wife traded her liberty in

lucas/liberty · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:23 pm

well the wife traded her 02 liberty for an RX330 Lexus...i will still be stopping by from time to time.

David Jr · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:25 pm

You have my deepest sympathies

.

csukoh78 · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:34 pm **Posts:** 501

ugh.......Im sure its mechanically perfect and aerodynamically fluid and structurally very sound, blah blah blah, but Lexus (pl. Lexi) just seems cold, isolated, passionless, soulless car. Like short grim-faced pale grey lab imprisoned automotons designed it and put it together at the hum of machinery and mechanical whirring.

Don't believe me? Watch people in their Lexi. Almost all of them are angry, embittered, drab, deadpan, cold, robotic, or otherwise dead-like. No amount of mechanical precision can make you love a car.

There is a heart and soul put into certain cars, or that their owners bestow upon them, that create personalities for the vehicle, the Libby being one of them. No one raves about a Lexus. No child 15 years from now have his heart set on restoring his father's Lexus. It's safe. It's dependable. It's boring.

Now an Audi Quattro A4, or BMW M3, or Vette...they all have soul. They growl and have their quirks and are somewhat perfect, unlike the Lexus.

And all the better for it.

Sorry to rant. Just my $0.02. I see Lexus as merely a sign of the times. I'll take my "crane around and hope nothing is behind me", thank you very much. With that, let me get a side of steel bumpers and blindspots. Hold the airbags, don't want to spill my milkshake. Also, can I get a chili on that hotdog and fries? I know its safe for my heart to eat carrots, but....well.....carrots don't taste like chili dogs do they. Hold the sunblock too. Cancer never hurt anybody.

As people become soulless, so do the decisions they make. Judges awarding idiots money because the word of the law says so. It's safe. Don't show boobs on TV, that might turn children into deviants. Make it safe. Safe, safe, safe, safe, safe,safe, safe. Put cameras in the back, make it safe. Install 15 airbags. Make it safe. Have GPS so I don't get lost. Make it safe. Put on plastic bumpers for pedestrians. Make is safe. Have automatic parallel park, because you are too incompetent to do it yourself. Make it safe. Ban books and remove art from Museums. Make it safe. Install cameras that ruin our freedom. Feel safe. Cavity search grandmothers at airports. Feel safe. Remove anything that stirs the soul. Make life safe.

No passion at all, no danger, no risk, no LIFE. You know what? I want my kids NOT to wear helmets when they ride a bike. I didn't...I was more careful. I don't want my kids to wear knee and elbow pads, because skinned knees taught you pain and how to deal with it. I want boobs and guns and profanity and gore and violence. Because the world is not a pretty, safe place. It is painful and dirty and violent, and if we teach our kids to ignore the worst parts of us, then we teach them also to ignore the most beautiful things in us. How can you possibly appreciate something in the absence of its opposite???

Because if we don't expose ourself to danger and step out of the extremely safe every now and then, we degrade as a society. We become safe.

And our children will hate us for it.

spencevans · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:25 pm

The best auto I ever owned was a Lexus. It also just happened to be the best offroader too. I loved my LX450. It had front and rear lockers, 3 link solid axle on coils in the front and 4 link on coils in the rear. Man I loved that thing. My wife just started her new job today and the first thing we are going to buy is another LX450. This time I will try to keep the wheels between me and the ground.

If you are looking for an amazing offroader that is daily driver. This is where to begin. They are more capable than the Rubicons.

chefdab · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:35 pm

csukoh : If there wasn't a character limit for a signature line, I would quote you on that. Amen brother.

Donnie · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:52 pm

csukoh78 wrote:

ugh.......Im sure its mechanically perfect and aerodynamically fluid and structurally very sound, blah blah blah, but Lexus (pl. Lexi) just seems cold, isolated, passionless, soulless car. Like short grim-faced pale grey lab imprisoned automotons designed it and put it together at the hum of machinery and mechanical whirring.

Don't believe me? Watch people in their Lexi. Almost all of them are angry, embittered, drab, deadpan, cold, robotic, or otherwise dead-like. No amount of mechanical precision can make you love a car.

There is a heart and soul put into certain cars, or that their owners bestow upon them, that create personalities for the vehicle, the Libby being one of them. No one raves about a Lexus. No child 15 years from now have his heart set on restoring his father's Lexus. It's safe. It's dependable. It's boring.

Now an Audi Quattro A4, or BMW M3, or Vette...they all have soul. They growl and have their quirks and are somewhat perfect, unlike the Lexus.

