Advice Please

cerich · **Posted:** Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:41 pm

OK, I posted almost two weeks ago that they couldn'd complete the F31 recall. Numerous call and no ansers from Dealer or DC.

I drive 99% of the time in the CRD on the highway at 75-80mph, thus have had very few shudder incidents. It did stall in the Blue Ridge mountains a couple times 3 weeks ago, not a fuel problem and shook like I had many flat tires. Started and ran same as normal after.

Today I drove approx 250 mile at speds of 45-60 mph, The CRD was just plain annoying, at 55-60 when slightly sowing down,accelerating I would get the "clunk" and "kick in the pants" almost every 5 mins.. If you guys that drive in that speed range normally have had the same I'm not sure how you can stand it!

What would you do next? I like the vehicle and would like to keep it.

Thanks

AZScout · **Posted:** Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:03 pm

I keep it in OD whenever I am below 55mpg. Once I know I will be going faster than that, I turn off the OD at 55 mpg. This should put you at about 2300 RPM when switching. This keeps the tranny cooler because there is much less shifting and hunting back and forth when you are near that dreaded 58 mph zone. I've heard that this should also save some gas. Not sure if this was what you were looking for...

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:07 pm

Mine doesn't mind that speed at all...but it is flatter here in Texas so the tranny just lugs around no matter what. Have you been able to take the Service Manager for a ride...schedule an appointment to do that if you think you can duplicate the results.

Otherwise the TransGo shift/tranny kit might be in your future.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

If you're anywhere near the time for annual inspection, have it done. If it fails, contact the DC zone office with a registered letter, stating that the vehicle will not pass inspection, that DC's recall is being denied you and your next letter will be to the EPA. If you do fail inspection, you'll probably get a response.

While I'm no big fan of the course the EPA has taken on emissions, I'm even less of a fan of companies who deliver faulty products and refuse to honor their warranty.

If you do fail inspection, be prepared to follow through and contact the EPA if DC attempts to igrnore you.

groucho · **Posted:** Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:32 am

Definitely contact your AG to establish a record that the vehicle is not "emissions" correct and that DC has threatened to void your emission warranty if YOU do not get the F31 update but that the F31 update failed and DC won't respond to your inquiries. Then, it is a matter of official record. DC will do absolutely anything to ignore you or put you off. They will lie to your face, smiling all the while. Include a copy of the service receipt indicating that F31 failed.

As far as "keeping", that is a personal decision. Some folk are going to drive theirs for many miles without incident, and others will have a problem from day one and until they dispose of it. It all depends on your tolerance for pain.

I personally kick myself in the butt daily for buying this thing, not because it couldn't be a super vehicle, but because the record of DC's performance quality was and is available and I ignored it. They can't get Mercedes into the top 10 for Initial Quality, with 3 American models, 2 of which are non-luxury, beating them by a substantial margin. Even Chrysler beats Mercedes in IQ this year. Jeep, of course, is worse. Mercedes came in with 240 problems per 100 cars, with Jeep at 264. So, I would say that all that Mercedes "quality" has rubbed off on Jeep, but negatively. Obviously, the JD Power surveys are not scientific, but they do list initial problems. Also, there is some relationship within families of vehicles. Lexus is 1st, and Toyota also appears in the top 10, far ahead of Mercedes. Chrysler, Mercedes and Jeep are all down the list. Toyota didn't capture 1st and 9th by manufacturing cars that have spotted seats throughout the entire line and for several year models.

If you have extended warranty, I'd run that thing until the TC fries, and it sounds as though it is in the initial stage of failure. I also would not worry about F31 as it may be worse in effect than what you have currently. Course, if the TC fries, you are going to get Jeep service and parts; that is back to square one until the next failure. The ball is in their court. Keep your records. You tried, right? If you require dependability and drivibility, find something else. I know someone is going to claim that theirs runs great, but "theirs" isn't yours!

I pulled a very heavy load of firewood on my flatbed trailer last Saturday, and the thing has never run more smoothly. It pulled in OD without shifting down and ran up to 70 mph like it was wanting to work. Course, that is not a viable remedy for all the bucking and jumping.

My CRD has more service dept. visits than the total of the 14 other vehicles I have purchased in the last 16 years. Since I am not fond of wasting my time in such surroundings, I suppose that other arrangements will be made. We've had 4 Cherokees that never had a problem.

Good luck with yours. If you aren't using a lubricity additive in your fuel, you might try one. If you are using BioD, you've got it. Seems that mine smoothed somewhat when I added Stanadyne although I also had 2 flashes. But, the Stanadyne seemed to make a difference before the flashes. Who knows? We shouldn't even have to be discussing such nonsense.

