Motor Trend article/review

mikekj_cda · **Posted:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:58 pm

Hi guys/gals,

Recent article I read that pits the FJ vs. KJ vs. H3 vs. Xterra. I personally didn't like some of the review/comments they gave the lib, Renny at that. I wanted to hear what others thought, ect.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0604_midsize_suv_comparison/index.html

Cheers,

Mike

PBrug · **Posted:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:18 pm

Well my opinion is add $2,000 worth of upgrades to the Renegade, or $10,000 to match the price of the tested H3 then compare them. That would put them in the same price range kind of. You could also pick up a Sport in the low 20's and mod the heck out of it for less then any of those vehicle's and then compare them. Plus Jeep is always offering 0% financing, so the Liberty is always a better value.

They also are really down on the look of the Liberty. I'd take a Renegade with a 2.5" lift and 31's, over the other options. I like it's looks the best. To each there own, I guess.

smithstoo · **Posted:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:59 pm

ya know the masses read poser rags like car & driver & Motor trend.
kind of like the evening news with blah blah blah....
if the masses want kool-aid i say let'em drink.
That leaves more beer for us & we all kmow
a real man's vehicle is either
a truck
or a jeep.
all else is blah blah blah :wink:

Troysterr · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:02 am

Hey, at least they're comparing the KJ to H3's now instead of Rav4's and CRV's! We've made some significant progress!

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:32 am

I say look at sales figures...KJ winds hands down. Even against the XTERRA that has been out for some time. If they tested a CRD against them it would even be better power and mpg wise...Wonder what they will think about the 2007 KJ with more interior room and the "square" look...they will flip flop and say they would rather see a rounded shape.

desertkj · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:24 pm **Posts:** 677

I dont really listen to truck/suv reviews from car mags anymore. They spend too much time in BMWs and forgot the intended purpose of some of the vehicles they are testing.

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:17 am

Won't be the 2007's, Darby. 2008 or 2009 will be the new look.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

If you want a real laugh... go read what Consumer Reports says about the CRD. According to their great wisdom it gets an average of 11mpg. Oh wait, they "revised" that to make it get 18 mpg later on.According to their annual guide it should be avoided because it is "noisy" and "slow". I have to wonder what they were driving.

I read the Motor Treand article awhile ago and all the complaints about it not being able to traverse terrain as well as the other contenders centered around two things--- the stock tires crappy traction and the low ground clearance.

And that is why these articles are often useless. If the Liberty with a 2.5 inch lift and better tires could have whipped up on all these guys and still cost less even with the lift and tires--- well that is something customers would want to know. That is something these magazines will never tell you-- they only test what the car came with. Remember, these are the same folks that made the Honda Ridgeline the "Truck of the Year". So when am I going to see construction workers trading in their Cummins, DuraMax, and Hemi trucks for the "Ridgeline" because Motor Trend liked its cup holders and refined ride better?

They mentioned the RTI index scores-- I wonder if they were smart enough to disconnect the swaybars on the venicles-- does not look like it. But if one came with an electronic push-button disco- they would probably push the button and say it was "better" on the RTI ramp than the rest. Real geniuses. They should stick to testing BMW's-- that is something they understand. Trucks and Jeeps... no.

jeeplikens · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:58 am

Well I'm sure to get some "super highway road rage" with this post but after reading what they said about the KJ (renny), they pretty much are on the mark. Guess you have to look at what comes standard on the other vehicles before you realize the KJ is out of it’s element with the other 3. Bottom line (now here it comes), maybe they should compare our KJ's to the likes of RAV’s and CRV's. That way we don't get our stupid's wiped every time they pit us against rigs we have no chance of out performing. This is my just my 3 years of driving a Sport/KJ opinion. Sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings. :oops:

But I think it says it all about our rigs when DCX can't even provide snatch points on a 4x4, unless you buy the hooks or the "off road" package. Not bashing my rig but trying to be realistic and accept it for what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

moose · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:27 am

jeeplikens wrote:

