Help me select brake components!

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:27 pm

After 61,000 miles it's time to replace the ol' stoppers. I'm trying to do it on the cheap, but not with "cheap" components. Can anyone help me out? I'm replacing the pads and rotors all around. What do you all think of EB, Bosch, Monroe Dynamic/Platinum, Bendix, Raybestos or any else you can think of? Also I'm trying to determine what the best pad material is i.e. ceramic, semi-metallic, kevlar enhanced etc. to get the best possible combination of good hard stopping power without sacrificing the life of the rotors. I'll be doing the work myself, so I'm looking to spend under $300 on the components. Shoot me your ideas! Thanks in advance!

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:36 pm

from what I can rember I think most of the pads are made by the same company just with different names
I tend to just go with the OE replacment for pads and if you want a little more stopping power get drilled and sloted rotors up front that helps some
you will be limited buy clamping power and then buy how well your tires will hold
I know a bunch of guys that are going with the boosters and master cyl. from 1 ton's to stop a rig running 35+ but I dont think that clamping power is problem for you

streetKJ · **Posted:** Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:46 pm

SavageUrge wrote:

After 61,000 miles it's time to replace the ol' stoppers. I'm trying to do it on the cheap, but not with "cheap" components. Can anyone help me out? I'm replacing the pads and rotors all around. What do you all think of EB, Bosch, Monroe Dynamic/Platinum, Bendix, Raybestos or any else you can think of? Also I'm trying to determine what the best pad material is i.e. ceramic, semi-metallic, kevlar enhanced etc. to get the best possible combination of good hard stopping power without sacrificing the life of the rotors. I'll be doing the work myself, so I'm looking to spend under $300 on the components. Shoot me your ideas! Thanks in advance!

4WD Hardware has a special on Powerslot rotors and Hawk pads for about $230 for KJs. With the remaining $70 of your budget you can get OEM drum shoes.

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:06 am

Thanks for the tip about 4WD Hardware, but I have 4-wheel disc brakes. The special is for only the front axle and I'm doing all 4 wheels, not to mention those Powerslot rotors are so overpriced I wouldn't even consider them with my budget being under $300. Keep the replies coming!

winkelhawk · **Posted:** Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:17 am

Go with the EBC Greenpads, they have worked great for me so far. Low dust and great stopping power. The Powerslot rotors are also much better than the OE. I have warped 2 sets of the OE's so far. If you don't want to spend the money on Powerslots, I would try something different than the OE rotors.

detroit_doc · **Posted:** Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:01 pm

I went with Raybestos premium (PG Plus) pads both front and rear. I went with Raybestos premium (PG Plus) rotors up front and was able to re-use my rear rotors (just barely). The raybestos pg plus rotors are north american steel not chinese like a lot of other brands. The chinese steel wears more quickly.

I hemmed and hawed between semi-metallic and ceramics. After talking to a mechanic, he said they have a lot of problems with warped rotors with the ceramic pads. My front rotors warped 3 times in 38K miles with the OEM ceramics. So I went with the semi-metallics.

I threw them on and have been very happy with them. They don't have the initial bite my OEM cermics did, but they seem to have considerably more stopping power and are much more modulatable (i.e. they don't have an on-off feel). I haven't noticed any dusting problems and have no noises (although I always use a good brake grease and anti-squeek compound on my pads). So far I have not warped the rotors either.

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:36 pm

Thanks for the tip. As I understand it, it is not the pads that cause warping, it is simply a cheap rotor. The ceramic pads dissipate heat better, so therefore in theory, the rotors shouldn't be warping due to that. Apparently the Liberty's come stock with ceramic pads and cheap rotors. Now, I'm guessing that the pads were designed to work with the rotors, so again in theory, if I swap out with after-market rotors, it would depend on what the rotor manufacturer recommends for pads, if that info can be found anywhere. Thanks again!

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:23 pm

Have you checked out brembo rotors on tirerack.com? I may go with those..

Ive always wondered why kind of pads the stock ones were.. I never have any dust so I figured they were either ceramic or semi-metallic. They dont seem to make very much noise unless Im offroad going really slow with alot of torque on them. Going off the edge of a rock or something of that sort..

So are the semi-metallic pads supposed to brake better? Ive always thought ceramic was the best your could get?

detroit_doc · **Posted:** Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:20 pm

Good luck finding any conclusive info on ceramic vs semi-metallic.

I did a bit of research just now and it's kind of like the synthetic oil deal. Some semi-metallic makers have always used clay filler in their pads. But now with the "ceramic" craze, they call them ceramic even though nothing has changed so they can charge more.

Other pad makers started adding insignificant amounts of ceramics to their pads (less than 3%) and then sell them as ceramic, again so they can charge more.

Some manufacturers are on the up and up and use a large amount of ceramics in their pads (40+%). I believe Akebono is one of these companies.

