Swaybar vs No Swaybar

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:08 am

Big D wrote:

Just curios, I understand what happens when the swaybar is off but, is the travel range put way out of the factory specs? Could the other compenents be damaged?

Depending on the exact geometry of whatever lift you may have, you can have the problem of the strut tower extending down, as in droop, so much that it comes down on top of the CV boots. I noticed this happening with my KJ when jacking the front end off the ground. Al's arms corrected this problem for me.

Big D · **Joined:** Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:08 pm **Posts:** 349

I have the Daystar 1.5/2.5 lift with stock shocks. So in effect, I have none of the inherent problems that other lift like the OTT have. Since the shocks are stock, the original range of motion is kept. So there is no contact or anything anywhere. But, I could use some extra flex and after reading all these post I'm actually thinking of removing both.

I've had a Comanche before and drove it without the front or rear swaybar for a while and opposite to what most people say the road manners were not that bad. Sure, you couldn't drive it like a race car but it never felt dangersous or anything like that.

I know the front sway bar is a piece of cake to remove but I didn't have a chance to look at the rear yet.

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:17 am

Big D wrote:

I have the Daystar 1.5/2.5 lift with stock shocks. So in effect, I have none of the inherent problems that other lift like the OTT have. Since the shocks are stock, the original range of motion is kept. So there is no contact or anything anywhere. But, I could use some extra flex and after reading all these post I'm actually thinking of removing both.

I've had a Comanche before and drove it without the front or rear swaybar for a while and opposite to what most people say the road manners were not that bad. Sure, you couldn't drive it like a race car but it never felt dangersous or anything like that.

I know the front sway bar is a piece of cake to remove but I didn't have a chance to look at the rear yet.

What's keeping your shocks and struts from bottoming out? You have the spacers moving the suspension down further, but shocks and struts that cannot fully extend to the new droop level? It'd think that'd be bad for the shocks and struts.

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

i prefer to run mine with the rear bar still attached and the front removed all the time. i like the way it feels, and its my experience and theory that it keeps the rear end from travelling too far, like everyone has to have bumpstops for. also doesnt that make it just like the anti rock bars when you put one on the back?...for transfering weight to the other front corner with lesser weight? also makes it ride smoother by letting the front end act like an IFS. dont compare this to anyones experience they've had with both removed, thats just stupid driving around like that, unless its slo mo in the dirt and i still think you have better traction leaving the rear in place.

Bakerkj · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:02 pm

OzLtd wrote:

I was sold on the idea that removing the front swaybar for offroading was good the 1st time I tested it. The difference is night and day.
But whats better is removing the rear as well

Its sooo soft off road and the car just walks over everything.

Did you know God kills a Kitten everytime you call a Jeep a Car?

Big D · **Joined:** Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:08 pm **Posts:** 349

The rear shocks are still extending to their factory limit. Same with compression. The bump stop actually goes inside the spacer to get full compression which I would not be able to do with a longer bump stop. You have to remember that if you do not change the shock, the factory range of motion remains the same whether you have a factory spring, a lowered spring or a lift spring ( or spacer for that matter). The KJ's factory specs are just over 4 inch compression and 4 inch extension. By adding a spacer or spring all you're doing is just moving the spec down by 2.5 inches. So the extension will now only be 1.5 inches while the compression will increase to 6.5 inches.

Big D · **Joined:** Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:08 pm **Posts:** 349

From a performance stand point, a rear sway bar makes very little sense in a rear wheel drive vehicule with a solid axel. In the front is where many would notice the most improvement in preventing sway. In tuning performance cars, it is more beneficial to add higher rate springs instead of using sway bars. Sway bars are really cheap fixes for poorly designed suspensions (from a performance stand point). So for max articulation, the rear sway makes no sense to me, and the front can be tuned a little with some negative camber.This will help eliminate the tendency for the vehicule to catch a tire and roll.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:31 am

Bakerkj wrote:

OzLtd wrote:

I was sold on the idea that removing the front swaybar for offroading was good the 1st time I tested it. The difference is night and day.
But whats better is removing the rear as well

Its sooo soft off road and the car just walks over everything.