Well I'm sure to get some "super highway road rage" with this post but after reading what they said about the KJ (renny), they pretty much are on the mark. Guess you have to look at what comes standard on the other vehicles before you realize the KJ is out of it’s element with the other 3. Bottom line (now here it comes), maybe they should compare our KJ's to the likes of RAV’s and CRV's. That way we don't get our stupid's wiped every time they pit us against rigs we have no chance of out performing. This is my just my 3 years of driving a Sport/KJ opinion. Sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings. :oops:

But I think it says it all about our rigs when DCX can't even provide snatch points on a 4x4, unless you buy the hooks or the "off road" package. Not bashing my rig but trying to be realistic and accept it for what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now if DCX would just start putting / offering a real off road package on the Renny.... (My dealer did offer a 2.5" Skyjacker lift for $1500, but DCX needs one from Toledo so that these reviewers will option it in their test vehicle)

MattyMac1 · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:50 am

jeeplikens wrote:

Well I'm sure to get some "super highway road rage" with this post but after reading what they said about the KJ (renny), they pretty much are on the mark. Guess you have to look at what comes standard on the other vehicles before you realize the KJ is out of it’s element with the other 3. Bottom line (now here it comes), maybe they should compare our KJ's to the likes of RAV’s and CRV's. That way we don't get our stupid's wiped every time they pit us against rigs we have no chance of out performing. This is my just my 3 years of driving a Sport/KJ opinion. Sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings. :oops:

But I think it says it all about our rigs when DCX can't even provide snatch points on a 4x4, unless you buy the hooks or the "off road" package. Not bashing my rig but trying to be realistic and accept it for what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hi, My exact thoughts, the KJ is was it is. Nothing more nothing less.If I could trade it for an FJ or H3 for free i would do it in a heart beat. Lockers, height, and bigger tires from the getgo is a serious plus in my book. Everybody talks about how you can mod the KJ for it to truely go up against these but thats the whole point of these tests, they are taking stock vehicles and comparing them. Yes the stock tires are bad on the KJ and the stock tire on the other vehicles are bigger/better from the factory, that's what and why they are comparing them.Taking off the rear sway bar for added reach? thats convienent. Hey Shmitty before we do the test for this lets start taking the Liberty apart I heard it does alot better if you start removing parts. :shock:

You could take a Honda civic and mod it out and compare it to performing against a stock BMW. My brother in law has an H3 it's loaded and can out perform off road like nothing from the height diff alone. I like my KJ but don't love it, i think the tranny is awful the way it up/down shifts at odd times. I'm not bashing just trying to keep it real. Just my opinion.Maybe DC will take into consideration some of the comparisons and make a more suitible vehicle for off road.

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:58 am

moose wrote:

Now if DCX would just start putting / offering a real off road package on the Renny.... (My dealer did offer a 2.5" Skyjacker lift for $1500, but DCX needs one from Toledo so that these reviewers will option it in their test vehicle)

I agree moose, a real offroad package should be an option available from the factory, how many here would have dug a little deeper in their pockets to get a factory lift, bigger tires, lockers, better skid plates, etc? I know I would have.

Video Guy · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:33 am

Jeger wrote:

... how many here would have dug a little deeper in their pockets to get a factory lift, bigger tires, lockers, better skid plates, etc?

Me! I got chewed out for suggesting this before for lack of personalization. I view "personalization" as a slow, expensive process of finding what works best for your needs through trial and error. For the mechanically inclined who like to tinker with their rigs and who have access to every tool under the sun, having a choice between OME springs and Rusty's Offroad is exciting. Great. For those of us, on the other hand, who just want what works, it would be nice for Daimler Chrylser to offer a Liberty trim package analogous to the Wrangler's Rubicon package. I paid $22K for my '03 Sport when I bought it new. I would have gladly paid more for a factory-built KJ with 31" MT/Rs or BFG Mud-Terrains, 2" coil spring lift, electronic sway bar disconnect like the new Rubicon, rock rails, and skids plates. Financing those upgrades at 6-9% interest for 3-5 years (I did 0% at the time) is much better than buying aftermarket with a credit card at 23%.

