Shopping for KJs

Johnny Corvette · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:39 am

New to the forum. A KJ wheeler friend recommended the site. I have spent several days going through many posts. However, I did not see a general discussion for the potential buyer like myself. If this is a re-hash of an another tread please point me to it. I am looking for a vehicle that I can used to do some medium level towing, loading up with brickes now and again and just general abuse. Many of the small SUVs on car frames don’t fit that bill. I may also get into some wheeling.

I have been looking at 05 and 06 KJ. I test drove a Patriot and although it is a nice little machine I found the power lacking and the CVT transmission sluggish. I also need something that can tow and while the Patriot is rated to tow 2000# I don’t picture that going all that well. I also have tested the 06 and 07 Grand Cherokees and I pretty much melted. But they are a little too refined for me (ie I ain’t spending that much). So on to the KJs. I have looked at a few 05 and 06 Limiteds. I like the heated seats and other creature comforts. Not much of the car like ride I was hoping to find (more for my wife’s sake) but suits me fine. A little smallish interior as well. My biggest complaint has been the mileage. So I started looking at CRDs. I like them and the whole concept fits well with the Liberty. I like the way they run. Unfortunately, the CRDs add a good $2-3000 to the price. Sure you save on fuel cost and the engine should never die (in theory) but $3000 buys a lot of gas.

Looking for advice and answers. The 05 have a better warrenty (7/70k transferable down to two owners). Is there a break in period for the CRD? If I find one that has 60K miles or so what issues should I be looking for.

The 06s have the electronic stability program (ESP) but I don’t think the 05s do. Do I want this?

I like the idea of the Select track as well. Thoughts?

Well as I said any advice is great.

LiLredLibby · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:54 am

Johnny Corvette wrote:

New to the forum. A KJ wheeler friend recommended the site. I have spent several days going through many posts. However, I did not see a general discussion for the potential buyer like myself. If this is a re-hash of an another tread please point me to it. I am looking for a vehicle that I can used to do some medium level towing, loading up with brickes now and again and just general abuse. Many of the small SUVs on car frames don’t fit that bill. I may also get into some wheeling.

I have been looking at 05 and 06 KJ. I test drove a Patriot and although it is a nice little machine I found the power lacking and the CVT transmission sluggish. I also need something that can tow and while the Patriot is rated to tow 2000# I don’t picture that going all that well. I also have tested the 06 and 07 Grand Cherokees and I pretty much melted. But they are a little too refined for me (ie I ain’t spending that much). So on to the KJs. I have looked at a few 05 and 06 Limiteds. I like the heated seats and other creature comforts. Not much of the car like ride I was hoping to find (more for my wife’s sake) but suits me fine. A little smallish interior as well. My biggest complaint has been the mileage. So I started looking at CRDs. I like them and the whole concept fits well with the Liberty. I like the way they run. Unfortunately, the CRDs add a good $2-3000 to the price. Sure you save on fuel cost and the engine should never die (in theory) but $3000 buys a lot of gas.

Looking for advice and answers. The 05 have a better warrenty (7/70k transferable down to two owners). Is there a break in period for the CRD? If I find one that has 60K miles or so what issues should I be looking for.

The 06s have the electronic stability program (ESP) but I don’t think the 05s do. Do I want this?

I like the idea of the Select track as well. Thoughts?

Well as I said any advice is great.

First off....Welcome to L.O.S.T......My libberty is my first,but already I know it won't be my last.They grow on you,and once you see how versitile and capable they are you'll be amazed.The people on this forum are very knowelegable and curtious for the most part,and your friend was right,this is the place to find the best info on the KJ.

Ron

FastTRX · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:09 am

PLEASE Read the CRD Forum before considering a CRD...

I don't want to steer you away...but you should know more about the model/engine before you buy something you may later regret.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:10 am

The CRDs are a bit more but they were not an extra $3000 when they were new. The Diesel Engine really only added about $800.00. The other cost increases (looking at a Sport Model) were the Fog Lights, Selec-Trac (which is well worth the price) and the Wheels. There are a couple of issues with the CRDs:

Some things we can generalize about concerning the CRDs...

