Emissions Recall F31

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:28 pm

Let's just hope that if that is the case, a redesigned TC will be available that will be much more durable for the long-haul. I won't hold my breath on that one though.

alljeep · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:33 pm

no-blue-screen wrote:

Let's just hope that if that is the case, a redesigned TC will be available that will be much more durable for the long-haul. I won't hold my breath on that one though.

I'm not sure the TC is even a concern. We have found that the front transmission pump has been redesigned for all 545RFE transmissions because the problems we are having are the same or similiar to the DC Hemi powered vehicles using the same one. Supposed to withstand heat better and provide higher pressure to keep the TC engaged better. I put a re-post of the discovery in the CRD TSB sticky at the top of the forum...

cerich · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:53 pm

alljeep wrote:

no-blue-screen wrote:

Let's just hope that if that is the case, a redesigned TC will be available that will be much more durable for the long-haul. I won't hold my breath on that one though.

I'm not sure the TC is even a concern. We have found that the front transmission pump has been redesigned for all 545RFE transmissions because the problems we are having are the same or similiar to the DC Hemi powered vehicles using the same one. Supposed to withstand heat better and provide higher pressure to keep the TC engaged better. I put a re-post of the discovery in the CRD TSB sticky at the top of the forum...

I think you are correct, however they aren't just going to change the pump fo us unless forced, the pump will only get changed when the TC goes and for free only if under warranty. When the TC goes it may or may not take the whole tranny, so worst case out of warranty we are looking at a new tranny, TC and tranny pump plus labor, any bets that few will have that done for less than 4 grand?

alljeep · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:01 pm

cerich wrote:

alljeep wrote:

no-blue-screen wrote:

Let's just hope that if that is the case, a redesigned TC will be available that will be much more durable for the long-haul. I won't hold my breath on that one though.

I'm not sure the TC is even a concern. We have found that the front transmission pump has been redesigned for all 545RFE transmissions because the problems we are having are the same or similiar to the DC Hemi powered vehicles using the same one. Supposed to withstand heat better and provide higher pressure to keep the TC engaged better. I put a re-post of the discovery in the CRD TSB sticky at the top of the forum...

I think you are correct, however they aren't just going to change the pump fo us unless forced, the pump will only get changed when the TC goes and for free only if under warranty. When the TC goes it may or may not take the whole tranny, so worst case out of warranty we are looking at a new tranny, TC and tranny pump plus labor, any bets that few will have that done for less than 4 grand?

I agree 100% as it will never be a recall. Add transmission cooler to the list when it gets ruined. It seems to be an unknown but some dealerships have taken the stand that it is too small and does not provide enough cooling for the transmission - just sporadic reports though.

My advise, keep the radiator/intercooler/trans cooler/AC condensor area clean. With a portion of it extending below the bottom of the grill opening, I notice a lot of road dirt/dust build up there in the lowest 3-4 inches and this could be causing marginal over heating issues of the transmission.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:57 pm

alljeep wrote:

cerich wrote:

alljeep wrote:

no-blue-screen wrote:

Let's just hope that if that is the case, a redesigned TC will be available that will be much more durable for the long-haul. I won't hold my breath on that one though.

I'm not sure the TC is even a concern. We have found that the front transmission pump has been redesigned for all 545RFE transmissions because the problems we are having are the same or similiar to the DC Hemi powered vehicles using the same one. Supposed to withstand heat better and provide higher pressure to keep the TC engaged better. I put a re-post of the discovery in the CRD TSB sticky at the top of the forum...

I think you are correct, however they aren't just going to change the pump fo us unless forced, the pump will only get changed when the TC goes and for free only if under warranty. When the TC goes it may or may not take the whole tranny, so worst case out of warranty we are looking at a new tranny, TC and tranny pump plus labor, any bets that few will have that done for less than 4 grand?

I agree 100% as it will never be a recall. Add transmission cooler to the list when it gets ruined. It seems to be an unknown but some dealerships have taken the stand that it is too small and does not provide enough cooling for the transmission - just sporadic reports though.

My advise, keep the radiator/intercooler/trans cooler/AC condensor area clean. With a portion of it extending below the bottom of the grill opening, I notice a lot of road dirt/dust build up there in the lowest 3-4 inches and this could be causing marginal over heating issues of the transmission.