Assuming we are talking about a true ceramic vs a true traditional semi-metallic. The pros for the ceramics are quieter operation, less dusting, longer wear, more consistant feel over a wide temperature range. The pros for the semi-metallics are better high-heat/heavy duty operation and slightly better stopping power (5% I've called out a few times).

I have seen both camps claim the other are hard on rotors. That probably depends on the individual pad's composition I'm guessing.

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:28 pm

While we're on the subject...I haven't gotten down there and looked at what I will need to do the brake job yet. I need to know what size wrench it is (is it one of those Torx wrenches?) because I will have to go out and buy it I believe and what other tools you all have found makes the job a lot easier. Several people have told me now (one's a Liberty owner) that they have done their front brakes (or all 4 disk) without bleeding them...? They just open up the master cylinder cap prior to squeezing the caliper piston back with a C-clamp, then tighten up the master cylinder cap again? Is this safe? I was always in the old school of bleeding brakes. Any advice or suggestions with this? Thanks a bunch - again!

detroit_doc · **Posted:** Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:49 pm

I don't remember the wrench sizes. I want to say it was a 10 or 12 mm for the calipers. If you are replacing the rotors you'll need to take the caliper bracket off too. I want to say that was like a 14mm bolt. There are no torx screws. Make sure you have a breaker bar.

I never bleed the brakes unless I have to. Unless you are changing the fluid , why risk getting air into the system? Just clean the pistons off really good and use a c-clamp to push them back into the caliper. The piston boots may not fold neatly back into the caliper, but this isn't usually a problem.

I clean everything up with brake cleaner (especially new rotors!). I avoid touching the rotors or pad friction material with my fingers (grease/oil will contaminate them). I always use caliper grease where the pads touch the shims. I also coat the back of the pads with an anti-sqeak compound. Check to make sure the caliper hardware (The pins and little grease filled rubber boots the calipers float on) is functioning correctly. If not relace them.

After changing all 4 corners, pump your brakes up before taking the car out of park. If you jump in, put it in drive you'll find out that the pistons are quite far from the rotor and you have no brakes. Take the car out and bed the brakes by doing a few slow stops from 50 - 10, a few moderate stores from 50 -10 and a few hard stops from 50 - 10. Then drive around without using the brakes (as much as possible) to cool them down.

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:41 pm

Hey, great info here detroit_doc, thanks! Some things I didn't think of in there.

Badgts · **Posted:** Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:03 pm

$300 will be tight to do all 4 corners. I recommend paying more for the pads and less for the rotors (comparably speaking). I am curently replacing my Hawk pads with some from Akebonos 'cause the Hawks make hawk noises almost every time I hit the brakes (perhaps that's where they got their name from?). Anyway, the Akebonos advertise less noise. We'll see about that. You shouldn't really approach your brakes with a low budget in mind, however. The difference in brake parts you buy could mean the difference between life and death. I never skimp on brakes on any of my vehicles. Just my $.02. If I were you I would get at least new OEM-quality front rotors and preium front pads. If you are going to go cheap somewhere, do it on the rear brakes. Hope this helps.

streetKJ · **Posted:** Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:45 pm

Badgts wrote:

$300 will be tight to do all 4 corners. I recommend paying more for the pads and less for the rotors (comparably speaking). I am curently replacing my Hawk pads with some from Akebonos 'cause the Hawks make hawk noises almost every time I hit the brakes (perhaps that's where they got their name from?). Anyway, the Akebonos advertise less noise. We'll see about that. You shouldn't really approach your brakes with a low budget in mind, however. The difference in brake parts you buy could mean the difference between life and death. I never skimp on brakes on any of my vehicles. Just my $.02. If I were you I would get at least new OEM-quality front rotors and preium front pads. If you are going to go cheap somewhere, do it on the rear brakes. Hope this helps.

Yeah, $300 is a pretty tight budget to begin with. I agree with you on the Hawk pads, but honesly, they only squeak when they arent properly warmed up, and I find I dont do enough hard driving and hard braking daily to use them in their temperature range, so they squeak.

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:21 am

Actually I figured out that a little over $200 dollars will cover the materials if I can get everything on eBay, and that's getting premium pads like Bosch or Monroe Dynamic/Ceramics. I have several weeks before I do the changeover. I didn't plan on getting Hawk pads unless I picked up the PowerSlot Rotors since they are recommended, but since both are so outrageously overpriced as it is, it's not an option. Besides, I heard somewhere that 90% of brake pad material is made in the same place with a different name slapped on it anyway, so how do we really know what is "premium" or not? I'll probably go with OEM or slightly better rotors and pads all around depending on what he rotor manufacturer recommends. Apparently the Liberty came with ceramic brake pads, however new rotors may call for semi-metallic or something else.

Help me select brake components!

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