+Lower Ball Joints are still and will continue to be an issue...not even sure if MOOGs Ball Joints fix the engineering problem...probably better to replace Ball Joints with MOOGS for the zerk fitting and replace them every 40-50K like a maintenance item (applies to all years/models of KJs)

+Earlier Problems with EGRs seemed to be on the decline with the introduction of ULSD...also running it hard once in a while on the highway to "blow out" some of the "crud" seems to help along with cleaning the Boost Sensor/Temp Sensor with some brake clean ...InMotion Tuning can basically "turn off" the EGR with a program

+A few CRDs have had problems with oil soaked CAC hoses that seems to coincide with oil passing the turbo seals...supposedly the replacement CAC Hose is built a little different...also keeping the Air Filter cleans seems to help

+Fuel Leaks at the Fuel Filter/Heater have caused some problems and left CRDs in "Limp Mode"...can check for leak by priming the fuel system (4-5 pumps) and see if any bubbles emit from the electrical sensor

+++Torque Converter/Transmission Pump issues have cropped up...I don't think DC has a handle on this yet...might take an aftermarket fix to solve this problem correctly...I do not think that any 2005s or 2006s are more prone than others to failure...just the luck of the draw

Even with the concerns above, I still have some faith in the CRD. Once the tranny issue is resolved (it will be by DC-if they let us get the new 2008 545RFE internals and TC or the aftermarket), we will most likely have some great vehicles. I also think the InMotion Tuning will eventually be the other item that will improve our CRDs after the Tranny/TC issue is resolved. I am one of a couple of CRDs that had major Engine Damage. That is going to happen in any run of an engine type, but these same engines are running in Europe/Asia/Australia with success. Hard to tell anyone to buy vehicles in general...and with the above issues it is even more difficult. I still enjoy driving mine everyday! My tranny/TC has shown no symptoms of failure at 15,000 miles, no shutter, no noise, just smooth operation...but that does not mean I am not looking for the proper fix for rock solid performance and reliability.

As for a "break-in" period for the CRD...range from 5,000-7,500 miles or so for best MPG. ESP?-I like the ESP on the Automatics (which all CRDs stateside are).

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

SEE MY SIG. I am a happy camper

Johnny Corvette · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:23 am

Thanks for the info. I will keep digging in the forum. I did see a few issues in threads in the CDR section. I have also spoken to the better Jeep service shop in my area to see what they know about the CDR. They said that they see more problems with the 3.7's than the CDRs but the CDR problems can be fairly extensive.

Having never worked on a diesel engine I was wondering how diffcult it is to wrench on one of these.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:35 am

Johnny Corvette wrote:

Thanks for the info. I will keep digging in the forum. I did see a few issues in threads in the CDR section. I have also spoken to the better Jeep service shop in my area to see what they know about the CDR. They said that they see more problems with the 3.7's than the CDRs but the CDR problems can be fairly extensive.

Having never worked on a diesel engine I was wondering how diffcult it is to wrench on one of these.

There isn't too much you can or would need to do to the CRD. There is a MAP sensor that most on here have cleaned. Other than that, most work is just maintanance, like fluid changes. Don't let a few discourage you from the CRD. There are always a few owners of any make or model that are disgruntled. Drop in on any forum and you will see that I am correct. I have 24,000 miles on mine now and love it like most CRD owners.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:37 am

Johnny Corvette wrote:

Thanks for the info. I will keep digging in the forum. I did see a few issues in threads in the CDR section. I have also spoken to the better Jeep service shop in my area to see what they know about the CDR. They said that they see more problems with the 3.7's than the CDRs but the CDR problems can be fairly extensive.

Having never worked on a diesel engine I was wondering how diffcult it is to wrench on one of these.

More problems with the 3.7's? Dont let that scare you off the 3.7L, few people have problems with them and its usually on higher mileage engines.

The reason he sees more problems with the 3.7L, theyve sold over 800k of them. I believe they only made around 5k of the crds.. :wink:

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:39 am

Don't let anyone imply that we are "discouraging" you from buying a CRD as the post stated above erroneously (a couple up). Just giving pertinent information on some foreseeable problems that can crop up...for information sake only. Also there were over 11,000 made and sold in the US so you should be able to find a good used CRD.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:48 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

Don't let anyone imply that we are "discouraging" you from buying a CRD as the post stated above erroneously (a couple up). Just giving pertinent information on some foreseeable problems that can crop up...for information sake only. Also there were over 11,000 made and sold in the US so you should be able to find a good used CRD.

If he has read posts and threads here, he will be able to make up his own mind as to "if" there are discouraging words being said about the CRD's.

