twice high centered in the snow and twice in the mud. In these situations all 4 tires were not turning at the same time. ESP was working and all that. I think the computer gets confused when it senses all 4 wheels slipping at the same time or something. ESP works great on hard dry ground but not in the snow or mud.

spoonplugger1 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:30 pm

AT tires do pretty well in the snow. My last General ATs were awsome. Lockers aren't so good in snow or ice as you spin out more easily.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:32 pm

KJJeepGirl wrote:

I've been stuck 4 times now. Twice high centered in the snow and twice in the mud. In these situations all 4 tires were not turning at the same time. ESP was working and all that. I think the computer gets confused when it senses all 4 wheels slipping at the same time or something. ESP works great on hard dry ground but not in the snow or mud.

If you were high centered, a locker wouldnt help at all. Ive been highcentered with my locker, didnt do a thing. I even at all 4 wheels spinning even though the front end is open. A locker will only help in certain situations. Most of the time in mud, all 4 wheels are spinning b/c nothing has traction, even if you are open. Where a locker really comes in is with flexing. Ive seen a stock libby with traction control go everywhere my jeep with a locker did lifting wheels and everything. Ive also seen the almighty YJ not go anywhere where my libby went through without thinking twice, all thanks to my locker. :wink:

btolle · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:09 pm

I am not familiar with the ESP issue however the old trick with a limited slip differential is to apply just a little hand brake pressure to get both rear wheels to pull.

Perhaps someone with ESP could try a little brake pedal to see if it would cause all 4 wheels to kick in at once.

As for the locker in the snow my understanding is that an automatic locker on snow or ice causes some real issues. Again, no first hand experience on my part.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:45 pm

btolle wrote:

I am not familiar with the ESP issue however the old trick with a limited slip differential is to apply just a little hand brake pressure to get both rear wheels to pull.

Perhaps someone with ESP could try a little brake pedal to see if it would cause all 4 wheels to kick in at once.

As for the locker in the snow my understanding is that an automatic locker on snow or ice causes some real issues. Again, no first hand experience on my part.

A locker on snow does the same thing an LS will do. :wink:

I seen this first hand...

unixxx · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:22 pm

DaveKJ02 wrote:

unixxx wrote:

Essentially, installing a locker in the front increases your chance of cracking the front diff housing and makes steering more difficult. Check out this page for more info:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Jeep_Liber ... Air_Locker

Now thats funny. You reference an article you wrote? According to Seth, you are wrong. Now who am I to believe? I wanted a matching front ARB when my wallet recovered. :roll:

I reference a Wiki article that anyone can edit; I didn't write the entire article. All of the information on there has been collected from reading countless articles on this forum. Most people say that it will eventually ruin the front diff housing so that's what I wrote. I'm personally going to put an ARB in my front diff because if its cracks I'll just put a better front diff in. Feel free to change anything on the Wiki if it's wrong. That's the point :wink:

EDIT: More info if you're interested: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=10142

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:52 am

BJ'naKJ wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

DJBassman wrote:

I know one should put lockers on a kj in the rear. But what about the front? I have been reading up on this and some information suggest that a locker in the front on a kj is not needed, some information even goes and states not to do it. So I am a bit confused about the front locker.

What model year is your Liberty? The personal information at the bottom of your post has you in an '06 which will have ESP. There are technical issues with using lockers/LSD's when you have ESP/traction control.

Care to elaborate? I've seen questions posted as to how after market traction devices will affect ESP, but no real world experiences.
It seems to me that the current "best guess" is that ESP can be complemented to improve off-road traction with aftermarket devices.

From what I have read, it supposidly confuses the computer for both the ESP and traction control functions. You would be best to call or write Jeep engineering before you invest in lockers. Try doing some digging, there were several threads about a year ago concerning the problem. This first showed up as an issue when the '06's came out because the track-lock option was discontinued (could not even special order it) after ESP was added.

Jeger · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:30 am

There is some discussion here http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hlight=esp about this topic.

Personally I think the only thing that would mess with esp would be a spool or welded spider gears. Anything that will not allow one tire to turn faster than the other. As far as I know the lockers that are available for the kj will still allow a tire to turn faster when it needs to such as in a sharp turn. Say for instance for one reason or another ESP applies braking to the left rear to straighten you out, the locker will still allow the right rear to go faster if it needs to, if you are hard on the gas the system will even cut back throttle which would allow the locker to disengage. Unless of course you have the ESP in partially off mode.

I am waiting for someone to try the true-track front and rear on an 06. I think it would be nearly as good as a locker in most situations and still have perfect road manners.

lockers in back and in front?

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