Welder questions...opinions. ..MIG DISCUSSION

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:26 pm

Oz, I'll agree to a point... A lot of people complain that ARC is difficult. (I'm not oe of them as I'll stick weld or MIG just the same) but many people think that getting started with MIG is easier because you're not going to have to worry about the stick sticking to the part when you go to begin welding. The whole coordination of "scratching" the stick, flipping your hood while the weld begins can be difficult.

On the other hand a mig you can line up, flip your hood, pull the trigger and be welding.

Don't get me wrong, I love both types, but given the choice I would (personally) take MIG over stick if those are my only two options. I've been welding for about three years now (not professionally-full time, but I've probably laid over 200 pounds of wire in the past year alone) and still have not completely perfected TIG (agreeing with your first point of TIG being the most difficult... but I think that Jeger said that he TIG welds at work?
-Mark

BCool · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:36 pm

So is gas welding ok or does it not work well to all you experts. Do you use a stick to melt or melt the metal itself?

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:06 pm

Either way. You can use filler metal (which will add material to the weld) or you can use the heat to fuse two pieces together. It's the same concept as TIG welding, but messier and more difficult.

-Mark

OzLtd · **Posted:** Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:37 pm

yeah good points DK but these days most people who weld have and auto tinting mask to keep that spare hand free

I deal with alot of people who professionally weld, boiler makers ect and they all use ARC (stick) A good quality setup doesnt 'stick' to when you arc up, and that I guess also comes down to experience.

Jeger · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:22 am

I learned to weld with a TIG so that is what I am most comfortable and skilled with. Plus you cant beat the versatility of a TIG either. But a decent one is awfully pricey.

Stick welding for me is a bear...I just dont have much experience with it. Plus I dont like chipping slag :lol:

BUT if I was to find one really cheap...I would go for it.

MIG is a cakewalk and is probably what I will end up with due to price and the fact that my wife REALLY hates stick welding and wants to be able to use whatever I get. She could learn to TIG but like I said they are a bit expensive for one that would have the features I am used to and would want. I will just bring all my thin stuff into work to weld I suppose

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:36 pm

OzLtd wrote:

yeah good points DK but these days most people who weld have and auto tinting mask to keep that spare hand free

I deal with alot of people who professionally weld, boiler makers ect and they all use ARC (stick) A good quality setup doesnt 'stick' to when you arc up, and that I guess also comes down to experience.

Who is the major welder manufacturer in Oz?
Here (IMHOP) the two biggies are Miller (blue) and Lincoln(red).
I can't speak for boilermakers, but my one customer repairs the 6" thick crucibles (for molten steel) and they use MIGs with a really high wire speed (they get 200 pound buckets of the stuff.... I'll have to try and get a picture the next time I am out there...

And as far as experience, I'd say that half the time I end up sicking when striking the arc the first time... I don't want to seem like I am contradicting you, I just really enjoy taking about this stuff.... I know.. how about I fly to Oz and we can take up the conversation there :wink:

-Mark

1300ZUK · **Posted:** Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:37 pm

BCool wrote:

So is gas welding ok or does it not work well to all you experts. Do you use a stick to melt or melt the metal itself?

are you talking MIG with Gas, or welding with torches?

Torch welding sucks on thick stuff, warps the crap out of things, isn't very fast, etc. Works great on thinner metel.

I am one of those odd people that will choose Stick over MIG if i have a choice.

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:51 am

1300ZUK wrote:

I am one of those odd people that will choose Stick over MIG if i have a choice.

I wouldn't call you odd, some people are more comfortable with one over another.
-Mark

OzLtd · **Posted:** Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:10 am

1300ZUK wrote:

BCool wrote:

So is gas welding ok or does it not work well to all you experts. Do you use a stick to melt or melt the metal itself?

are you talking MIG with Gas, or welding with torches?

Torch welding sucks on thick stuff, warps the crap out of things, isn't very fast, etc. Works great on thinner metel.

I am one of those odd people that will choose Stick over MIG if i have a choice.

Me too mate, a good ARC weld has better penetration and less chance of pinholes. We use it all the time as we work on welding valves to Hydraulic cylinders ect that have to contain upto 20,000psi (spiked) hydraulic oil pressure.

And in regards to chipping slag, if you're good at it and use the right stuff, there's no such thing as chipping slag - thats for ametures

A good bead of weld will yeild a line of slag that will 'peel up' following your weld. Once you've finished you can just about blow it off.

!!