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:51 am

The CRD is probably the better option as a "work horse" vehicle, but my 3.7L Liberty has been prefect so far with no mechancial failures that have stopped me from driving it for the last 4 or 5 years now.

I've loaded the back full of Bricks, shrubs, camping gear, concrete bags, etc..
I've towed my broken down mustang on more than a few ocassions
I've made a few trips out of state and still haven't had any problems ever

The Liberty is a great Jeep and mine has never let me down

Jeger · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:54 am

I will just say this....currently there is no vehicle that could replace my CRD and d everything that it does. We have 25K w/no dealer visits whatsoever. It may not be a vehicle for everyone, but if you learn about a few issues that have been fairly well covered by DarbyWalters, you can take some simple steps to prevent nearly everything. And as soon as the Torque converter issue is figured out there will be no unfixable potential problems. Read up and make your own decision though.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:01 am

BVCRD wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Don't let anyone imply that we are "discouraging" you from buying a CRD as the post stated above erroneously (a couple up). Just giving pertinent information on some foreseeable problems that can crop up...for information sake only. Also there were over 11,000 made and sold in the US so you should be able to find a good used CRD.

If he has read posts and threads here, he will be able to make up his own mind as to "if" there are discouraging words being said about the CRD's.

His post was to find out "information" about buying a KJ. Your post was obviously dismissing or ignoring "known issues" that "some" are having with thier CRDs. You should maybe speak for yourself and try not to talk for the rest of the members on L.O.S.T. I have no problem with your post on it's own...but "I" do not feel it gives a complete picture of very possible issues that are "known" to happen with CRDs.

Your Words were the ones that brought up the "discourage" context:

Don't let a few discourage you from the CRD. [/i][/b]

Followed by Your Words of knowledge:

There are always a few owners of any make or model that are disgruntled. Drop in on any forum and you will see that I am correct.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:11 am

DarbyWalters wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Don't let anyone imply that we are "discouraging" you from buying a CRD as the post stated above erroneously (a couple up). Just giving pertinent information on some foreseeable problems that can crop up...for information sake only. Also there were over 11,000 made and sold in the US so you should be able to find a good used CRD.

If he has read posts and threads here, he will be able to make up his own mind as to "if" there are discouraging words being said about the CRD's.

His post was to find out "information" about buying a KJ. Your post was obviously dismissing or ignoring "known issues" that "some" are having with thier CRDs. You should maybe speak for yourself and try not to talk for the rest of the members on L.O.S.T. I have no problem with your post on it's own...but "I" do not feel it gives a complete picture of very possible issues that are "known" to happen with CRDs.

Your Words were the ones that brought up the "discourage" context:

Don't let a few discourage you from the CRD. [/i][/b]

I, on the other hand, would have thought it was the post a few up from mine, (the one above your original post) that had a negative ring to it. The point we need to make is "some" may mean "few" and "few" if any 2006 CRD's built after Oct 2005 have had the TC issues, most will have the CAC hose issue, be that from design OR turbo leakage. That by itself isn't a "death spiral" to these engines. LBJ failure is common on many makes upside down or not. I speak for myself and my own experiences. I wish "others" would do the same instead of generalizing. Let me ask you straight out DW, do you personally know of a TC failure with a build date of 11/05 or later? If so, please give the post/thread. I took your post to mean that these issues are sure to happen. Not so IMHO.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:53 am

BVCRD wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Don't let anyone imply that we are "discouraging" you from buying a CRD as the post stated above erroneously (a couple up). Just giving pertinent information on some foreseeable problems that can crop up...for information sake only. Also there were over 11,000 made and sold in the US so you should be able to find a good used CRD.

If he has read posts and threads here, he will be able to make up his own mind as to "if" there are discouraging words being said about the CRD's.

His post was to find out "information" about buying a KJ. Your post was obviously dismissing or ignoring "known issues" that "some" are having with thier CRDs. You should maybe speak for yourself and try not to talk for the rest of the members on L.O.S.T. I have no problem with your post on it's own...but "I" do not feel it gives a complete picture of very possible issues that are "known" to happen with CRDs.

Your Words were the ones that brought up the "discourage" context:

Don't let a few discourage you from the CRD. [/i][/b]

BVCRD: I, on the other hand, would have thought it was the post a few up from mine, (the one above your original post) that had a negative ring to it.

