Torque converter recall

greiswig · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:03 pm

[quote="BVCRDWhere do you get your info about the F37 being "across the board?" Nothing has been published about late model 2006's being in the recall. I'd like to suggest that the switch to the stouter TC along with the reflash was already done to late model 2006's but I have no proof. We already had the higher shift point into 5th gear. And at least on mine, no bucking or anything tranny related unlike some of the 2005 model with as little as 5000 miles on them.[/quote]

You are right about not recalling every model year, but my statement was made more regarding the fact that for the years recalled, they have not waited until problems were reported, but have instead chosen to recall all vehicles regardless of reported issues. I wish you continued luck with your tranny.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:00 pm

greiswig wrote:

[quote="BVCRDWhere do you get your info about the F37 being "across the board?" Nothing has been published about late model 2006's being in the recall. I'd like to suggest that the switch to the stouter TC along with the reflash was already done to late model 2006's but I have no proof. We already had the higher shift point into 5th gear. And at least on mine, no bucking or anything tranny related unlike some of the 2005 model with as little as 5000 miles on them.

You are right about not recalling every model year, but my statement was made more regarding the fact that for the years recalled, they have not waited until problems were reported, but have instead chosen to recall all vehicles regardless of reported issues. I wish you continued luck with your tranny.[/quote]

Thanks for the well wishes. I hope so too. I think they are trying to head off a problem, that has accured on enough 2005-early 2006 models to get their attention. They sure don't want to replace pumps, trannys on all of them. They tried to stop the ones that were still running from self destrcting. I can understan their reasoning from a business standpoint. I have heard from a few that have had the F37 that in their mind, the flash is acceptable. I don't know because I haven't had mine done. Who knows, maybe it came already done from the factory and I will never miss it because I never got used to it before. It is acceptable to me the way it is right now, done or not.

sbohner · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:25 pm

Talking with the service manager at my dealer, the TC is the same part number. Unless he misspoke, I think the overall objective of the F37 appears to be to getting it through the warranty period by upgrading the pump, replacing the TCs that may have had abuse, and tuning-down the engine to prevent further torque related damage to the inappropriate tranny. I agree with MrMopar64 -- avoid doing F37.

I add based on my previous experience, DO NOT allow your dealer to flash your ECM or TCM for any reason as these will acquire the F37 neutered software. DCX is not publicizing it, but only the latest software will be loaded onto the ECM which automatically includes the ECM from F37. If you want to hear more about this, see the thread called Unapproved Flash after CEL.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:28 pm

sbohner wrote:

Talking with the service manager at my dealer, the TC is the same part number. Unless he misspoke, I think the overall objective of the F37 appears to be to getting it through the warranty period by upgrading the pump, replacing the TCs that may have had abuse, and tuning-down the engine to prevent further torque related damage to the inappropriate tranny. I agree with MrMopar64 -- avoid doing F37.

I add based on my previous experience, DO NOT allow your dealer to flash your ECM or TCM for any reason as these will acquire the F37 neutered software. DCX is not publicizing it, but only the latest software will be loaded onto the ECM which automatically includes the ECM from F37. If you want to hear more about this, see the thread called Unapproved Flash after CEL.

Yea, I've heard it both ways. Better TC, and same same.

greiswig · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:43 pm

sbohner wrote:

Talking with the service manager at my dealer, the TC is the same part number. Unless he misspoke, I think the overall objective of the F37 appears to be to getting it through the warranty period by upgrading the pump, replacing the TCs that may have had abuse, and tuning-down the engine to prevent further torque related damage to the inappropriate tranny. (SNIP)

...except that they don't replace the pump as a matter of course. Only if specific symptoms are replicated right in front of them.

Don't know about whether the TC is the same or not. I think it is possible for a manufacturer to re-use the same #, but have a redesigned part. Not best practices, but I've seen it before.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:55 pm

sbohner wrote:

Talking with the service manager at my dealer, the TC is the same part number. Unless he misspoke, I think the overall objective of the F37 appears to be to getting it through the warranty period by upgrading the pump, replacing the TCs that may have had abuse, and tuning-down the engine to prevent further torque related damage to the inappropriate tranny. I agree with MrMopar64 -- avoid doing F37.

