Perished Turbo Hose

hardieman · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:04 pm

Anybody have problems with the turbo hose perishing ? Mine went at 50 000Kms , fortunately happened not too far away from dealership so was able to limp in. They replaced under warranty as faulty turbo hose . I'm interested if this is a common problem .

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:17 pm

IAN HARDIE wrote:

Anybody have problems with the turbo hose perishing ? Mine went at 50 000Kms , fortunately happened not too far away from dealership so was able to limp in. They replaced under warranty as faulty turbo hose . I'm interested if this is a common problem .

Yes, the oil running from the CCV into the turbo intake will then be pushed into the turbo hose which over time the oil will soften and weaken the hose.
Then one day you'll be driving and hear a whistling balloon sound and experience little to no power from the engine because the turbo hose has ripped.

It's fairly common to see this, because of the oil in the hose from the closed crank ventilation (CCV). This is why we are either doing the EHM or Provent200 to filter the oil from getting into the turbo hose in the first place.
As a preventive measure I changed mine at 48 000Kms.

Let's chalk it up to bad design from DCX

hardieman · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:33 pm

Thanks for the advise . The symptoms you explained are exactly correct , gushing air through the ventilation system , loss of power and black smoke out the rear. My malfunction light also came on. Excuse my ignorance , what is the EHM & Provent 2000 .

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:59 pm

IAN HARDIE wrote:

Thanks for the advise . The symptoms you explained are exactly correct , gushing air through the ventilation system , loss of power and black smoke out the rear. My malfunction light also came on. Excuse my ignorance , what is the EHM & Provent 2000 .

Well lets start from the two sources of where oil can come from in the turbo hose. First would be the CCV, second would be from the turbo seals leaking oil.

The Elephant Hose Mod (EHM) or the Mann-Hummel Provent 200 http://www.reliableindustries.com/catalog/MNH/provent.php tackle the issue of trapping the oily vapors before they get into the intake of the turbo.
The EHM is talked about in this forum and if you search for it, it will explain in greater detail how this simple modification will save not only your tubo hose but your intercooler as well.

The Mann-Hummel Provent 200 is another product for filtering the oily vapors. The website attached will discuss the product in greater detail.

If you are experiencing the turbo seals leaking then the EHM or the Provent 200 will not resolve this issue as they just address oil from the CCV.

hardieman · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:06 pm

I will definetely investigate further ,would not like to be in the middle of nowhere if it happened again , any preventative measure is better than none. Thanks once again for your input.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:33 pm

Would be nice to have a Stainless Steel Replacement for the hose and not have to worry about it at all...

tha3rdman · **Joined:** Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:28 pm **Posts:** 10

DarbyWalters wrote:

Would be nice to have a Stainless Steel Replacement for the hose and not have to worry about it at all...

Amen, or aluminum, anything but this radiator hose for a turbo line.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:34 am

tha3rdman wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Would be nice to have a Stainless Steel Replacement for the hose and not have to worry about it at all...

Amen, or aluminum, anything but this radiator hose for a turbo line.

All right it's time to FAB UP! I like the idea of a polished aluminum intake.

Jeger · **Posted:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:55 am

How close is the preformed factory hose to an exact fit? Are they close enough that you could use one as a guide to making a custom bent tube? Or do you have to bend them to get them into place?
I dont see why you couldnt get a muffler shop to bend you some stainless tube up into the basic shape of the hose maybe throw a flex joint in the middle to help with installation, and be done with it. Im not sure how you would go about clamping them down though.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:21 am

Jeger wrote:

How close is the preformed factory hose to an exact fit? Are they close enough that you could use one as a guide to making a custom bent tube? Or do you have to bend them to get them into place?
I dont see why you couldnt get a muffler shop to bend you some stainless tube up into the basic shape of the hose maybe throw a flex joint in the middle to help with installation, and be done with it. Im not sure how you would go about clamping them down though.

The bends are pretty tight so you would need to find someone with a machine that can mandrel bend the tubing. We would need to find someone to fab up at least 15 sets...both intercooler tubes (in and out). Then you would order the Silicon connectors ( 4 ) that are turbo specific. They are usually the ones you see made out of a thick bluse silicon material. Then add 4 stainless steel hose clamps that are "smooth" on the contact surface. The stock hoses would be used as a template. You would of course end up with metal tubes that are shorter than the stock rubber hoses. These would not slip over anything, they would need to fit between the mounting points with a 1/4 inch gap. The Blue Silicon connectors would make up the small difference.

http://www.stylinmotors.com/turbohose.html

GilaMonster · **Posted:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:08 pm

8 clamps for in and out hose connectors...