I don't agree that it will Never be a recall. While I will agree the possibility of it being a recall is remote.....it is still possible if we are able to lodge enough complaints with the NHTSA. A TC failure at highway speeds or even slightly slower...can cause loss of control and could possibly lead to injury or death. This is surely something they should take seriously.

cerich · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:01 pm

Agree 100%, this should be a recall, they have redesigned the unit, thus the problem is in fact proven, it is also a fact that a failure can lead to loss of control. If enough of us report problems there will be a recall!

no-blue-screen wrote:

alljeep wrote:

cerich wrote:

alljeep wrote:

no-blue-screen wrote:

Let's just hope that if that is the case, a redesigned TC will be available that will be much more durable for the long-haul. I won't hold my breath on that one though.

I'm not sure the TC is even a concern. We have found that the front transmission pump has been redesigned for all 545RFE transmissions because the problems we are having are the same or similiar to the DC Hemi powered vehicles using the same one. Supposed to withstand heat better and provide higher pressure to keep the TC engaged better. I put a re-post of the discovery in the CRD TSB sticky at the top of the forum...

I think you are correct, however they aren't just going to change the pump fo us unless forced, the pump will only get changed when the TC goes and for free only if under warranty. When the TC goes it may or may not take the whole tranny, so worst case out of warranty we are looking at a new tranny, TC and tranny pump plus labor, any bets that few will have that done for less than 4 grand?

I agree 100% as it will never be a recall. Add transmission cooler to the list when it gets ruined. It seems to be an unknown but some dealerships have taken the stand that it is too small and does not provide enough cooling for the transmission - just sporadic reports though.

My advise, keep the radiator/intercooler/trans cooler/AC condensor area clean. With a portion of it extending below the bottom of the grill opening, I notice a lot of road dirt/dust build up there in the lowest 3-4 inches and this could be causing marginal over heating issues of the transmission.

I don't agree that it will Never be a recall. While I will agree the possibility of it being a recall is remoate.....it is still possible if we are able to lodge enough complaints with the NHTSA. A TC failure at highway speeds or even slightly slower...can cause loss of control and could possibly lead to injury or death. This is surely something they should take seriously.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

I think you are correct, however they aren't just going to change the pump fo us unless forced, the pump will only get changed when the TC goes and for free only if under warranty

Don't count on it. When my TC blew, they only replaced the TC, nothing else except tranny fluid. No pump, no cooler, only flushed the lines and sent it out the door. Now it shifts like crap, revs high ( 2800 - 3000 rpm) whenever you accelerates, sometimes when just traveling along at 50 mph, it will suddenly upshift and stay there for a long time.

Getting the info on the NHTSA site is the best thing we can do to possible force a safety recall. IF the new pump is the fix, they need to recall all of them before the new models started and replace the TC while they're at it. DC won't do it without plenty of prodding.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:56 pm

Just remember that when you drop the pan and replace the filters that the FSM is wrong, this tranny takes 8 qrts + to fill to full hot mark on dipstick. If you just fill with the 4.7L of tranny fluid it will surge/jerk at idle, shift hard and buck at TC lock up.

Just went though this again with tec's at dealrship yesterday. They put the required requied 4.7L in then tried to test drive it with me riding and it did the shudder and shake when coming to stop before getting out to the street. I ask the tech what made it do that and he said low fuid, and he wheeled around a drove back to shop and dipped it again and it was just below the first hole for the cold check. He added 2 qts and off we went and just barely could feel the shudder, but it shifted hard or clunky but better. We went down the highway for about 5 miles and came back and dipped the tranny and it was just over the top of the second cold mark and no where near the hot mark. He put in one more quart and I drove it myself (the tech gave me two quarts to take with me) drove it about 5 miles and pulled into my garage and checked it and it was just at the first hot hole and I added another quart, drove around the block and it was between the holes for hot fill and made for my guess is to make the top of the mark for full hot will take at least 1/2 qt to quart more. I will know this evening when the wife get home and I can check it before she shuts it off.

