Looks Like it is Starting for Heavy-Duty Fords...

Reg#43897 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:49 pm

***************************************
Recall: 2007099
FORD - 07S49
Date: Mar 27, 2007
Vehicles: 4,353

On certain trucks equipped with 6.4L diesel engines, excessive temperatures in the diesel particulate filter may cause a visible flame out the tailpipe. Excessively hot exhaust or flames emitting from the tailpipe, in the presence of combustible material, may result in a fire, or may result in personal injury if a person is in close proximity to the tailpipe. Correction: Dealers will reprogram the power-train control module.

Models Involved
2008 FORD F250
2008 FORD F350
2008 FORD F450
2008 FORD F550
**********************

Now that's a FAST recall. Anybody sure that they would want a PM filter stuck into their exhaust? As well, note the "fix". I seem to have seen that somewhere else... Oh yeah, my wife's CRD!

John.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:43 pm

There's another thread on this from a couple weeks back, had a link to a video of what one looked like when this happened. Looked like a double barreled acetylene torch set on high, bluish orange flame that looked to be close to a foot long, and you could see water boiling off the pavement underneath.

And it seems they did take a page from DC's book on the recall. It reprograms the ECM to put the truck in limp mode and make the driver pull off the road if it senses that PM filter temps are too high (ie flame out the tailpipe) and wait until it cools down.

As the ditty went on the old commercial, "Oh, I'm stuck on Band-Aid, cause Band-Aid's stuck on me!" :lol:

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

retmil46 wrote:

There's another thread on this from a couple weeks back, had a link to a video of what one looked like when this happened. Looked like a double barreled acetylene torch set on high, bluish orange flame that looked to be close to a foot long, and you could see water boiling off the pavement underneath.

And it seems they did take a page from DC's book on the recall. It reprograms the ECM to put the truck in limp mode and make the driver pull off the road if it senses that PM filter temps are too high (ie flame out the tailpipe) and wait until it cools down.

As the ditty went on the old commercial, "Oh, I'm stuck on Band-Aid, cause Band-Aid's stuck on me!" :lol:

If it were not for the limp mode, I would like this feature... but enhanced. Throwing three to four foot flames out the rear end is a great way to stop tailgaters! Can't wait for those zippy lane weavers in their Japanese vehicle to cut behind me now! Just give their bumper a little touch up!

Maybe not on the CRD though-- DC runs the exhaust right next to the plastic fuel tank-- so It would probably just melt the tank... and KABOOM!

europachris · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:39 am

Volkswagen is going to be using DPF on the upcoming '08MY vehicles coming to the US, and DCX uses the VW 2.0L diesel in the Caliber, Compass and Patriot for export-only markets. These will also be getting the DPF engine for '08.

The DPF engine has an 02 sensor, a pressure sensor (to detect pressure drop across the filter) and THREE temperature sensors - one on the exhaust manifold before the turbo, and two on the DPF cannister (input and output). I was told the cannister will hit 500C :shock:

when it lights off and you have to be driving above 50mph before it will go into burnoff mode.

So what happens to the little old lady that never goes on the highway? Will the cannister clog solid? What happens when that little old lady finally gets on the highway? Will she end up with a car-b-que? A flaming torch running down the road? Plus, there will be more under hood heat to cook all the hoses and wiring in the engine compartment and back pressure on the turbo.

Chris

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:21 am

DPF regeneration is usually at 600 degC as the target temp, fluctuations are usually kept to <50degC.

Regen can happen anywhere, not just on the highway. On highway is the best and shortest duration, but it can happen in the city, sitting at a red light, etc. etc. The little old lady in town won't have a problem with it.

Back pressure on the turbo isn't usually an issue. These components are usually very high flow and the turbos specially designed for the increased restriction (seal/bearing design). The proper use of heat shields around the manifold usually negate the heat increase during operation.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:00 am

I would rather have a non regenerating PM filter with a pre and post pressure check guage. Just replace when back pressure hits a certain point or develope one that could be manually cleaned periodically.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 am

MrMopar64 wrote:

Back pressure on the turbo isn't usually an issue. These components are usually very high flow and the turbos specially designed for the increased restriction (seal/bearing design).

