Never Change your Automatic Transmission Fluid !

JohnnyCash · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 2:21 am

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070501/COL14/705010379/1095

The article above written in May 2007 quotes Daniel Black, Chrysler senior manager of automatic transmission engineering.
The article is about a bungled transmission fluid change on a 2001 Dodge Voyager Minivan.

A Madison Heights oil-change shop sold her a transmission fluid change that is almost never necessary, experts say.
"For customers, it's basically throwing your money away," said Daniel Black, Chrysler senior manager of automatic transmission engineering.

Black says, "We don't recommend a" transmission fluid "change in the life of the vehicle," Black said. "The risks are leaks, putting the wrong fluid in, over-filling or under-filling."
"Chrysler makes its own transmissions, and its minivans routinely cover 150,000 miles in service as Las Vegas taxis without a transmission fluid change, Black said".
"They're our toughest customers," because of constant stop-and-go driving and 24-hour-a-day operation in the blazing desert heat, he said.

What's up with that? The Liberty has a minivan transmission. I'm never changing the fluid. Daniel Black says it's ok !

q50055 · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 6:24 am

I tend to agree as long as you haven't burnt the fuild it is not worth changing. That said my 2002 has had a trans flush twice: 78K miles with 30K of those towing a 3000 lbs trailer. My 2002 minivan has 40K miles - I will not be changing.

k99jk99j · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 7:36 am

if you want to believe that propaganda than don't change your underwear either. you are throwing money away on laundry. i do agree you need a competent shop with atf +4. mike

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 7:44 am

Keeping the fluid filters clean and the fluid fresh helps to remove debris and control heat. Both of these things increase the life of the soft clutch materials inside an automatic transmission. So in theory if the fluid always looked spotless there might be a case for not changing your transmission fluid but how can you see what is inside the filters?

I believe in preventitive maintence because later on down the line, my transmission will need work - but I'd like to believe that the repair bill will be smaller if I keep the internal parts clean.

Jeger · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 8:23 am

I have seen auto transmissions go 200K plus with only one fluid and filter change. I dont recommend that but it can happen, and probably does happen often.

FreeJeep · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 8:43 am

I had no problem with my tranny for 70k miles with no fluid changes. Changed the fluid just before Moab and by the time I got home, it was spitting codes left and right, going into limp mode and required a 2k rebuild.

Guess I should have left well enough alone.

ccattie · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 9:22 am

I usually don't do a flush with my cars but a pan drop and filter change.
-c

Guest · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 9:32 am

JohnnyCash wrote:

"Chrysler makes its own transmissions... I'm never changing the fluid. Daniel Black says it's ok !

Chrysler also sells it's own transmissions, and it's dealership network rebuilds transmissions with Chrysler parts

. My other car is a 1994 BMW 740i, It has a "lifetime fill" transmission. It doesn't have a dipstick or a way to put new fluid in without special tools. It uses special synthetic fluid that runs $30 per quart. I'm a participant on 2 web sites for that car, & everyone who doesn't figure out that "lifetime" means the average time the original owner has the car, about 100,000 miles, replaces their bad transmission somewhere between 120K & 150K. Even with that fluid, the BMW should be changed every 100K.

Mopar will have to be happy getting my money from the sale of ATF+4 every 30K, rather than a new transmission every 150K.

If you do take it somewhere to get it changed, don't go to a quick lube place. The RTF for the pan gasket costs more than those kids make in an hour, do you think they are qualified?!?! :shock:

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 9:50 am

200K on my Taurus and the transmission was never touched. It performed flawlessly. I tow with my pickup and change the fluid regularly.

Maximum Carnage · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 9:57 am

I actually did a transmission fluid flush at around 60K on the Liberty. Currently at 90K and have had no problems (knock on wood). I actually don’t plan to do anymore tranny fluid changes.
I had a Saleen and I only did one tranny fluid change and I sold it with 245K and again no problems. The Montero I owned I did the same thing one tranny fluid change and that’s that.

JohnnyCash · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 1:04 pm

For some reason I had it stuck in my head that you had to have the tranny fluid changed every 12,000 miles. :shock:

Checked the manual this morning and it's 60,000 miles for severe service.
That sounds a little better !!!
Idiot !!!!!