And all the better for it.

Sorry to rant. Just my $0.02. I see Lexus as merely a sign of the times. I'll take my "crane around and hope nothing is behind me", thank you very much. With that, let me get a side of steel bumpers and blindspots. Hold the airbags, don't want to spill my milkshake. Also, can I get a chili on that hotdog and fries? I know its safe for my heart to eat carrots, but....well.....carrots don't taste like chili dogs do they. Hold the sunblock too. Cancer never hurt anybody.

As people become soulless, so do the decisions they make. Judges awarding idiots money because the word of the law says so. It's safe. Don't show boobs on TV, that might turn children into deviants. Make it safe. Safe, safe, safe, safe, safe,safe, safe. Put cameras in the back, make it safe. Install 15 airbags. Make it safe. Have GPS so I don't get lost. Make it safe. Put on plastic bumpers for pedestrians. Make is safe. Have automatic parallel park, because you are too incompetent to do it yourself. Make it safe. Ban books and remove art from Museums. Make it safe. Install cameras that ruin our freedom. Feel safe. Cavity search grandmothers at airports. Feel safe. Remove anything that stirs the soul. Make life safe.

No passion at all, no danger, no risk, no LIFE. You know what? I want my kids NOT to wear helmets when they ride a bike. I didn't...I was more careful. I don't want my kids to wear knee and elbow pads, because skinned knees taught you pain and how to deal with it. I want boobs and guns and profanity and gore and violence. Because the world is not a pretty, safe place. It is painful and dirty and violent, and if we teach our kids to ignore the worst parts of us, then we teach them also to ignore the most beautiful things in us. How can you possibly appreciate something in the absence of its opposite???

Because if we don't expose ourself to danger and step out of the extremely safe every now and then, we degrade as a society. We become safe.

And our children will hate us for it.

Your obvious biased nature makes your post worthless. Lets face it, jeep liberty doesn't scream character. Be real, the lexus is a much better made car than our jeeps. Just because we own one doesn't mean we have to be like all other bloat headed forum others and disaffirm superiority. Think as Lexus of refined, powerful, and classy rather than bland. Working in a fortune 100 mutual insurance agency, some people are fortunate enough to learn that standing out isn't always a good thing. So, go ahead and show off what you think has characters, get all the attention you would like, while the subtle superiors realize your foolish acts.

When I think of this 270 horse AWD sports car, made by you guessed it...Lexus, the word safety is non-existant.

P.S. Keep showing your kids standing out is best. I'd love to see another generation of attention whores.

desertkj · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:24 pm **Posts:** 677

Donnie wrote:

csukoh78 wrote:

ugh.......Im sure its mechanically perfect and aerodynamically fluid and structurally very sound, blah blah blah, but Lexus (pl. Lexi) just seems cold, isolated, passionless, soulless car. Like short grim-faced pale grey lab imprisoned automotons designed it and put it together at the hum of machinery and mechanical whirring.

Don't believe me? Watch people in their Lexi. Almost all of them are angry, embittered, drab, deadpan, cold, robotic, or otherwise dead-like. No amount of mechanical precision can make you love a car.

There is a heart and soul put into certain cars, or that their owners bestow upon them, that create personalities for the vehicle, the Libby being one of them. No one raves about a Lexus. No child 15 years from now have his heart set on restoring his father's Lexus. It's safe. It's dependable. It's boring.

Now an Audi Quattro A4, or BMW M3, or Vette...they all have soul. They growl and have their quirks and are somewhat perfect, unlike the Lexus.

And all the better for it.

Sorry to rant. Just my $0.02. I see Lexus as merely a sign of the times. I'll take my "crane around and hope nothing is behind me", thank you very much. With that, let me get a side of steel bumpers and blindspots. Hold the airbags, don't want to spill my milkshake. Also, can I get a chili on that hotdog and fries? I know its safe for my heart to eat carrots, but....well.....carrots don't taste like chili dogs do they. Hold the sunblock too. Cancer never hurt anybody.

As people become soulless, so do the decisions they make. Judges awarding idiots money because the word of the law says so. It's safe. Don't show boobs on TV, that might turn children into deviants. Make it safe. Safe, safe, safe, safe, safe,safe, safe. Put cameras in the back, make it safe. Install 15 airbags. Make it safe. Have GPS so I don't get lost. Make it safe. Put on plastic bumpers for pedestrians. Make is safe. Have automatic parallel park, because you are too incompetent to do it yourself. Make it safe. Ban books and remove art from Museums. Make it safe. Install cameras that ruin our freedom. Feel safe. Cavity search grandmothers at airports. Feel safe. Remove anything that stirs the soul. Make life safe.