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:51 am

Its a Jeep, its gonna get modified, I agree with that. But if we had the mods we are doing now to begin with from the factory, then what would we modify? We would already be working on custom Lower Control arms, High (er) angle Cv'S, modified Fenders, etc. People are going to personalize/modify their Jeep. The only thing different would be where we start, and how that review would have read. It could have said, "Jeep has really done it right with their first IFS rig, if the amount of travel doesnt get you through just flip the switch on one of three electronic lockers and the KJ would claw its way out of everything we through at it" But DC dropped the ball as usual and so we got the thumbs down.

Troysterr · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:48 am

Well, as far as I'm concerned, Jeep got it right with the Liberty. They're selling like hotcakes and keeping the brand afloat so that they can keep making their niche vehicles. Whether you like it or not, every car manufacturer has to make money, or they end up cutting 1/3 of their workforce, like Ford is doing now.

I bought my KJ knowing what its limitations were, and then I had a blast modding it to perform the way I want it to. It doesn't matter to me what Motor Trend says, as long as Jeep keeps selling a lot of KJs, mine keeps climbing slickrock like a mad dog, and cool mods keep coming out for it.

Wheel 'em if you got 'em!

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:53 am

Troysterr wrote:

Well, as far as I'm concerned, Jeep got it right with the Liberty. They're selling like hotcakes and keeping the brand afloat so that they can keep making their niche vehicles. Whether you like it or not, every car manufacturer has to make money, or they end up cutting 1/3 of their workforce, like Ford is doing now.

I bought my KJ knowing what its limitations were, and then I had a blast modding it to perform the way I want it to. It doesn't matter to me what Motor Trend says, as long as Jeep keeps selling a lot of KJs, mine keeps climbing slickrock like a mad dog, and cool mods keep coming out for it.

Wheel 'em if you got 'em!

I agree the liberty as a whole is a huge success. The liberty in some reviewers books falls short and therefore gets a bad rap in some comparisons. I wouldnt have bought any other suv. I wasnt forced to buy the KJ, I chose to, and a CRD at that! I'm very happy with the capabilities of the stock base KJ, just would have been nice if DC would have done a KJ "Rubicon" to make it look a little better to everyone.

mikekj_cda · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:10 am

A Rubi edition Lib would be awesome but isn't that the Renegade? I have a real beef with the H3 doing better than the KJ in this review but the results/performance apparently speaks for itself

. Plus up north here in oil country; it seems every oil worker goes out and buys himself an H2 and gets an H3 for the wife. They buy those or a Chev Avalanche. I get sick of seeing them all over the place

.

I wonder how a stock H3 would fair on the Rubicon? Now that would be a real test.

Mike

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:50 pm

Are all 2006 KJ models now with those smaller tires? At least the Reny (of old) had 235's and more aggressive (not by much) tread than those 225's..

The Reny package really is mostly a cosmetic upgraed and not that much of an off-road upgrade. Especially with the last two years.

You could tell where the author/reviewer sat when it came to the Libby. The KJ gets a better Ramp test than the Xterra but is still rated lower. They mention what the Xterra has in the diff but do not mention all of the new Electronic control stuff on the KJ.

The reviewer must be a member of that unlimited Jeep website and magazine for Jeeps.

nolakj · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:06 pm

Having wheeled with both a stock FJ and an H3 I will admit. Stock, they both out did my stock KJ. Since I got my lift and tires, I have since wheeled with the same stock FJ and can go anywhere he can. The biggest problem is if something goes wrong with the FJs locker, it can be repaired under warranty by the dealer. If my ARB (which I haven't bought YET) goes out, I have to remove it, send it in, have it re-installed etc.... PITA

I still love my KJ though......

Gris · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:04 pm

Did anyone really expect anything different? I have yet to see the Liberty get a good revue except for that "truthaboutcars" thing a few months ago when the author got blasted because he dared to say an SUV was the devil incarnate.

F motor trends for riding the bandwagon and F DCX for destroying the jeep line completely as of 2007.

You'd figure the company who's name is synonimous (sp?) with off-road for the past 50 years, Jeep, would go a little more out of the way to enforce that image.

Let all the punks in their H3s that are scared of going off-road and all the XTerra and FJ owners that think they can go off-road eat the mud stuck in the skids of any modified liberty, which still costs less than either of the other 3.

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