I add based on my previous experience, DO NOT allow your dealer to flash your ECM or TCM for any reason as these will acquire the F37 neutered software. DCX is not publicizing it, but only the latest software will be loaded onto the ECM which automatically includes the ECM from F37. If you want to hear more about this, see the thread called Unapproved Flash after CEL.

Sorry to bump this back up so soon, but you might want to read a Thread over on Jeepforum written by a tech to disputtes your SM claim. It is in the "Is the EGR inour 2006 failing " thread. New-better parts. He should know and probably doesn't have any head games to play. rob has always been right on .http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthre ... 531&page=2

sbohner · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:12 pm

Hi BVCRD,

Thanks for the URL. I took a look at the posting at jeepforum.com and I look forward to seeing the pictures the fellow is going to post. While I do not know him as I do my service manager, I respect his opinion (as I do yours). It would be good if the TCs are indeed improved. I might even consider an F37 if and when it is necessary (but not with the accompanying detuning software). In the mean time (at least until I have tangible evidence of the improvement), I am more inclined towards a diesel hardened after market torque converter.

Some folks have posted that the F37 ECM detuning only effects the shift points and not the overall power range. Since I’m a scientist and engineer, I did a simple experiment with the CRD when they went to return it to me. There is a two mile steep hill on a highway near the dealer and my home. Prior to the flash (over the past 9 months) my CRD traveled up this hill without even downshifting and keeps a 70 MPH at a bit over 2200 RPM. After the flash, both me and my wife tested on the same hill and the CRD couldn’t make it over 65 MPH and there were several oscillations in the gears in overdrive making the RPMs vacillate between 1900 and 3400 RPM.

That being said, the in-town driving was more refined with smoother shifts at higher revs (sort of like the Liberty 3.7L). My initial assessment is that DCX has modified the VM Motori ECM to act more like a gasoline engine rather than making the Chrysler tranny accommodate a diesel. In other words, my torquey diesel has been molded to feel more like a 3.7L (but with no high RPM punch) with all the noise of a diesel and none of the benefits. In my opinion, this is not a good design trade-off and feels more like what MrMopar64 called a “crutch fix.”

This is a matter of persuasion. DCX can certainly win me over if they adopt a more transparent posture. So far, their position has been recalcitrant. Had the flash been necessary and I been given the choice, perhaps I would be more amenable. However, since it was not my choice and they have taken a non-cooperative stance, I must hold my resolve.

boxhead · **Joined:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:14 pm **Posts:** 186

greiswig wrote:

sbohner wrote:

Talking with the service manager at my dealer, the TC is the same part number. Unless he misspoke, I think the overall objective of the F37 appears to be to getting it through the warranty period by upgrading the pump, replacing the TCs that may have had abuse, and tuning-down the engine to prevent further torque related damage to the inappropriate tranny. (SNIP)

...except that they don't replace the pump as a matter of course. Only if specific symptoms are replicated right in front of them.

Don't know about whether the TC is the same or not. I think it is possible for a manufacturer to re-use the same #, but have a redesigned part. Not best practices, but I've seen it before.

My service manager had his tranny guy check something on my Libby, and told me they were replacing the pump. No questions asked.

midwest · **Joined:** Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:03 am **Posts:** 173

sbohner wrote:

Hi BVCRD,

Thanks for the URL. I took a look at the posting at jeepforum.com and I look forward to seeing the pictures the fellow is going to post. While I do not know him as I do my service manager, I respect his opinion (as I do yours). It would be good if the TCs are indeed improved. I might even consider an F37 if and when it is necessary (but not with the accompanying detuning software). In the mean time (at least until I have tangible evidence of the improvement), I am more inclined towards a diesel hardened after market torque converter.

Some folks have posted that the F37 ECM detuning only effects the shift points and not the overall power range. Since I’m a scientist and engineer, I did a simple experiment with the CRD when they went to return it to me. There is a two mile steep hill on a highway near the dealer and my home. Prior to the flash (over the past 9 months) my CRD traveled up this hill without even downshifting and keeps a 70 MPH at a bit over 2200 RPM. After the flash, both me and my wife tested on the same hill and the CRD couldn’t make it over 65 MPH and there were several oscillations in the gears in overdrive making the RPMs vacillate between 1900 and 3400 RPM.