Guest · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 1:20 pm

Hmmm... I wonder why that is in the manual? 60,000 miles instead of never? :roll:

JohnnyCash · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 1:35 pm

There should be an equation somewhere:
Each tranny fluid change increases the chances of the dealership screwing it up,
but the older the tranny fluid gets the less it protects the tranny,
but the tranny can't protect itself from the dealer techs,
therefore you should change your tranny fluid every xxx miles to balance the odds between dealer screw-up and worn-out fluid.
Maybe this is how they arrived at the 60,000 mile interval. Who knows?
The equation could change completely if it's a 5-star dealership vs a non-5-star dealership.

hooperswish · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 3:24 pm

Change it every 2 years and you will have no problems. I know this sounds excessive, but if a good shop does the flush, you are looking at 200k. (I own the manual, but I also drive an '06 town and country).
Also, please keep that underwear changes as well. I can smell those skid stains all the way over here. :oops:

chefdab · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 6:42 pm

I had the fluid flushed on my Liberty at 30,000 miles. It was done at a local Firestone dealer. They made a point to take into the shop and show me the fluid. It was definitely burnt. I had a slight engine overheating problem just prior to the fluid change though. (Bad fan.) Six months later the Liberty was totaled. But if not for the accident, I would have changed it again at 60k. I would definitely recommend the fluid change. I think it was a good thing to do. I'll be changing the fluid on my Wrangler at the 30k mark as well. Especially since both have been wheeled hard.

LiLredLibby · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 7:52 pm

Next time your hands get really cruddy from working on your vehicle,like a brake job or something,pour a little atf on your hands and rub them around for a couple of minutes.After rubbing a little while,wipe with a clean cloth,take a look at your hands,probably cleaner than the best hand cleaner you've ever bought.This is what it does to your tranny inside.ATF is very high in detergent at full strength,but once it breaks down it's not as hard on band material.I think it's a can't win situation......dirt is hard on your tranny,but new fluid may be even harder on it. :roll:

Ron

JohnnyCash · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 8:06 pm

LiLredLibby wrote:

Next time your hands get really cruddy from working on your vehicle,like a brake job or something,pour a little atf on your hands and rub them around for a couple of minutes.After rubbing a little while,wipe with a clean cloth,take a look at your hands,probably cleaner than the best hand cleaner you've ever bought.This is what it does to your tranny inside.ATF is very high in detergent at full strength,but once it breaks down it's not as hard on band material.I think it's a can't win situation......dirt is hard on your tranny,but new fluid may be even harder on it. :roll:

Ron

Very interesting.
So...............what have you done or are you going to do with your's?
Have you already changed it, going to change it, or will you not change it at all?

LiLredLibby · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 9:02 pm

JohnnyCash wrote:

LiLredLibby wrote:

Next time your hands get really cruddy from working on your vehicle,like a brake job or something,pour a little atf on your hands and rub them around for a couple of minutes.After rubbing a little while,wipe with a clean cloth,take a look at your hands,probably cleaner than the best hand cleaner you've ever bought.This is what it does to your tranny inside.ATF is very high in detergent at full strength,but once it breaks down it's not as hard on band material.I think it's a can't win situation......dirt is hard on your tranny,but new fluid may be even harder on it. :roll:

Ron

Very interesting.
So...............what have you done or are you going to do with your's?
Have you already changed it, going to change it, or will you not change it at all?

If I buy a vehicle new,or with very low mileage,the first thing I do is hook up to our flush machine at work and swap the coventional fluid for synthetic.I feel that the sny.fluid can protect from normal friction wear for the normal life of the transmission.Now this is taking into acount that you don't abuse the vehicle.I feel that by this time,you've probably used up all of the clutch material that your going to and theres really nothing left to filter.In other words..I think that if you do a filter change,and the filter is actually full of clutch material(not dirt cause there's no real way for "dirt"to get into a sealed system)that transmission should be about done.In the 25 years of servicing transmissions for a living,most failures I've seen happen shortly after a fluid change,usually with high mileage,and already at the end of their life cycle anyway.Having said that...these are just my experiences......and this is just "what blows my dress up". :lol:

Ron

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 9:05 pm

The ATF+4 in our trannies is synthetic already.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2007 9:22 pm

'I' will drop the pan on my tranny and change the oil in it every 30k. I will also install the shift kit for the 42rle at 30k when I do my first oil change. Ill be using Amsoil to fill the pan back up.

Weve dropped the pan in our 94 grand cherokee which has the 42re tranny. Everyone always said that tranny doesnt last and how its not good for towing. That jeep has 160k on it and its towed a 2500lb boat in the hills of ky its entire life. We bought it new in 1994. Never had a problem outta it.

Never Change your Automatic Transmission Fluid !

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