CRD Engine Break-In Period ??

Katmandu · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:52 am

How many miles need to be put on a CRD until they are considered "Broken-In" ??

Basically, at what point are you'all seeing DECREASED Fuel Consumption due to a "Broken-In" engine ?? :?:

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:52 am

I think you have some ideas of "Break In" backwards. As the engine "breaks in" the mileage/power/ect. will get better. With this and other diesels "break in" could take up to 10,000 to 15,000 miles. From there on the mileage whould be good...until it is broke!

"Break In" is GOOD

"Broke" is BAD

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:16 am

Diesels break in usually is twice or longer the time frame of gasoline engines due to better quality components. Large truck diesels do not usually settle down until they reach the 100K mark.

I would suspect that the VM diesel in the CRD will probably not be considered "broke in" till at least 25K, without knowing the specifics of the metals used and tolerances.

The mpg's should be better and more consistent after the break in period. Just like anything else, Murphy's law may kick in and create a situation for some in that they never increase mpg or it even gets worse. :wink:

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:00 am

I think we should all get together...hunt down Murphy...and kick his arse :twisted:

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:08 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

I think we should all get together...hunt down Murphy...and kick his arse :twisted:

It sounds good to me. He wins too much when I fight him fair.

murf · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:14 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

I think we should all get together...hunt down Murphy...and kick his arse :twisted:

Bring it!

Sissies!

Endurance · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:09 pm

I got 11k on mine now and mileage hasnt change at all since day 1. I get 20.5 mpg every freakin time. Even if I stay below 2000 rpm during the entire tank, I get the same mileage as when driving normally.

Katmandu · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:31 pm

I guess my real question is at approximately what mileage do folks start seeing an improvement in Fuel Efficiency (due to break-in) ??

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:00 pm

Katmandu wrote:

I guess my real question is at approximately what mileage do folks start seeing an improvement in Fuel Efficiency (due to break-in) ??

Don't know since I haven't gotten enough miles to reach that point. Many things go into the mpg equation. Synthetics will help in the entire drivetrain. A couple of pounds extra of air in the tires and not running offroad types. I think most of the mpg is on the part of the driver.

I have gotten high 20's most of the time when predominately on the highway. Low 20's for everything else. It has been that way since I got it new. I doubt will get much better, especially since I live in the country and travel quite a few gravel roads. Waiting for a long trip to really check it out. I have run synthetics in the entire drivetrain since around 1500 miles. Not sure if that has made a great difference in MPG.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:20 pm

Katmandu wrote:

I guess my real question is at approximately what mileage do folks start seeing an improvement in Fuel Efficiency (due to break-in) ??

This will be a difficult one to pin down on the CRD. There are so many variables that effect the results (climate, fuel, etc...) So many have also expereinced mechanical issues and/or made modifications that will effect the results. Based on what I've seen on big diesels, expect a couple of years of regular use before you have enough data to notice what, if any, improvement has occurred. My hunch is that a high percentage of original CRD owners will have become frustrated and given up before anybody sees a change.

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:53 pm

RFCRD wrote:

Katmandu wrote:

I guess my real question is at approximately what mileage do folks start seeing an improvement in Fuel Efficiency (due to break-in) ??

This will be a difficult one to pin down on the CRD. There are so many variables that effect the results (climate, fuel, etc...) So many have also expereinced mechanical issues and/or made modifications that will effect the results. Based on what I've seen on big diesels, expect a couple of years of regular use before you have enough data to notice what, if any, improvement has occurred. My hunch is that a high percentage of original CRD owners will have become frustrated and given up before anybody sees a change.

How right you are! Everyone today wants instant gratification. Diesels aren't into that. Diesels are a long term investment and have their own way of wanting to do things compared to gas engines. It is the responsibility of the owner to "learn" the engine and the way it wants to work. I can tell no difference whether it's the CRD or a commercial Semi. Fuel mpg with a diesel requires the same commitment.

