Going with the WVO conversion

japerry · **Posted:** Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:15 pm

I just talked with my service manager over at Eastside Chrysler/Jeep in Bellevue, WA. He said that while an IP would most certainly be rejected by DC, he sees no reason why if your brakes, transmission, or other issue comes up that he can't warranty it. Basically, as long as a part that goes to be repaired doesn't show evidence that it has been tampered with, it should be fine.

That said, IPs are not cheap. But if done correctly, they shouldn't fail. EGR issues and other such things are still going to be covered under warranty

chrismc · **Posted:** Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:44 pm

I would think that an EGR failure would most likely NOT be covered under warranty if you're using an alternate fuel. Insufficiently heated WVO (or incompletely reacted BioD) will not do a complete burn, which will create much more soot. As we all know, soot is 50% of the EGR problem. I don't think its much of a stretch to tie EGR failure to off-spec fuel... If they cover it, great. If not, I wouldn't bother arguing about it.

IP failures are the cheapest of your concerns. If you're getting an incomplete burn, you will get carbon buildup on your cylinder walls, which will trash your rings and/or drop fuel in your oil, thinning it enough that its useless. How much $$ is an overhaul?

This new breed of small, efficient diesels have super-tight tolerances, designed for perfect-spec fuel. This ain't no PowerStroke! Just make sure you're doing things right with the conversion, and test it yourself, don't take the mfr's word for it.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:26 pm

Elsbett does have a conversion for the Liberty, they give me a quote one time (I'm runnning BioD fo now). I will be converting my Jetta TDI (though it isn't a common rail). The nice thing about Elsbet is that they modify the INJECTORS so the combustion will be better with viscous fluids...avoiding the problems listed above (hopefully). However, I would ask if they are confident of their systems on this particular VM engine. They do have kits for many Mercedes CDI engines, which are pretty close.

You can write Alexader Noack dirrectly at Elsbett :
noack(at)elsbett(dot)com

chrismc · **Posted:** Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:16 pm

If they can work with the finicky CDI, they should be able to handle ours with out problem. The new Mercedes are known for being really picky. Elsbett is actually a large German petro-diesel engineering company, with a small arm that works with biofuels. They know their stuff.

japerry · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:49 am

I've had no luck with the Elsbett guys. However, Frybrid seems to be going well. They've done CRD conversions and are pretty convinced that they are taking care of the engine while providing a good WVO solution.

We've been talking about gas tanks, and this digresses a little bit, but what are your opinions of this?

I just looked underneath, the exhaust system gives you at least 6 inches to work with from the drivers side downward (to become flush with the exhaust) and I think even without a lift, you could put something that is 2 feet long, one foot wide, and 6 inches tall, giving you 1 cubic feet to work with, which corresponds to about 7.5 US Gallons. And this is running right next to the existing fuel lines.

The rear tank could possibly be boosted to 22-25 gallons by making the sides a little longer (2-3 inches) and dropping it about 2,3 inches.

I'm thinking for a CRD conversion, this is the best idea.
I really don't want to loose rear cargo space--and I really don't want to split my 20 gallon tank into 15/5 ... Once the 7.5 gallon diesel fuel tank is put on, you can put a skid plate over the whole undercarriage.

Here is frybrids conversion: http://www.frybrid.com/liberty.htm

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:55 am

That is funny about the fuel cap thing, because there is a warning light for it on the dash. That said I fuel all the time in with engine running while fueling, usually because it so dang hot or it is cold and windy, anyway the fuel cap light has never come on or thrown a CEL on the Libby.

chrismc · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:58 am

That Frybrid kit looks nice. I'm glad to see there are more options for KJ's. Noone argues that they know their stuff. Just be sure to know that it may take a LONG time to get the kit. Read all the customer service complaints on their message board. If I was going WVO, I'd still use them, though (patiently). They just don't have enough staff for the demand. They really need to boost their prices and hire some more people. Everyone likes what they eventually get, so as long as you know what you're getting into ahead of time, you'll be fine.

