Dont feel like everyone is ganging up on you. This IS a discussion board which is where we discus things. This topic is one that we do not agree with you on.

The purpose of the sway bar is to keep down sway. I understand where you are coming from when you say that you need to know how to drive without the sway bar, that is true. BUT, when something does happen when you need to dodge something, the jeep will tilt, shifting weight to that side of the jeep, which in turn can cause you to flip where you wouldnt have swayed with the sway bar on.

I do not see where you are coming from when you say that having the rear sway bar off can cause more harm then having the front sway bar off? This has come up a few times and the rear sway bar isnt really a sway bar at all. Since its NOT attached to the frame in any place giving it a pivot point, it cannot do its job as a sway bar, as good as if it had pivot points. One of its purposes is to give the rear control arms strength from moving side to side.

The rear sway bar DOES limit flex some, I never said it didnt.

Keep it clean and try to have a good discussion.

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LOST KJ'S
Where are you going???
Current Jeep: 2004 Jeep Liberty
-Atlantic Blue
-Air Ride Rear Suspension ; OME/Rustys Lift ; Powertrax Locker ; Moog Lower Ball-Joints ; 245/70/16 Yokohama Geolander A/T-S's on MOABS ; Flowmaster 50 SUV
Lost #007082
http://www.cardomain.com/id/jeepjeepster

You pretty much hit it dead on Jeepjeepster,and that's why DCX lowered mid-'02 and up KJ's.They rolled in the salom with both sway bars connected,just imagine without them.I don't run the rear because it is almost useless but I do run the front because of my 100 lbs left foot,not saying I don't know how to drive a SUV,I do(my KJ is the smallest vehicle I've owned),just growing up in the middle of nowhere I'm used to driveing fast to cover greater distances faster.

I will speak for the SFA TJ crowd
if you drive a TJ with the front sway bar removed on the street then yours are bigger than mine cause I have done it and will do it in a "caravan" between trails but it is like driving a wet noddle and I had the rear on at the time I have removed the rear and keept the front on and on the street it feels fine hit the trails and disco. the front and wet noddle again but OK for the trail on the road NO WAY I had to stop and reconnect the front to drive it was hard to control over 25mph

Now what I know about the rear and front of a KJ
first it is a unibody design wich makes the rig as a whole more flexable next it is IFS so no direct link from right to left of the suspension so no way to control weight transfer NO WAY AT ALL take a look at the size of the sway bar and think
Why would they make something that is "not needed" so big and over built?
Think I am wrong the one on the Kj is bigger than the one on the TJ I also think that the rear is bigger than the TJ rear maby I could go look

Now on to the rear
it is a 3 link type rear end wich means that the lower control arms do 1 thing and that is locate the axel front to rear the upper A arm does 2 main things and that is keep the pinion angle correct ,think about how much force is put on it when you go up a steep hill in 4lo and need to "get on it" to make it the single joint does all that work to keep it from spining forward and snaping your drive shaft it also does the job of keeping the axel under the center of the rig so when you turn a corner your wheels want to stay and the body wants to go but with the SWAY BAR it helps contron the roll wich keeps the load on each tire as even a posable take the sway bar out and the single upper joint and the axel is all you have to hold your ing stable in a hard turn

I am by no means a suspension specialist but I have spent MANY MANY hours working on them and I can tell you that if it was not needed than 90% it would not be there
I know that some times things are done to say get a better ride over better prefomance but those times are rare
so far the sake of safety keep the sway bars on when you are out on the daily commute
I lke this place and all the people here even though I dont agree with every on all the time I would hate to see smoe one get hurt do to doing something dumb

Well jcphoto20 If you look at my mods in my sig. you can see that I've been ridiculed for the OTT Rustys lift. But it works well for me. If something works well for you then just use it until you see a reason not to. Even if it's never. I think that everyone on this forum is only here to learn and share experences. So what I do is just move along to the next subject no matter how wrong I feel someone may be.I've been an ASE certified Tech. for about 24 years and I know it does serve a purpose. But to be with or without it(sway bars)is a choice of yours, not ours. So we need to try and keep our differences out of arguing range and just have fun on here. After all it's "JUST A GAME".