If you run it like a gas motor, don't expect too much from it. Throw away any ideas you might have on how a motor runs. Those that have a lot of diesel experience have got the edge, but a novice can quickly learn from those who know.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:12 pm

Cowpie1 wrote:

If you run it like a gas motor, don't expect too much from it. Throw away any ideas you might have on how a motor runs. Those that have a lot of diesel experience have got the edge, but a novice can quickly learn from those who know.

Motors are electric, we have engines. Engines are internal combustion powered!!!

And we fuel up, not gas up!!!

Amateur's!!! :roll:

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:07 pm

Guys,

I've got a fair amount of diesel experience and get good mileage out of them. I have almost 10k on the CRD clock. My mileage has improved from when it was new, but I am getting low 20's around town and mid 20's on the highway. A far cry from the 30 some are getting. Some are getting in the high 20's on the highway with almost new rigs. I think the mileage question is broader than driver habits or break in or odometer errors (mine is 2% low). I think these engines are very sensitive about their fuel and timing etc. With the old mechanical fuel injection, small adjustments in fuel timing could have a big impact. Our CRD engines have no baseline pump timing to set do they? The timing is purely electronic unless I am way off base. I assume there is a sensor picking up either cam or crank position for the computer, and it does the rest. Short of a software adjustment that I can't access, I don't know of anything else to do. Maybe the crank or cam position sensor is somewhat adjustable? Anybody know?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:01 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

Guys,

I've got a fair amount of diesel experience and get good mileage out of them. I have almost 10k on the CRD clock. My mileage has improved from when it was new, but I am getting low 20's around town and mid 20's on the highway. A far cry from the 30 some are getting. Some are getting in the high 20's on the highway with almost new rigs. I think the mileage question is broader than driver habits or break in or odometer errors (mine is 2% low). I think these engines are very sensitive about their fuel and timing etc. With the old mechanical fuel injection, small adjustments in fuel timing could have a big impact. Our CRD engines have no baseline pump timing to set do they? The timing is purely electronic unless I am way off base. I assume there is a sensor picking up either cam or crank position for the computer, and it does the rest. Short of a software adjustment that I can't access, I don't know of anything else to do. Maybe the crank or cam position sensor is somewhat adjustable? Anybody know?

Goglio mid 20's is a wide defination... 23 to 27 mpg's? And 26 mpg is what the vehicle is rated. Not sure about what your diesel experience is, auto diesels or truck diesels. So kind of what I am saying is, are you sure you are driving it properly for ecomony? If so go to next paragraph.

All that said I doubt that the sensor is adjustable, and you might be correct about what is the problem, however I think it could be a the fuel rail pressure regulator that is the problem. The reason I say that is the the electronic programming should not be able to get that far out of calibration spec I would think. The pressure regulator however could be bad and I would think that low rail preassure would cause a drop in mpg's. I don't think the pressure would have to drop low enough to even cause a CEL to have a bretty big effect on on the fuel mileage.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:01 am

By mid 20's I mean 24 or 25 on the highway if I drive for mileage. My diesel experience is with pickups and passenger cars, no heavy diesel experience. In the Dodge 3/4 ton I drive for work I am always over 20 mpg. Not bad for a truck that is nearly 8000 pounds with my normal load and twice the displacement of the CRD, but it is not 4WD. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my Libby is doing bad on mpg, but my own experience and people posting 28 to 30+ mpg both tell me it should be 5 to 10 percent better. I don't claim to know what the problem is (or even that there is a problem for sure). If I did, it would get fixed. I merely mentioned the timing pickups as a "for example" kind of thing. Fuel rail pressure would be another prime suspect, as would delayed locking of the torque converter. I'm just saying I don't know if the board's standard answer to mpg questions should be "patience Grasshopper" or "learn to drive." Who knows, in another 5k miles I might be the next preacher of patience. I hope so. By the way, does your scanguage show you rail pressure? If I can't access it electronically some way I'm screwed. Don't want to shop for a 30,000 psi fuel pressure gauge. :wink:

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:34 am

Goglio704 wrote:

By mid 20's I mean 24 or 25 on the highway if I drive for mileage.