Apparently, from the number of turbo failures we're seeing, that doesn't seem to be the case with our particular turbo.

That's one thing I'm watching with the ORM, how it affects oil useage and leakage from the turbo seals. In the 6000 miles prior to the ORM, mine had started using at least 1/2 quart per 3000 miles. And it was showing up in two places - in the inlet hose to the intercooler, and in the intake manifold just downstream of the FCV (via the EGR valve).

So far, 530 miles since changing oil with the ORM in effect, no noticeable oil useage. Probably still too early to make a judgement, but I wouldn't be surprised if minimizing the pressure fluctuations across the turbo via the ORM and other means goes a ways towards curing oil leakage and seal failure.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

So far, 530 miles since changing oil with the ORM in effect, no noticeable oil useage. Probably still too early to make a judgement, but I wouldn't be surprised if minimizing the pressure fluctuations across the turbo via the ORM and other means goes a ways towards curing oil leakage and seal failure.

Coming up nearly at 500 miles since the ORM myself. I've been checking and cleaning the CAC hoses and AFC valve routinely twice a month - even with the Provent capturing quite a bit of oil, the CAC hoses are still quite oily. It ebbs and flows - sometimes its dry black oil residue, then, just when you think its stopped, it shows up again, a good coat of fresh black oil along the entire length on the turbo side, right up through to the intercooler, and heavy stripes to nearly solid black on the intake side, with oil coated afc valve to boot. This is with the oil level halfway between MAX and LOW on the dipstick, Mobile 1 5W-40 TDT CI4 diesel rated oil.

Since the ORM ~ 500 miles ago, I have only seen a very, very light residual coating - as you say, too early to tell, but encouraging at this point. I would be very happy if the ORM kept the CAC oil down to a light coating.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:32 pm

I wonder if problem is from people running LSD?

I watched a guy two days ago putting LSD in his new Ford, and I ask him why he bought the 06 PS instead of a 07 model. He told me it was an 07 model and that he was really likeing it so far, but this was just the second fill up so jury was still out. I asked him why he was putting the LSD fuel in it if it was an 07 and he said they told him he could run on either ULSD OR LSD so he was buying the cheaper fuel. I didn't attempt to explain the problem he was headed for as he seemed to be the I know it all type.

06altacrd · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:32 am

The 07 models are still using the 6.0L, the 6.4L, which is having the problem, is the 08 model. No particulate filter on the 6.0

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:42 am

06altacrd wrote:

The 07 models are still using the 6.0L, the 6.4L, which is having the problem, is the 08 model. No particulate filter on the 6.0

Ok, he may have been ok then with LSD. But it still leaves the average person who doesn't know that much about the fuel difference to use the wrong fuel. There is no fuel nozzle restrictions as when we switched over to unleaded gas in the seventies. It has amazed me in the last 6 or 8 months how many men driving diesels have no clue as to what cetane is or even knows the difference in ULSD & LSD and we won't even go into biofuels.

I was talking to a guy yesterday morning at the Dodge dealer who had his Cummins in for a loss of power, he 5th wheels for a living. He was totaly clueless about the different fuels available and thought biodiesel was ethanol based like E85 gasoline. That is the scarry part about the diesel industry in general, because I have gotten the same kind of answers from OTR truckers when I talked with them over the time period, most even thought that biofuel was bad for the trucks and cause major break downs. They have heard rumors of fuel system failures when guys fueled in biofuel state, they had no glue that it was caused by the biofuel just cleaning the crud from the fuel system.

06altacrd · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:35 am

Just as a point of interest, here in Canada, northern Alberta to be exact, I have yet to see ULSD anywhere, at least haven't seen any labeled as such. However, my gf works in the service department at a Ford dealership which lives off truck sales, and they have not even heard of the flamethrower problem yet. Keep in mind that this is in a town where diesel trucks outnumber all other vehicles on probably a 3:1 basis, and most are putting on a lot of miles. Kinda makes me think that LSD may not have anything to do with it at all, as they seem to be doing fine here.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:50 am

06altacrd wrote:

Just as a point of interest, here in Canada, northern Alberta to be exact, I have yet to see ULSD anywhere, at least haven't seen any labeled as such. However, my gf works in the service department at a Ford dealership which lives off truck sales, and they have not even heard of the flamethrower problem yet. Keep in mind that this is in a town where diesel trucks outnumber all other vehicles on probably a 3:1 basis, and most are putting on a lot of miles. Kinda makes me think that LSD may not have anything to do with it at all, as they seem to be doing fine here.