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Ron
03 Red Libberty Sport
3.7 V6 Auto 4x4
Lifted
Cooper Discover ATRs 265/75/16
American Racing 16x8 Polished Baja Wheels
Moog Lower Ball Joints
Member#051397 L.O.S.T. Midwest

more people who are just speculating with the knowledge they currently have, instead of months of practical experience like I and Mutt have.

its been my point the entire time to pass on real experience instead making things up in your head

hmmm i would go for the point of view of experience over that of mere conjecture and guessing like lots of you STILL are.

you will also have more front traction off road if you leave the rear bar on with the front off. instead of the rear end going limp, flexing and doing all the articulation, it actually puts more weight on the front corner that you have probably been lifting in the air. so anyone sayin the back bar is useless still has their head in the sand.

im not making any of this stuff up. you are just reluctant to accept it.

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Admin note:
This account has been deactivated.

Bahahaha....let that be the truth.

Just some food for thought here.....

Has anyone thought about the weight transfer during braking and turning? The weight and kinetic energy will abruptly hunch the jeep forward.....making use of the front suspension....and as people have stated....IFS is very prone to being tippy and swaying.....so the front sway bar IS most likely needed before the rear......It's just simple physics....

But its just an opinion....and you may do WHATEVER you feel like to YOUR own jeep at YOUR own risk.....

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02' Frankenlifted White Sport on 31" TrXus M/Ts

89' 2 Dr. Khaki XJ- Waggy 44's, 4.88s, 35's, 3-link on 5.5" coils.

Very well put FastTRX.

OK you are right the guys that get PAID to design the KJ did not know what they were doing when they put the sway bar on and it should be removed
it severs no purpose and only hinders the KJ if you remove it it will handle better and be safer on and off road
you do not need to be concerned about roll center and fancy stuff like that not should you concern your self with uncontroled pich it is only natral in a jeep
and for that matter because it is a jeep it should never handel well but rather it should ride like a farm implament
is that what you are saying?
to me that is what it sounds like

as I said do what you want but I am not the one who designed the KJ so I will trust the guy who did he probably knows more than me
along with that I wasted my money trying to improve the ride on my TJ by adding all those useless parts from Nth degree mobility
who I will remind you is owned by a engineer that designed the TJ
I should just rip those off and trash them cause they are only getting in the way of the TJ's true prefomance

dude you should realy think about what you are saying
sure you like it and dont mind the funny handling but what if some kid who has been driving for a year reads it and removes his sway bars only to end up
DEAD cause he lost control think about it

This thread is interesting...SO INTERESTING that I found my rear sway bar and re-intalled it.
Then I took off my front sway bar and took a drive. The amount of body roll the IFS allowed made it feel like the rear sway bar didn't exist. Light turns going 15 MP/H threw my unbuckled passenger . I just did some handling tests around my neighborhood, but I didn't even try to do a donut in a snow patch because I was afraid I'd catch an edge and tip. When I got home, the rear sway bar lost itself again and I soon took another drive. I could tell the body roll was a little worse, especially going faster (which at this point was about 35 MP/H), but still nothing like driving with the front sway bar on. I agree with everyone who thinks the rear sway bar is pointless, but the front is definitely something else. I take the front off for offroad driving, and will leave it off going up 45 MP/H on the smoother, straighter roads out here (I guilt myself for it, but I drive very cautiously). I put it back on whenever I arrive home from the offroad trip.

All I can say is, a KJ with the front sway bar removed scares me, unless we're going slow and steady offroad. I mean sure, you CAN drive your KJ like you normally would without the front sway bar, but your accident risk easily increases ten-fold, even with an experienced driver, simply because the body roll is THAT BAD, especially at roadway speeds. Turning anymore than slightly at speeds above 50 MP/H has almost tipped my KJ more than once. I'll NEVER try that again, but it was good to find out. The rear sway bar pretty much doesn't exist to me, unless I see a KJ who's rear flex isn't as a good as it could be for that very reason. I've seen the swaybar differences on road, offroad, and on ramps. Offroad, I don't miss the rear sway bar at all. The front without the bar is really flexy for me, and the rear seems to do less work even without it's bar, as long as the front is removed. No sway bars equals max suspension travel and that means the tires find something solid (hint: not air) more often. That's what you want offroad. Maybe we have different front coils. Maybe my "heads in the sand" but my tires stay on the ground more easily than with the rear sway bar on, and I like that.

But that's just my 18 year old opinion. What experience do I have? Very little, but at least my Jeep won't be tumbling end-over-end into yours, right!? I'm not so sure about some of you, though...

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2003 Limited, Silver - L.O.S.T. # 068957 Rockies
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127390/14
2006 Kawasaki KLR650

A day after my road test (results above ^) I did some offroading with my rear sway bar on and front off. The rear definitely didn't flex as much...that's all I could tell about that configuration offroad. It kinda looked cool cause my front was always flexing and the rear seemed hesitant to, which is vice-versa from offroading with the rear off (as I always have) and the front on.