Your numbers aren't bad. Fuel mileage consistancy has been an issue for me too. I can usually see the same mileage (24-25) on my highway commutes running a steady/cruise control 65-70. Interesting, my best tank was 28 mpg on a longer trip where I was chasing a couple of semi's doing @ 80 something for several hours. Definately not driving it for fuel economy that day.

irunmiles · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:28 am

I have a daily 75 mile round trip of mostly highway and consistently get 24-25 mpg using 42 centane. I've got 25k on the rig, and I try to keep it below 2000 rpm for fuel efficiency. Last we I fueled up at a truck stop in VA (Mr. Fuel, $2.77/gal) and got the best mileage ever (28 mpg).

Jeger · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:42 am

RFCRD wrote:

[Your numbers aren't bad. Fuel mileage consistancy has been an issue for me too. I can usually see the same mileage (24-25) on my highway commutes running a steady/cruise control 65-70. Interesting, my best tank was 28 mpg on a longer trip where I was chasing a couple of semi's doing @ 80 something for several hours. Definately not driving it for fuel economy that day.

I always get better mileage with other traffic, the Liberty has the aerodynamics of a bus, so it helps when you can do a little drafting :lol:

I would love to see what this engine could do in a more aerodynamic package.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:54 am

Goglio704 wrote:

By mid 20's I mean 24 or 25 on the highway if I drive for mileage. My diesel experience is with pickups and passenger cars, no heavy diesel experience. In the Dodge 3/4 ton I drive for work I am always over 20 mpg. Not bad for a truck that is nearly 8000 pounds with my normal load and twice the displacement of the CRD, but it is not 4WD. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying my Libby is doing bad on mpg, but my own experience and people posting 28 to 30+ mpg both tell me it should be 5 to 10 percent better. I don't claim to know what the problem is (or even that there is a problem for sure). If I did, it would get fixed. I merely mentioned the timing pickups as a "for example" kind of thing. Fuel rail pressure would be another prime suspect, as would delayed locking of the torque converter. I'm just saying I don't know if the board's standard answer to mpg questions should be "patience Grasshopper" or "learn to drive." Who knows, in another 5k miles I might be the next preacher of patience. I hope so. By the way, does your scanguage show you rail pressure? If I can't access it electronically some way I'm screwed. Don't want to shop for a 30,000 psi fuel pressure gauge. :wink:

No the scangage does not show fuel rail preasure and the CRD does not really read the rail pressure other then pass/fail type of reading. The only way I guess is as you say, have a 30,000 psi gage. TQ late lock up is easy checked/found by tac, so it coule be elimanated easy enough.

As far how to drive the CRD goes just remember that once you pass 2000 rpm or about 70 mph the MPG's really nose dive because of gearing & aerodynamic's. I can run all day at 68/70 mph getting 32/34 mpg on level highway, but once I go past 70 mph to say 75 mph I'm down to 28 mpg or there abouts. I did a short 100 mile round trip and filled up before & after the trip and I had cruised a steady 78 mph and only got 24 mpg on that trip and a week later did the same trip cruising 68 mph and got 33 mpg for that trip. This engine/drivetrain/body is very, very sensitive to the 1800/2000 RPM as for as the 28 to 32 MPG goes, step over that RPM range and the ecomony drops like a rock.

Sometimes I think all of us here get to thinking we are driving an ecomony vehicle, and get upset when we are getting the low 20's mpg city/mid 20 mpg hwy. I know I do when I get the wife's fuel bill each month, wife averages $170, when her TDI used to run us about $60 a month. However cost of fuel increase of 30% has really whacked us since buying the CRD, because she averages about 22 mpg for most of her driving in town. I have on ocassions wished we had kept the VW TDI that got 48 MPG at 70 mph on the interstate and 38 MPG city. That was a lot easier to live with, but wife had to have a 4x4 vehicle for whatever stupid reason.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:09 am

Thanks for the input guys. I value the discussion. If I didn't I would not be on here as much as I am. :wink:

CRD Engine Break-In Period ??

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