How many of you have checked tranny fluid HOT from 10+ mile drive in summer heat, parked on level ground with tranny in park? Everytime the dealer has dropped the pan they refilled accoarding FSM and it ended taking about 9 qts instead of 4.7L the FSM stated to bring to full mark (top hole in upper hot section on dipstick, not lower cold section) some may be running several qts low. It will take about 2 qts to go from bottom hot hole mark to top hot full hole mark. You won't believe how smooth the tranny is with propper fill of fluid.

cerich · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:59 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Quote:

I think you are correct, however they aren't just going to change the pump fo us unless forced, the pump will only get changed when the TC goes and for free only if under warranty

Don't count on it. When my TC blew, they only replaced the TC, nothing else except tranny fluid. No pump, no cooler, only flushed the lines and sent it out the door. Now it shifts like crap, revs high ( 2800 - 3000 rpm) whenever you accelerates, sometimes when just traveling along at 50 mph, it will suddenly upshift and stay there for a long time.

Getting the info on the NHTSA site is the best thing we can do to possible force a safety recall. IF the new pump is the fix, they need to recall all of them before the new models started and replace the TC while they're at it. DC won't do it without plenty of prodding.

agree.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:02 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Just remember that when you drop the pan and replace the filters that the FSM is wrong, this tranny takes 8 qrts + to fill to full hot mark on dipstick. If you just fill with the 4.7L of tranny fluid it will surge/jerk at idle, shift hard and buck at TC lock up.

Just went though this again with tec's at dealrship yesterday. They put the required requied 4.7L in then tried to test drive it with me riding and it did the shudder and shake when coming to stop before getting out to the street. I ask the tech what made it do that and he said low fuid, and he wheeled around a drove back to shop and dipped it again and it was just below the first hole for the cold check. He added 2 qts and off we went and just barely could feel the shudder, but it shifted hard or clunky but better. We went down the highway for about 5 miles and came back and dipped the tranny and it was just over the top of the second cold mark and no where near the hot mark. He put in one more quart and I drove it myself (the tech gave me two quarts to take with me) drove it about 5 miles and pulled into my garage and checked it and it was just at the first hot hole and I added another quart, drove around the block and it was between the holes for hot fill and made for my guess is to make the top of the mark for full hot will take at least 1/2 qt to quart more. I will know this evening when the wife get home and I can check it before she shuts it off.

How many of you have checked tranny fluid HOT from 10+ mile drive in summer heat, parked on level ground with tranny in park? Everytime the dealer has dropped the pan they refilled accoarding FSM and it ended taking about 9 qts instead of 4.7L the FSM stated to bring to full mark (top hole in upper hot section on dipstick, not lower cold section) some may be running several qts low. It will take about 2 qts to go from bottom hot hole mark to top hot full hole mark. You won't believe how smooth the tranny is with propper fill of fluid.

A few weeks ago when I had the filter TSB done, their transmission tech spent almost an hour messing with the fluid level before he gave it back. Went on multiple test drives, let it rest/cool, restarted & rechecked several times. He didn't say anything but it was obvious that he disagreed with something on the TBS. Mine does shift much smoother and not having as much problems with backing uphill as I was having before the TSB. Just wonder if DC is being as cheap with the fluid allotment as they are with the time allotment on the TSB.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:17 am

oldnavy wrote:

Just remember that when you drop the pan and replace the filters that the FSM is wrong, this tranny takes 8 qrts + to fill to full hot mark on dipstick. If you just fill with the 4.7L of tranny fluid it will surge/jerk at idle, shift hard and buck at TC lock up.

Just went though this again with tec's at dealrship yesterday. They put the required requied 4.7L in then tried to test drive it with me riding and it did the shudder and shake when coming to stop before getting out to the street. I ask the tech what made it do that and he said low fuid, and he wheeled around a drove back to shop and dipped it again and it was just below the first hole for the cold check. He added 2 qts and off we went and just barely could feel the shudder, but it shifted hard or clunky but better. We went down the highway for about 5 miles and came back and dipped the tranny and it was just over the top of the second cold mark and no where near the hot mark. He put in one more quart and I drove it myself (the tech gave me two quarts to take with me) drove it about 5 miles and pulled into my garage and checked it and it was just at the first hot hole and I added another quart, drove around the block and it was between the holes for hot fill and made for my guess is to make the top of the mark for full hot will take at least 1/2 qt to quart more. I will know this evening when the wife get home and I can check it before she shuts it off.