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:04 pm

GilaMonster wrote:

8 clamps for in and out hose connectors...

OK OK 4 per tube

2 per end

:oops:

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

What are those stainless steel braided brake lines made of inside? Are they all stainless steel or is there a rubber or synthetic liner in the inner core? If they're all steel, I would prefer a ss braided turbo connector...

RFCRD · **Posted:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:28 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

What are those stainless steel braided brake lines made of inside? Are they all stainless steel or is there a rubber or synthetic liner in the inner core? If they're all steel, I would prefer a ss braided turbo connector...

The large diameter stainless braided hoses I have used have a synthetic (believe it's teflon) liner. Common to use as R-22 or R-134A A/C lines on OTR buses. Haven't seen them larger than @ 1 1/2 inch though.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:53 pm

A solid pipe would be better and it would be easy to weld in a boss for guage hookup if needed. You could also have them "heat disapated coated" to get rid of more heat from the air charge...would be nice to coat both the intercooler and the custom pipes

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:22 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

A solid pipe would be better and it would be easy to weld in a boss for guage hookup if needed. You could also have them "heat disapated coated" to get rid of more heat from the air charge...would be nice to coat both the intercooler and the custom pipes

From my experience messing with a lot of diesels, I have mixed feelings about converting this to a hard tube of any type. Believe your gains would be small, both in durability/reliability or heat dispensation. You also have to pay attention to vibration and supporting the weight of the tube in some way (which includes bracketing it in such a way as to not crack the plastic CAC tank from engine vibtration). Also don't like the idea of adding extra joint connections, just something else to fail on the beast. If you decide to do this, thin aluminum tube would be my choice over stainless because of the weight savings and better heat dispensation.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:41 am

You have to have joint connections to mate the pipe to the CAC/Turbo ect.

The 1/4" gap is there for the specific reason of protecting the parts and eliminating any vibration/noise/rubbing.

Both pieces are going to be very short and will probably not need any huge support brackets.

Adding a "boss" is not a big deal at all and can be safely sealed when not used.

Heat is not the main reason for these pipes...it is to replace the rubber hoses that get oil soaked. Coating the pipes correctly will just give the added benefit of better heat dispersal.

Of course, Nothing is Simple

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:30 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

You have to have joint connections to mate the pipe to the CAC/Turbo ect.

The 1/4" gap is there for the specific reason of protecting the parts and eliminating any vibration/noise/rubbing.

Both pieces are going to be very short and will probably not need any huge support brackets.

Adding a "boss" is not a big deal at all and can be safely sealed when not used.

Heat is not the main reason for these pipes...it is to replace the rubber hoses that get oil soaked. Coating the pipes correctly will just give the added benefit of better heat dispersal.

Of course, Nothing is Simple

In commercial diesel hard-tube applications, usually the boot joints are a special "accordian" style specifically designed to disipate the vibration with the minimum end-to-end separation between pipes of @ 2-3 inches. In addition, the tubes are usually routed in such a way to provide extra distance/angles to disipate vibration. This arrangement is common on both CAC and coolant lines on commercial buses and have seen many boot joints split/pipes crack from vibration despite using premium silicone joints. On the CRD this is a relatively short and pretty much a straight-on shot to the CAC. Won't know until someone tries it, just a gut hunch this will become problematic.

I'm not fond of the oil soaked hose either but the failure potential is at the turbo end where it takes the worst of the heat, oil and vibration. In fact I was looking at mine the other day and found a thin spot/wear-ring where the turbo flange is rubbing into the hose. Also it's starting to feel funky soft and ballooning some at this joint. A possible compromise solution would be a hard pipe to make the first bend with a shortened factory hose the rest of the way to the CAC.

BTW Darby: Does your CRD run yet?

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:47 pm

A HYBRID PIPE...do you think we could get the tax credit for hybrids with this modification?

Yep, they replaced the whole enchilada...I mean the new engine came with new turbo, egr, alternator, AC Compressor, ect. All they had to do was drop it in and hook up some hoses and electrical connections. Runs great again...getting good mileage from the get go to. By the way, the service manager informed me it was the "only"m spare VM2.8 stateside.

Perished Turbo Hose

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