I would say that is good news if there are particulate trap equipped trucks running LSD on a regular basis w/o the flame thrower effect.

06altacrd · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:27 am

I do know of one 08 here that was sort of a test model, the guy ran it all thru winter, and it was being serviced at the dealership where the woman works, she said there was no problem at all. I also find it interesting the recall is for 4353 trucks, I would have thought there would be more on the road by now.

I'll be curious to see how the particulate filter does on the new Cummins as well.

Reg#43897 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:02 pm

06altacrd wrote:

Just as a point of interest, here in Canada, northern Alberta to be exact, I have yet to see ULSD anywhere, at least haven't seen any labeled as such. However, my gf works in the service department at a Ford dealership which lives off truck sales, and they have not even heard of the flamethrower problem yet. Keep in mind that this is in a town where diesel trucks outnumber all other vehicles on probably a 3:1 basis, and most are putting on a lot of miles. Kinda makes me think that LSD may not have anything to do with it at all, as they seem to be doing fine here.

I would expect that ALL of the fuel in your province has already been switched over to ULSD. It was required in New Brunswick a long time ago. There was no public advisement campaign - it was simply DONE. The only way that you are gonna get anything other than ULSD is to get some furnace oil or off-road #2.

John.

Reg#43897 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:03 pm

06altacrd wrote:

I do know of one 08 here that was sort of a test model, the guy ran it all thru winter, and it was being serviced at the dealership where the woman works, she said there was no problem at all. I also find it interesting the recall is for 4353 trucks, I would have thought there would be more on the road by now.

I'll be curious to see how the particulate filter does on the new Cummins as well.

It's Transport Canada recall - hence the numbers.

John.

06altacrd · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:20 pm

I stand corrected, as of June 06, all on-road diesel in Canada has been ULSD, LSD is no longer available. Talked to one of the local bulk stations, Petro-Canada, he told me that even the dyed off-road diesel is ULSD most place, with a couple hold outs still using LSD for dyed. He also said the reason there are no stickers saying which is which is because LSD does not exist here anymore, so they never bothered with labelling.

I guess LSD just may be the problem.

Reg#43897 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:31 pm

Ah, okay. You must be right, then. No stickers here for #2. You get whatever the Irving refinery puts out regardless of distributor.

John.

06altacrd · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:34 pm

Just edited my post above, found some good info.

jonown88 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:22 am **Posts:** 1

oldnavy wrote:

06altacrd wrote:

The 07 models are still using the 6.0L, the 6.4L, which is having the problem, is the 08 model. No particulate filter on the 6.0

Ok, he may have been ok then with LSD. But it still leaves the average person who doesn't know that much about the fuel difference to use the wrong fuel. There is no fuel nozzle restrictions as when we switched over to unleaded gas in the seventies. It has amazed me in the last 6 or 8 months how many men driving diesels have no clue as to what cetane is or even knows the difference in ULSD & LSD and we won't even go into biofuels.

I was talking to a guy yesterday morning at the Dodge dealer who had his Cummins in for a loss of power, he 5th wheels for a living. He was totaly clueless about the different fuels available and thought biodiesel was ethanol based like E85 gasoline. That is the scarry part about the diesel industry in general, because I have gotten the same kind of answers from OTR truckers when I talked with them over the time period, most even thought that biofuel was bad for the trucks and cause major break downs. They have heard rumors of fuel system failures when guys fueled in biofuel state, they had no glue that it was caused by the biofuel just cleaning the crud from the fuel system.

thanks to define further more about model 7 & 8 :google:

heavy duty cleaners

Looks Like it is Starting for Heavy-Duty Fords...

Who is online