That being said, the in-town driving was more refined with smoother shifts at higher revs (sort of like the Liberty 3.7L). My initial assessment is that DCX has modified the VM Motori ECM to act more like a gasoline engine rather than making the Chrysler tranny accommodate a diesel. In other words, my torquey diesel has been molded to feel more like a 3.7L (but with no high RPM punch) with all the noise of a diesel and none of the benefits. In my opinion, this is not a good design trade-off and feels more like what MrMopar64 called a “crutch fix.”

This is a matter of persuasion. DCX can certainly win me over if they adopt a more transparent posture. So far, their position has been recalcitrant. Had the flash been necessary and I been given the choice, perhaps I would be more amenable. However, since it was not my choice and they have taken a non-cooperative stance, I must hold my resolve.

I don't think there is a highway grade anywhere in the USA that would keep my CRD under 65 mph, and I have had the F37. That just doesn't sound right to me.

Kniggit · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:33 pm

Yea I was going to say something.... I have lugged it up some fairly steep grades at 60 in 5th, and it didn't shift down, is probably about 200yds at roughly 25-30%

K

sbohner · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:36 pm

Hi Midwest,

Perhaps there is something else induced by the visit besides the ECM reprogramming. Do you have any suggestions?

If both my wife and I tried it out, and had the same results, I'm inclined to think that I have a small but reasonable sample set. The climate conditions were reasonable too -- a clear and sunny 40 degrees with some gusts of wind.

Prior to the flash, there was no trouble making it up over the hill. I would like it if my CRD could take any hill like yours can, but since the ECM, it is rather anemic acting. Perhaps your DCX mecahnic can talk to mine... :wink:

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:01 pm

sbohner wrote:

Hi Midwest,

Perhaps there is something else induced by the visit besides the ECM reprogramming. Do you have any suggestions?

If both my wife and I tried it out, and had the same results, I'm inclined to think that I have a small but reasonable sample set. The climate conditions were reasonable too -- a clear and sunny 40 degrees with some gusts of wind.

Prior to the flash, there was no trouble making it up over the hill. I would like it if my CRD could take any hill like yours can, but since the ECM, it is rather anemic acting. Perhaps your DCX mecahnic can talk to mine... :wink:

Try bleeding the air out of the filter. My 06 runs much better after I bleed out the air :lol:

they messed with the engine quite a bit to remove the transmission for the F37 and a line may have been disturbed :idea:

sbohner · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:19 pm

Thanks Joe!

I have just over 12K miles on the CRD and this might help as they have changed out the EGR and control valve recently. In the process, they managed to crunch one of the fuel lines and had to replace it. Perhaps this exacerbated the ECM flashing changes.

You have had a lot of postings. Have you had the F37? I'd be interested in your experience.

hatchetman · **Posted:** Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:41 pm

Is the F37 flash for the tranny done through the port where you check the engine codes? I need/want to have just the F23 ball joint recall and not have any flashing that I didn't need/want done. Thought that I could put a locking device around the port like we have at the plant for tagging out/isolating electrical equipment. :evil:

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:09 am

hatchetman wrote:

Is the F37 flash for the tranny done through the port where you check the engine codes? I need/want to have just the F23 ball joint recall and not have any flashing that I didn't need/want done. Thought that I could put a locking device around the port like we have at the plant for tagging out/isolating electrical equipment. :evil:

Same port

I've thought about a chasity belt :lol:

prairiedog · **Joined:** Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:35 pm **Posts:** 15

I just got put on the waiting list for the TC...and i jus read in another thread that one fella has been on the list for 3 months..Now since there are no TCs avialble at the dealerships what happens when I'm drivin cross country and my Libby TC takes a crap...do i have to wait still? or can i opt to put an aftermarket TC in at a shop and hand the bill to Dalmer?

jakemoore · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:51 pm

prairiedog wrote:

I just got put on the waiting list for the TC...and i jus read in another thread that one fella has been on the list for 3 months..Now since there are no TCs avialble at the dealerships what happens when I'm drivin cross country and my Libby TC takes a crap...do i have to wait still? or can i opt to put an aftermarket TC in at a shop and hand the bill to Dalmer?

Well if you get towed to the dealer through the roadside assistance you are F*&^ed. This happened to me last summer in south texas. My jeep was stranded for weeks in the dealer in Corpus. I had to leave it behind and pick it up months later when I had a chance. Rest assured I will never by another Daimler Chrysler vehicle. You would think a company who makes a car that would break in under 10000 mi they would do every thing possible to make it right.

Jake

Torque converter recall

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