Good luck with DC.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:16 am

cerich wrote:

Today I drove approx 250 mile at speds of 45-60 mph, The CRD was just plain annoying, at 55-60 when slightly sowing down,accelerating I would get the "clunk" and "kick in the pants" almost every 5 mins.. If you guys that drive in that speed range normally have had the same I'm not sure how you can stand it!

When you describe "clunk" and "kick in th pants", do you mean the engine is momentatily loosing power/hesitating? Is it dropping out of gear (transmission slipping)? Or are you at a speed close to the shift point where the tranny is "hunting", shifting frequently, and shifting roughly?

With the F31 recall issue, I would NOT do anything verbally (phone calls) with DC. I would send a brief letter, certified mail, to both the owner of the dealership and DC giving them 10 days to decide if they will make repair (F31 recall and any other problems you are having) or choose to repurchase your vehicle. Trust me, they will call you.

cerich · **Posted:** Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:40 pm

RFCRD wrote:

cerich wrote:

Today I drove approx 250 mile at speds of 45-60 mph, The CRD was just plain annoying, at 55-60 when slightly sowing down,accelerating I would get the "clunk" and "kick in the pants" almost every 5 mins.. If you guys that drive in that speed range normally have had the same I'm not sure how you can stand it!

When you describe "clunk" and "kick in th pants", do you mean the engine is momentatily loosing power/hesitating? Is it dropping out of gear (transmission slipping)? Or are you at a speed close to the shift point where the tranny is "hunting", shifting frequently, and shifting roughly?

With the F31 recall issue, I would NOT do anything verbally (phone calls) with DC. I would send a brief letter, certified mail, to both the owner of the dealership and DC giving them 10 days to decide if they will make repair (F31 recall and any other problems you are having) or choose to repurchase your vehicle. Trust me, they will call you.

I mean it hits the gear hard, no loss of power.

I actually took the CRD to another dealer today. I had called and interviewed a few.

This one the service writer called the diesel guy.

He asked detailed questions on what it has been doing. He also brought up without any mention that he is going to inspect the CAC and hoses because he has seen a bad pattern with the CRD's. He was strangly confident that he will cure the tranny, like "Don't worry about if, I've had a few and fixed them all, Star just needs to be told what to do". The F31 he immediatly made the comment "if the TCM won't take the recall it'll need to be replaced, been there" This dealer has sold a few CRD's and he has been "working with them all".

I'm hoping that he is as competent as he let on.

Fingers crossed...

cerich · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:42 pm

Update, CRD is done, both recalls and It''ll run smooth now. Asked what they did and his answer was "poked around and adjusted a couple things. I'm going to ask more details when I pick it up in the morning

AZScout · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:30 am

Wow...sounds like he knows what he is doing which is what the CRD's really need...a competent diesel mechanic that can troubleshoot and fix problems so that we can post the solutions here at LOST. Keep us posted, please, and Thanks!

RFCRD · **Posted:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:12 am

cerich wrote:

I mean it hits the gear hard, no loss of power.

The reason I asked is mine did the same thing early last Spring. The only difference was I was coming to a "rolling stop" at the time. Was acting like it down shifted into a neutral, then slammed into gear (tire smoking, white knuckle ride type slamming) and in one instance spun me clear around backwards on a rainslick expressway ramp. But hey, the CRD doubles as an amusement ride and DC didn't charge me extra for that option! They reflashed with TSB 18-009-06 replace the TCM in the process then I argued until I got the filter TSB done, hasn't done it since.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:51 am

Like I have said many tinmes here on the forum, the tranny problems are all about improper filter and fluid fill with some glitches in the software. I caught our low tranny fluid and wrong filter early early on and we have had no problems what ever with the tranny. We always allow time (I have always stresssed this with wife and daughter) for fluid transfers befor putting cars in gear and driving off, generally about 30/60 seconds. I was always told by tranny techs to allow fluid pump time before putting into gear and it was more important then even the engine because the tranny could be damaged quicker.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

oldnavy wrote:

Like I have said many tinmes here on the forum, the tranny problems are all about improper filter and fluid fill with some glitches in the software. I caught our low tranny fluid and wrong filter early early on and we have had no problems what ever with the tranny. We always allow time (I have always stresssed this with wife and daughter) for fluid transfers befor putting cars in gear and driving off, generally about 30/60 seconds. I was always told by tranny techs to allow fluid pump time before putting into gear and it was more important then even the engine because the tranny could be damaged quicker.

I have to echo what Old Navy is saying. I only have 5K on the clock so far, but I had the tranny re-flashed and the pan TSB done at about 3500 miles. There were only tiny, minor bucking problems before and none now. I then checked the fluid about 500 miles after the pan TSB was done and it was 1.5 quarts low. My Jeep dealer is near work, so on my lunch hour I went there and told them to add more.