Did you know God kills a Kitten everytime you call a Jeep a Car?

Thats a good one.

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

[quote="Big D"]From a performance stand point, a rear sway bar makes very little sense in a rear wheel drive vehicule with a solid axel. In the front is where many would notice the most improvement in preventing sway. In tuning performance cars, it is more beneficial to add higher rate springs instead of using sway bars. Sway bars are really cheap fixes for poorly designed suspensions (from a performance stand point). So for max articulation, the rear sway makes no sense to me, and the front can be tuned a little with some negative camber.This will help eliminate the tendency for the vehicule to catch a tire and roll.[/quote]

actually yur a little bit off. true a rear sway bar limits max articulation, but in solid axle jeeps, arent sway bars used to prevent the rear from articulating too much and the front not enough? i would imagine this would be the same in an IFS, basically, disregarding the no true articulation in an IFS.

and your idea of putting some negative camber to keep your front end from rolling is backwards. if you look at all the old 70s vans and old ford explorers or blazers and you will see the excessive positive camber. that makes the front end slide before it can gain enough traction to flip. negative camber increases grip .

Big D · **Joined:** Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:08 pm **Posts:** 349

Oops...don't know what I was thinking with the negative camber....it was actually positive.

But, here's what else I thought of.

When you see race cars going around a track, front wheel drive cars tend to lift up the back wheel and rear wheel drive cars lift up the front. To me, this seems like maximum weight transfer has occured. So to make the biggest difference in performance in a front wheel drive car, you put the biggest sway bar in the back. Effectively, you are trying to make it similar to a solid axel.

With rear wheel drive cars, the biggest difference occurs when a sway bar is put in front. Hence, my reasoning with the removing the back as it's useless.

As for the camber, yes by adding positive camber you are inducing undesteer, but I always felt more secure when the vehicule oversteers.

Guyute1210 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:48 pm

FWIW, I removed my Rear swaybar the first time I've had it out, and have never put it back on.

Also, in the ol' cherokee's if you ordered the UpCountry Factory Suspension upgrade, the first step in the instructions tell you to take off the rear sway bar and throw it as far away from the Jeep as possible. (no joke).

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

people that drive around with the rear bar removed are more dangerous than those that have the front one off.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:51 pm

jcphoto20 wrote:

people that drive around with the rear bar removed are more dangerous than those that have the front one off.

Prove it.

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

whatever

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:39 pm

jcphoto20 wrote:

whatever

It appears you are just trolling.

If you really have any proof of your claims then I would be interested in hearing it. Do you have any background in suspension tuning or something we don't know about? Why did you think to try running that way to begin with?
I Will be trying what you have said and testing w/ front bar off and rear bar on. I will even try w/ the tire pressures you have noted and if I can find the rubber doohickeys for the rear springs I just might try that too.
I feel my front bar on /rear bar off works fine on road and off but I will try your way for S's & G's.

OzLtd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:52 pm

jcphoto20 wrote:

people that drive around with the rear bar removed are more dangerous than those that have the front one off.

What a bogus claim, sorry mate, you've really got NO idea about how vehicle suspension works imo. I worked for a Steering and Suspension Specialist for 3.5 yrs before moving on in life and I gotta say what you are talking about is a load of guano...........

Sell your KJ and go buy a CAR

Trolling indeed..................

raceinfan · **Posted:** Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:19 pm

alright guy's let's not get this thread out of hand or it will be locked :!:

let's try & keep it positive/informative as best we can

Jeephead1977 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:41 am

Did Oz just say load of guano that was absolutely excellent lol you had me cracking up :lol:

jcphoto20 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:36 am **Posts:** 507

you dont have to agree with me, i dont care if you are wrong, its a free world. and by everyone ganging up on me with your little comments, you arent hurting my feelings at all.

you are amusing me.

raceinfan · **Posted:** Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:39 pm

I don't feel thier ganging up on you just voicing opinions which all are entitled to & some may just want to see what you did so maybe they can try that's all,no big deal

now again if this post is going to continue this way guy's I will lock it :!:

so please let's just get along & be happy

Swaybar vs No Swaybar

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