Nothing wrong with someone pointing out negatives...based on thier own experiences

BVCRD: The point we need to make is "some" may mean "few" and "few" if any 2006 CRD's built after Oct 2005 have had the TC issues

I didn't place "any" build dates in my post

BVCRD: , most will have the CAC hose issue, be that from design OR turbo leakage.

Now, where did these figures of "most" come from? Is it because "you" had an issue with the CAC hose it becomes "most"? By that criteria I would have to post that 'most" CRD engine will "BLOW UP" since mine did... :wink:

BVCRD: That by itself isn't a "death spiral" to these engines.

So dramatic...never mentioned anything about "terminal" or "death spiral"

BVCRD: LBJ failure is common on many makes upside down or not.

And I mentioned it because it is a Big Issue with nearly ALL KJs ever produced

BVCRD: I speak for myself and my own experiences. I wish "others" would do the same instead of generalizing.

Seems to me that until this post in this thread, you were generalizing about opinions of others concerning the CRD. I don't think my original answer in this thread was "generalizing" at all. Exactly the opposite.

BVCRD: Let me ask you straight out DW, do you personally know of a TC failure with a build date of 11/05 or later?

Let me think? Humm, my intials are "DW" not "DC". Seems to be that others have had the F37 recall done, which is supposed to update things to the later 2006 specs and are still having problems...MrMopar64 has from a position of more direct knowledge than most here that the 545RFE and TC in the CRDs is not sufficient or thier best work might come to mind...like I said, I am not DC and I am sure that they would not divulge that info freely

BVCRD: If so, please give the post/thread. I took your post to mean that these issues are sure to happen. Not so IMHO.

Where do you see me say anywhere, in any post, previous or current, that these things are carved in stone and will definitely happen with any and all CRDs. Again, a little dramatic I think.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:52 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Don't let anyone imply that we are "discouraging" you from buying a CRD as the post stated above erroneously (a couple up). Just giving pertinent information on some foreseeable problems that can crop up...for information sake only. Also there were over 11,000 made and sold in the US so you should be able to find a good used CRD.

If he has read posts and threads here, he will be able to make up his own mind as to "if" there are discouraging words being said about the CRD's.

His post was to find out "information" about buying a KJ. Your post was obviously dismissing or ignoring "known issues" that "some" are having with thier CRDs. You should maybe speak for yourself and try not to talk for the rest of the members on L.O.S.T. I have no problem with your post on it's own...but "I" do not feel it gives a complete picture of very possible issues that are "known" to happen with CRDs.

Your Words were the ones that brought up the "discourage" context:

Don't let a few discourage you from the CRD. [/i][/b]

BVCRD: I, on the other hand, would have thought it was the post a few up from mine, (the one above your original post) that had a negative ring to it.

Nothing wrong with someone pointing out negatives...based on thier own experiences

BVCRD: The point we need to make is "some" may mean "few" and "few" if any 2006 CRD's built after Oct 2005 have had the TC issues

I didn't place "any" build dates in my post

BVCRD: , most will have the CAC hose issue, be that from design OR turbo leakage.

Now, where did these figures of "most" come from? Is it because "you" had an issue with the CAC hose it becomes "most"? By that criteria I would have to post that 'most" CRD engine will "BLOW UP" since mine did... :wink:

BVCRD: That by itself isn't a "death spiral" to these engines.

So dramatic...never mentioned anything about "terminal" or "death spiral"

BVCRD: LBJ failure is common on many makes upside down or not.

And I mentioned it because it is a Big Issue with nearly ALL KJs ever produced

BVCRD: I speak for myself and my own experiences. I wish "others" would do the same instead of generalizing.

Seems to me that until this post in this thread, you were generalizing about opinions of others concerning the CRD. I don't think my original answer in this thread was "generalizing" at all. Exactly the opposite.

BVCRD: Let me ask you straight out DW, do you personally know of a TC failure with a build date of 11/05 or later?

Let me think? Humm, my intials are "DW" not "DC". Seems to be that others have had the F37 recall done, which is supposed to update things to the later 2006 specs and are still having problems...MrMopar64 has from a position of more direct knowledge than most here that the 545RFE and TC in the CRDs is not sufficient or thier best work might come to mind...like I said, I am not DC and I am sure that they would not divulge that info freely

BVCRD: If so, please give the post/thread. I took your post to mean that these issues are sure to happen. Not so IMHO.

Where do you see me say anywhere, in any post, previous or current, that these things are carved in stone and will definitely happen with any and all CRDs. Again, a little dramatic I think.