Here is a tip for everyone. Most techs at the dealerships will check your fluid level while the CRD is in Neutral, and insist that that is how it is done on all transmissions. Not so - in our owners manual, it specifically says to check it while in Park. They, at my dealership, also insisted that the pressure in the Transmission lines and tank are different between park and neutral. I'm not sure why that is, but, when they checked my fluid in Park, I was 1.5 quarts low.

The Service Writer was barely aware that the CRD has a different transmission than the V6. Another thing to point out up front.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:11 pm

richardkf wrote:

I have to echo what Old Navy is saying. I only have 5K on the clock so far, but I had the tranny re-flashed and the pan TSB done at about 3500 miles. There were only tiny, minor bucking problems before and none now. I then checked the fluid about 500 miles after the pan TSB was done and it was 1.5 quarts low. My Jeep dealer is near work, so on my lunch hour I went there and told them to add more.

Here is a tip for everyone. Most techs at the dealerships will check your fluid level while the CRD is in Neutral, and insist that that is how it is done on all transmissions. Not so - in our owners manual, it specifically says to check it while in Park. They, at my dealership, also insisted that the pressure in the Transmission lines and tank are different between park and neutral. I'm not sure why that is, but, when they checked my fluid in Park, I was 1.5 quarts low.

The Service Writer was barely aware that the CRD has a different transmission than the V6. Another thing to point out up front.

I am glad you mentioned the park vs neutral thing, as I forgot to mention as being a common mistake. I had to show the tech the dipstick where it said hot in park, and his comment was all the others were done in neutral. I did say in my instructions though to have it in park, so at least I got the important thing done.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

oldnavy wrote:

richardkf wrote:

I have to echo what Old Navy is saying. I only have 5K on the clock so far, but I had the tranny re-flashed and the pan TSB done at about 3500 miles. There were only tiny, minor bucking problems before and none now. I then checked the fluid about 500 miles after the pan TSB was done and it was 1.5 quarts low. My Jeep dealer is near work, so on my lunch hour I went there and told them to add more.

Here is a tip for everyone. Most techs at the dealerships will check your fluid level while the CRD is in Neutral, and insist that that is how it is done on all transmissions. Not so - in our owners manual, it specifically says to check it while in Park. They, at my dealership, also insisted that the pressure in the Transmission lines and tank are different between park and neutral. I'm not sure why that is, but, when they checked my fluid in Park, I was 1.5 quarts low.

The Service Writer was barely aware that the CRD has a different transmission than the V6. Another thing to point out up front.

I am glad you mentioned the park vs neutral thing, as I forgot to mention as being a common mistake. I had to show the tech the dipstick where it said hot in park, and his comment was all the others were done in neutral. I did say in my instructions though to have it in park, so at least I got the important thing done.

The fluid level on the dipstick definetly shows different levels between park and neutral. When in neutral, it must show a higher amount than when in Park because the dealer said that it was registering normal when they first checked the level. I asked if they were checking it in Neutral and they said, "of course."

After arguing back and forth for a minute or two, I showed them the owners manual. They went and checked it again in Park and that is when it returned a low reading. In fact, in park (when I checked myself), there was barely any fluid on the dipstick.

Between the incorrect fluid level right out of the factory on some CRD's and the improper amount being re-filled after the transmission pan TSB, if the TSB even gets done, it seems more like a basic maintenance issue (keeping the resevoir filled with the proper amount of fluid) on the CRD's that is contributing to the failures since this was not a consideration in previous threads I have read on here over the past six months.

The only thing I wonder about though, is how much fluid does Chrysler say to add to the RAMs that use this transmission? What is the reason for them bucking? and the torque converters?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:13 pm

richardkf wrote:

The only thing I wonder about though, is how much fluid does Chrysler say to add to the RAMs that use this transmission? What is the reason for them bucking? and the torque converters?

The tech I was watching said they were doing all the trannys in neutral, including RAM's. His actual word were trucks not RAMs. I bet I could go to the dealer tomorrow and check, the RAM should be same as ours since it is same tranny. The size of the pumps or TQ should have nothing to do with way it is checked for fluid level I would think, but I could be wrong.

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

oldnavy wrote:

richardkf wrote:

The only thing I wonder about though, is how much fluid does Chrysler say to add to the RAMs that use this transmission? What is the reason for them bucking? and the torque converters?

The tech I was watching said they were doing all the trannys in neutral, including RAM's. His actual word were trucks not RAMs. I bet I could go to the dealer tomorrow and check, the RAM should be same as ours since it is same tranny. The size of the pumps or TQ should have nothing to do with way it is checked for fluid level I would think, but I could be wrong.

I love it, now we all have to double-check all the work our dealerships do when it comes to this recall and probably the regular transmission service later on when the fluid gets changed (probably going to under-fill there too). My Chrysler car's got as much red tape as a low-budget HMO. :shock:

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