How many of you have checked tranny fluid HOT from 10+ mile drive in summer heat, parked on level ground with tranny in park? Everytime the dealer has dropped the pan they refilled accoarding FSM and it ended taking about 9 qts instead of 4.7L the FSM stated to bring to full mark (top hole in upper hot section on dipstick, not lower cold section) some may be running several qts low. It will take about 2 qts to go from bottom hot hole mark to top hot full hole mark. You won't believe how smooth the tranny is with propper fill of fluid.

Had the filter TSB done at an indy shop, after the dealer tech proved he didn't know how to read a friggin Julian date and claimed the TSB didn't apply, but admitted at the same time the tranny had been two quarts low the whole time I was putting the first 6500 miles on it. :evil:

Indy shop got it right on the first go round, took 3 test drives and 9 quarts for a proper air purge/fill of the tranny. Helped that the guy who owned the place was a former CJD tech and had dealt with DC's nonsense before.

Haven't had a problem out of it since.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:39 am

I think it is just a mistake in the text of the FSM, because of what it list for rebuild/initial fill amount of 14 qts of fluid. Now I am here to tell you that when you drop the pan you will not leave 10 qts of fluid in the TQ & cooling lines, and the manual says to add 4 qts when servicing. My guess is it may have been a typo and should have been 8 qts because the tranny is draining all the cooling lines, cooler, but not the pump. Then when you refill, it pumps it up into the cooling lines, filters and everywhere else, but when it is only filled with 3 or 4 qts at service and they go by the FSM and the cold full marks then send you on your way you have a tranny with fluid low enough to have the TC with little or no fluid to operate properly and pump that is running almost dry.

When it is filled like FSM says then you have all the same symptons the TSB was trying to correct because of inproper filter allowing draining of TC after prolonged sitting and a bad situation is made worse when this is done to the tranny resulting in total failure. But you try to tell the young engineer on the phone that the FSM is wrong he is going to disagree unless this problem is fully described and explained like I have here and then tech sends the vehicle out the door with a worse problem then it had when it came in the door.

I still say this is why as one of those that has had this TSB done and checked behind tech for propper fluid level, even on non related TSB related ocassion, is why we have had no further tranny problems and our tranny shifts as it should.

Let me restate that this really makes a very big difference in tranny operation and even when hot and the fluid is 1/8th inch below the upper low full hot hole, if you add a qt to bring into the middle of the two holes the tranny smooths out even more.

Jim Friese · **Posted:** Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:45 am

I had my recall done last month and my Scangage II seems to work OK except when you use the cruse control it give a wrong MPG.
The RPM's reads find as does MPH and Water Temp. I am sstill testing it and will let you know more later. Have a nice day. Jim

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:53 am

Jim Friese wrote:

:P I had my recall done last month and my Scangage II seems to work OK except when you use the cruse control it give a wrong MPG.
The RPM's reads find as does MPH and Water Temp. I am sstill testing it and will let you know more later. Have a nice day. Jim

Jim, please keep us posted on this. I really want a scangage - if it will maintain communications and keep working. Your post doesn't say, but I assume you had trouble with the scangage before the recall?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:38 am

Goglio704 wrote:

Jim Friese wrote:

:P I had my recall done last month and my Scangage II seems to work OK except when you use the cruse control it give a wrong MPG.
The RPM's reads find as does MPH and Water Temp. I am sstill testing it and will let you know more later. Have a nice day. Jim

Jim, please keep us posted on this. I really want a scangage - if it will maintain communications and keep working. Your post doesn't say, but I assume you had trouble with the scangage before the recall?

I guess I will take my SG and give it a test this weekend if we take the Jeep anywhere.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Sep 02, 2006 4:28 pm

oldnavy wrote:

I think it is just a mistake in the text of the FSM, because of what it list for rebuild/initial fill amount of 14 qts of fluid. Now I am here to tell you that when you drop the pan you will not leave 10 qts of fluid in the TQ & cooling lines, and the manual says to add 4 qts when servicing. My guess is it may have been a typo and should have been 8 qts because the tranny is draining all the cooling lines, cooler, but not the pump. Then when you refill, it pumps it up into the cooling lines, filters and everywhere else, but when it is only filled with 3 or 4 qts at service and they go by the FSM and the cold full marks then send you on your way you have a tranny with fluid low enough to have the TC with little or no fluid to operate properly and pump that is running almost dry.