I'm having a hard time getting a mental picture of the area you're talking about for the 2nd tank, but it sounds promising. Would it work better if you swapped the muffler for a Flowmaster or straight pipe? It seems like that would free up a lot of space.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:07 pm

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

Elsbett does have a conversion for the Liberty, they give me a quote one time (I'm runnning BioD fo now). I will be converting my Jetta TDI (though it isn't a common rail). The nice thing about Elsbet is that they modify the INJECTORS so the combustion will be better with viscous fluids...avoiding the problems listed above (hopefully). However, I would ask if they are confident of their systems on this particular VM engine. They do have kits for many Mercedes CDI engines, which are pretty close.

You can write Alexader Noack dirrectly at Elsbett :
noack(at)elsbett(dot)com

Note of caution on modifying/replacing the injectors - the ECM has to be programmed with data on EACH injector and which cylinder it's located in to work properly.

NoJoke · **Joined:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:15 am **Posts:** 6

A custom job would be best...cancel the muffler and in place of the muffer would be the tank, have the exaust pipe run through the tank which also would help the heating of the oil. I'm a big fan of frybrid

japerry · **Posted:** Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:25 pm

DUDE! thats an AWESOME idea! I'm going to go home and see how I could make this work.

Wow, yah if you go around with a exhaust heated veggie tank, that'd rock AND not have to use coolant!

NoJoke · **Joined:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:15 am **Posts:** 6

I would check the temp of the exaust after the muffler to see if we can go without the coolant. I highly doubt that you can go with just the exaust especially in the winter.

Are there any Frybrid customers that can chime in with their experience?

To be quite honest the fuel economy of our trucks is NOT good and finding a solution along this route would be great. Somehow I have to reseach the egr so maybe we can bypass or trick the computer, I don't have any problems with it 15K but I feel that I will.

japerry · **Posted:** Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:13 am

Took my KJ into service last week, and apparently my 'fuel mixture' CEL was really two dead glow plugs. Odd eh?

NoJoke · **Joined:** Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:15 am **Posts:** 6

Anyone who is interested in a WVO kit please show demand so Chris G. from frybrid can put it together.

Here is the thread. http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4539&page=3&highlight=liberty

japerry · **Posted:** Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:47 pm

I'll post here what I put on the frybrid forums. I'm thinking the exhaust will work as an option.

I guess my biggest problem with frybrid (and most other systems) is the heating of the whole tank of Veggie Oil. Chemists will tell you that reheating that oil over and over again will cause it to change, which could lead to problems in the engine. For cold temperatures you could have a tank heater that plugs into the block heater, to keep it warm at night.

My thought was to take temperature readings of the exhaust while running, and see if it gets too hot to run veggie through it. If there is a way, I've seen a few exhaust heat exchangers that would work well to heat the veggie, if the temperature is right.

Lastly, use the frybrid computer, dual looped system, 5 Micron Filter/Water Separator, and an electric boost heat right before the Rail to ensure enough heat. Add a 6 gallon cylinder diesel fuel tank under the driver side, and alter the plastic tank into a aluminum one and you're set.

Even without the Jeep being lifted, you should be able to get away with a secondary fuel tank under the car. Just put a skid plate under it

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:09 pm

hate to say this to you again...but Elsbett is ahead of you on the heating issue: they only heat the oil once...as it goes through the lines into the engine. And not much, at that. Yes, re-heating oil (especially used) with continue to cook it.

japerry · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:25 am

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

hate to say this to you again...but Elsbett is ahead of you on the heating issue: they only heat the oil once...as it goes through the lines into the engine. And not much, at that. Yes, re-heating oil (especially used) with continue to cook it.

Well I think thats what I said, but those Elsbett guys won't work for me. They don't respond to email. My current MB system does not re-heat the oil, and the same would have to go for the CRD. That said, good luck finding a kit that doesn't keep heating it over and over again for the CRD. I'm still awaiting some response from frybrid, since they are local for me.

Going with the WVO conversion

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