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:11 pm

I donn't bother chipping slag, I just use the wire wheel on my angle grinder to knock the slag off. It also polished the weld and makes it look nice and shiney. (like fresh cut lead)
-Mark

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:41 am

I am definantly an amature at stick welding then.....my line of slag ends up thicker than the weld :oops:

Maybe there is filler material that is better quality than what I used?

Anyhow, I looked at the welders at Harbor Freight and was completely unimpressed. I am calling the owner of weiler welding today to ask about the rental units they will sell from time to time. Specifically a Lincoln Mig 175+ should be good for single pass welds on 1/4" stock. Unfortunatly they just sold most of their old rental fleet, so the pickings are pretty slim.

I also picked up some heavy gauge TIG filler wire to use here at the shop.

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:38 am

Jeger, if you are willing to expand your search, check out http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/

They literally sell everything, and quite often have welders in stock. The prices can be negotiable, and their stock is ALWAYS changing.

If you come up this way to make a purchase, make sure we have some sort of jeep-a-thon. There are at least three others in NE ohio.
-Mark

tuljeepster · **Joined:** Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:36 pm **Posts:** 7

I have a wire feed Lincoln welder that weighs in at a bit shy of 50lbs. It has 2 heat ranges, fine and corse heat adjusment and a wire speed adjustment. Came with face shield, spool of wire and chipping hammer. It was just under 200.00 from Home Depot. Great little welder too bad I am not better at using it :cry:

Jeger · **Posted:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:41 pm

So I have been doing a bit of research. I dont know if I should save some money and get a 110 volt model

Hobart handler 140 $450 ish
Lincoln SP 135 $450 ish
Lincoln Mig 140T $550

Or a 220 volt model
Hobart Handler 187 (i like this one...has seven amperage selections) $650 ish
Lincoln SP 175 $800
Lincoln 180 $650

Prices are best I could find online

I like the portability aspect of the 110 volt models...you might not have 220 available everywhere. But I am afraid I might want the extra power of the 220 models and regret it if I buy the smaller one.

I also looked at the clarke 180 EN but once I found that the gun is hardwired and the wire feed motor is considered a wear item I scratched it off the list. Millers are nice but $$$ I would go for a stick welder and just force myself to learn that better, but I want to be able to do aluminum if I wanted to. I think I will just save up and get the Hobart 187, unless I find a good deal on something used.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Has anyone looked at the underhood welders? - something like

http://www.premierpowerwelder.com/index2.html

they're always in the magazines and look interesting - it's on my long term build up list
(although I have to add welding lessons in there also)

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:00 pm

I thinkk that they are in the $800 range... for trailside repairs it would probably be great, but I can't see the worth of burning out an alternator to fabricate rock sliders....

Cool design IMHOP, limited uses.
-Mark

Hauntedyards · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:23 pm

I own a Hobart Handler 140 and it's great for everyday jobs. If you are planning on doing any frame work or trailer type work then I would go with a 220volt MIG since you'll get alot more penetration and frankly they are easier to weld with... Almost impossible not to lay a good bead with a 220v thats dialed in right.

But again... for anything upto and just beyond 1/8" a good 110volt MIG is fine... Keep in mind if it is a flux core welder or doesn't use the gas... technically it's not MIG welding...

TIG is great if you have the $$ and the talent.. personally there is too much going on there for me... it feels more like using a sewing machine than welding... as soon as I have to use both hands AND a foot...I'm out! hehe

MIG welding is as difficult as using a glue gun and will make beautiful and strong welds with no more than a day of practice and some motivation.

Jeff

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:02 pm

Hauntedyards wrote:

But again... for anything upto and just beyond 1/8" a good 110volt MIG is fine... Keep in mind if it is a flux core welder or doesn't use the gas... technically it's not MIG welding...

I think that the technical term is wire feed or something like that right?

LiLredLibby · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:46 pm

Donkeykong wrote:

Hauntedyards wrote:

But again... for anything upto and just beyond 1/8" a good 110volt MIG is fine... Keep in mind if it is a flux core welder or doesn't use the gas... technically it's not MIG welding...

I think that the technical term is wire feed or something like that right?

They are both actually "Wire Fed welders". One has flux in the wire so you don't need Argon,and the other uses solid wire within a gas jacket.But he's right technicaly,It's not MIG welding unless you add the Argon Gas.

Ron

Kniggit · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:56 pm

you could skimp and use Co2 if you're not doing aluminum....

K

Welder questions...opinions. ..MIG DISCUSSION

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