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2003 Limited, Silver - L.O.S.T. # 068957 Rockies
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127390/14
2006 Kawasaki KLR650

Anybody know of hand what size socket takes the rear swaybar off? I don't appear tohave the right size....

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TRADED 04' Renegade
Franken lift front/ Skyjacker rear
JBA uca's
245 Firestone Destinations

2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk (stock)


2014 Yamaha FZ-09
1999 Yamaha VMax
LOSTKJs #124

I think it's 18mm. I could be totally wrong...

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2003 Limited, Silver - L.O.S.T. # 068957 Rockies
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127390/14
2006 Kawasaki KLR650

Probably correct.. I don't have that size and 17 too small 19 too big.

Thanks for the help.

_________________
TRADED 04' Renegade
Franken lift front/ Skyjacker rear
JBA uca's
245 Firestone Destinations

2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk (stock)


2014 Yamaha FZ-09
1999 Yamaha VMax
LOSTKJs #124

Yeh I'm pretty sure it's that size. I went out and got a nice set of sockets that has the 18mm since I've found that size bolt on the center crossmember and the hitch receiver for sure. I'm pretty sure both the swaybars use 18mm bolts only.

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2003 Limited, Silver - L.O.S.T. # 068957 Rockies
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127390/14
2006 Kawasaki KLR650

18mm for the bolts that hold it to the frame.
18 for the lower link bolts.
a 15 and 18 for the upper link bolts

Sent you a PM.

I don't want to pour salt in anyone's wounds, but jcphoto, you have to understand something, and please don't take this the wrong way, i'm not trying to offend you, or gang up on you. What you did, was come into this thread, and post something contrary to everyone's experience and opinion without providing any proof of concept or anything. You simply called us all stupid (maybe without realizing it) and then didn't tell us why we are stupid. Now we may very well be ill-advised to drive with our rear swaybars off and the front ones on, and it may be better to do the opposite as you propose, but please provide us with some evidence to support your claim.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that your comments and criticism are welcome here, i mean, that's what this board is for, but please make sure that you provide some proof of concept or at least go about things a little kinder. Basically you just told everyone that disconnects their rear swaybar and chucks it that they're dangerous. Now maybe their JEEPS are dangerous, but putting them at fault probably wasn't the best idea. If you see someone doing something wrong, try to correct it, don't just say "you're wrong" and leave it at that. But above all, if someone (especially a moderator) asks you to prove a concept, "whatever" is probably the worst/most disrespectful thing you can say, and i think the combination of those two things is what really got everyone hot at you. Just some friendly advice...

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"It's not stuck...it just doesn't want to move on its own..."

Silver 2002 Grand Cherokee Overland (Not running as of 12/30/2014. Suspect dropped valve seat)

White 2003 Liberty Limited (RIP)

L.O.S.T. #: DV053827

savage you are right

yet, it did not JUST start on this thread

its been going on for a bit here :

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... &start=135

in the JKS discos thread

the guy acts like a child , demands he is right, and does not back it up and says were dumb...its like a temper tantrum.....and i urge all of you to just leave him alone and hopefully he'll just leave ........................... us alone also

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1998 Audi A4 1.8tQ

1990 Mazda Miata

"Remember when the platform was sliding into the fiery pit and I said 'Goodbye' and you were like 'NO WAY' and then I was all 'I was just pretending to murder you'? That was great."

OK, well after reading that little gem i think I'm just going to stop defending you JC. I mean, it seems as if you came into the 4X4 section of this forum to make small of people with years and years of experience with multiple vehicles (with all different kinds of suspension and sway-bar setups). I'm not sure why you would post all about your drifting adventures in a 4x4 forum. It would seem you would be better suited to, say, the drifting forums, or something along those lines, but hey, that's just my speculation using my current knowledge. I really can't seem to understand why you would post this kind of thing in this thread after what happened in the other thread. And please don't say "I'm trying to save you from flipping your heavy, lifted, off-road trucks by telling you to uninstall the very safety measures that are meant to keep it from flipping."

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"It's not stuck...it just doesn't want to move on its own..."

Silver 2002 Grand Cherokee Overland (Not running as of 12/30/2014. Suspect dropped valve seat)

White 2003 Liberty Limited (RIP)

L.O.S.T. #: DV053827