You said in a post several days ago, that you believed ALL 2006 and 2005 were affected by the TC issues. That it wasn't just limited to 2005 models. I meant that "most" CAC hoses will be affected at some point because of design. There has been too many off them replaced to discredit this on this and other forums. You seem to bad mouth these things, then when someone like me defends the 2006 CRD, you want to know book, chapter and verse. I speak from my own accounts and am intitled to my own opinion. Am I not entitled to that? I never make claims that I speak for ALL on here. How'd you come up with that? I wish however that "some" who have had difficulties with the CRD (2005 or later) would keep an open mind and know that they don't speak for ALL CRD owners because there are "some" of us out here that have had nothing but great success with them. They don't speak for me, and I don't speak for them, or you.

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:06 pm

I haven't read all the replies, but just wanted to chime in that I have had my libby since late december and I am very happy with it. I paid $15,000 with 10K miles on it. It's a 6-speed sport. I have already put 5k miles on it and I am pleased. The gas mileage has been ho-hum. I have seen from 18 mpg with higher speeds with 4x4hi to 21mpg on my trips to chicago all freeway, wind to my back...

The only thing I wish I had was cruise control, but I can get the MOPAR parts for $175 and install it myself, so I'm one happy camper.

Good luck with the search and make sure the balljoints have been warrantied.

Keep in mind what the factory incentives are if buying used because I used that against the dealer to get a better price on mine. I think that it's now around $3000 cash back. WHen I was buying I think that it was $4000 on the 06's...
-Mark

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:10 pm

Oh yeah, if they offered the CRD with a 6-speed manual I would own one.
Unfortunatley I don't live in england anymore, nor Oz.
-Mark

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:16 pm

BVCRD wrote:

You said in a post several days ago, that you believed ALL 2006 and 2005 were affected by the TC issues. That it wasn't just limited to 2005 models. I meant that "most" CAC hoses will be affected at some point because of design. There has been too many off them replaced to discredit this on this and other forums. You seem to bad mouth these things, then when someone like me defends the 2006 CRD, you want to know book, chapter and verse. I speak from my own accounts and am intitled to my own opinion. Am I not entitled to that? I never make claims that I speak for ALL on here. How'd you come up with that? I wish however that "some" who have had difficulties with the CRD (2005 or later) would keep an open mind and know that they don't speak for ALL CRD owners because there are "some" of us out here that have had nothing but great success with them. They don't speak for me, and I don't speak for them, or you.

I think you are referring to this thread http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=17867 and no where in that thread did I say ALL will have the Tranny/TC problem. That being said I will say that DC , based on the info that MrMopr64 presented, did fit a 545RFE that was not up to the task of the CRD. I also was not discrediting your post about the CAC hose...I was pointing out that that was the only real info you posted in your first post. That is fine because that is what you have experienced. This is about telling a poster to basically ignore or disreguard posts by others based on our experience. I started L.O.S.T. a long time ago to give people information and talk about the Liberty. I am in no way telling you not to voice your opinion, but I will clarify anything that "I" think is incomplete. We could go on all day with "semantics" but that will not help the original poster. I respect your opinion and you have the right to voice it on this forum. Right after you point this out, you tell "me" that "I" bad mouth anyone who stands up for the CRD. This was not about the CRD...it was about your comment to disreguard the ones that say they have problems with the CRD...That is all! Now, you say that members that have had a problem with their CRDs should "Keep an Open Mind". How does that comment help anyone on the forum in any way :?:

You have now implied that "they" are closed minded and that "I" don't like my or any CRD. Speaking for "myself", I still love my CRD and am taking an active role in fixing or improving any problems or faults with the CRD. I have been here since the beginning and have always been a fan of the Liberty...I am now a fan of the Liberty CRD...but...I accept the fact that it has some shortcomings as most vehicles do these days.

Back to normal programming

Johnny Corvette · **Posted:** Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:00 pm

Hey now hey now. I like this forum more when this kind of heated debate comes up. I better not even mention that president Bush prefers a diesel.

My 2 cents - I am a big Jeep fan but, the 3.7L Liberty for its smaller size is too much of a gas hog. I am looking into the FJ Cruiser as well and for the same mileage it looks like a better ride (the price is a little higher of course). The CDR makes the KJ attractive and puts it ahead of the FJ in my mind.

Shopping for KJs

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