When it is filled like FSM says then you have all the same symptons the TSB was trying to correct because of inproper filter allowing draining of TC after prolonged sitting and a bad situation is made worse when this is done to the tranny resulting in total failure. But you try to tell the young engineer on the phone that the FSM is wrong he is going to disagree unless this problem is fully described and explained like I have here and then tech sends the vehicle out the door with a worse problem then it had when it came in the door.

I still say this is why as one of those that has had this TSB done and checked behind tech for propper fluid level, even on non related TSB related ocassion, is why we have had no further tranny problems and our tranny shifts as it should.

Let me restate that this really makes a very big difference in tranny operation and even when hot and the fluid is 1/8th inch below the upper low full hot hole, if you add a qt to bring into the middle of the two holes the tranny smooths out even more.

FYI: Looked at the paperwork from when my filter TSB was done. They itemize 7 qts. of ATF+4 on 3 separate line listings (4 qts. with the stack of parts, then 2, then 1 more at the bottom).

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:43 pm

Sounds good. Have you checked it to see where it is on the dipstick?

pigfscker · **Posted:** Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:53 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

Jim Friese wrote:

:P I had my recall done last month and my Scangage II seems to work OK except when you use the cruse control it give a wrong MPG.
The RPM's reads find as does MPH and Water Temp. I am sstill testing it and will let you know more later. Have a nice day. Jim

Jim, please keep us posted on this. I really want a scangage - if it will maintain communications and keep working. Your post doesn't say, but I assume you had trouble with the scangage before the recall?

I guess I will take my SG and give it a test this weekend if we take the Jeep anywhere.

Prior to having F31 done I could not get my scangauge to read any mpg related data at all. Now, it works, though not perfectly. Did about 8 hours of driving yesterday and found that the scangauge will usually freeze up on mpg data after about 30 minutes to an hour. Better than it not working at all however.

I only stopped once so the two lockups are all I have to report. One at 1 hour into the drive and another 30 minutes after stopping at taco smell for a burrito. Also worth noting is that once it freezes up I have had to turn the car off entirely, disconnect the scan gauge, start the car, then reconnect the scan gauge to get it working again. I tried several combinations to get it working without having to stop/restart the car - all to no avail.

Better than before however.

-G

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:52 pm

oldnavy wrote:

[snip] pulled into my garage and checked it and it was just at the first hot hole and I added another quart, drove around the block and it was between the holes for hot fill and made for my guess is to make the top of the mark for full hot will take at least 1/2 qt to quart more. I will know this evening when the wife get home and I can check it before she shuts it off.

How many of you have checked tranny fluid HOT from 10+ mile drive in summer heat, parked on level ground with tranny in park? Everytime the dealer has dropped the pan they refilled accoarding FSM and it ended taking about 9 qts instead of 4.7L the FSM stated to bring to full mark (top hole in upper hot section on dipstick, not lower cold section) some may be running several qts low. It will take about 2 qts to go from bottom hot hole mark to top hot full hole mark. You won't believe how smooth the tranny is with propper fill of fluid.

I drove mine today for 15 miles and then checked it. It was at the bottom of the first hot fill hole and the outside temperature is cool at 75. I got a quart and put half of it in and it's right at the top hole. I've not driven it much to know if it shifts better. Lately I've noticed a rough shift at just under 30 mph when going easy. My surging/shuttering mostly only happens when it's not totally warmed up. So seeing how much lower cold is then hot it may correct the surging/shuttering at 50+ Also the other night totally warmed up it surged for a good 15-20 seconds and it's never gone on that long. Maybe at 2800 miles it's raising it's ugly head :shock:

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:02 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

Lately I've noticed a rough shift at just under 30 mph when going easy.

This is a software flaw in TSB 18-009-06 (18-008-06 for '06 models) and DC is well aware of the problem. It's actually a rough TC lock-up. Was told by the DC rep that it is one of the corrections made in TSB 18-023-06 and likely in the F31 recall if you can get it to take.

Emissions Recall F31

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