No passion at all, no danger, no risk, no LIFE. You know what? I want my kids NOT to wear helmets when they ride a bike. I didn't...I was more careful. I don't want my kids to wear knee and elbow pads, because skinned knees taught you pain and how to deal with it. I want boobs and guns and profanity and gore and violence. Because the world is not a pretty, safe place. It is painful and dirty and violent, and if we teach our kids to ignore the worst parts of us, then we teach them also to ignore the most beautiful things in us. How can you possibly appreciate something in the absence of its opposite???

Because if we don't expose ourself to danger and step out of the extremely safe every now and then, we degrade as a society. We become safe.

And our children will hate us for it.

Your obvious biased nature makes your post worthless. Lets face it, jeep liberty doesn't scream character. Be real, the lexus is a much better made car than our jeeps. Just because we own one doesn't mean we have to be like all other bloat headed forum others and disaffirm superiority. Think as Lexus of refined, powerful, and classy rather than bland. Working in a fortune 100 mutual insurance agency, some people are fortunate enough to learn that standing out isn't always a good thing. So, go ahead and show off what you think has characters, get all the attention you would like, while the subtle superiors realize your foolish acts.

When I think of this 270 horse AWD sports car, made by you guessed it...Lexus, the word safety is non-existant.

P.S. Keep showing your kids standing out is best. I'd love to see another generation of attention whores.

I think csukoh78 is entitled to his own opinion. In my opinion, Lexus is more of an "attention whore" than a Jeep, You are spending at least $5K more for a rebadged Toyota so that you can fit in with the Fortune 100 crew as you so blatantly stated. I'm going to agree, Lexus has no soul. The only thing they are good for is being valet parked and waxed. Jeep has a history dating back to WWII and is an American Icon, while no one could remember the heritage of Lexus.

Donnie · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:21 pm

desertkj wrote:

Donnie wrote:

csukoh78 wrote:

ugh.......Im sure its mechanically perfect and aerodynamically fluid and structurally very sound, blah blah blah, but Lexus (pl. Lexi) just seems cold, isolated, passionless, soulless car. Like short grim-faced pale grey lab imprisoned automotons designed it and put it together at the hum of machinery and mechanical whirring.

Don't believe me? Watch people in their Lexi. Almost all of them are angry, embittered, drab, deadpan, cold, robotic, or otherwise dead-like. No amount of mechanical precision can make you love a car.

There is a heart and soul put into certain cars, or that their owners bestow upon them, that create personalities for the vehicle, the Libby being one of them. No one raves about a Lexus. No child 15 years from now have his heart set on restoring his father's Lexus. It's safe. It's dependable. It's boring.

Now an Audi Quattro A4, or BMW M3, or Vette...they all have soul. They growl and have their quirks and are somewhat perfect, unlike the Lexus.

And all the better for it.

Sorry to rant. Just my $0.02. I see Lexus as merely a sign of the times. I'll take my "crane around and hope nothing is behind me", thank you very much. With that, let me get a side of steel bumpers and blindspots. Hold the airbags, don't want to spill my milkshake. Also, can I get a chili on that hotdog and fries? I know its safe for my heart to eat carrots, but....well.....carrots don't taste like chili dogs do they. Hold the sunblock too. Cancer never hurt anybody.

As people become soulless, so do the decisions they make. Judges awarding idiots money because the word of the law says so. It's safe. Don't show boobs on TV, that might turn children into deviants. Make it safe. Safe, safe, safe, safe, safe,safe, safe. Put cameras in the back, make it safe. Install 15 airbags. Make it safe. Have GPS so I don't get lost. Make it safe. Put on plastic bumpers for pedestrians. Make is safe. Have automatic parallel park, because you are too incompetent to do it yourself. Make it safe. Ban books and remove art from Museums. Make it safe. Install cameras that ruin our freedom. Feel safe. Cavity search grandmothers at airports. Feel safe. Remove anything that stirs the soul. Make life safe.

No passion at all, no danger, no risk, no LIFE. You know what? I want my kids NOT to wear helmets when they ride a bike. I didn't...I was more careful. I don't want my kids to wear knee and elbow pads, because skinned knees taught you pain and how to deal with it. I want boobs and guns and profanity and gore and violence. Because the world is not a pretty, safe place. It is painful and dirty and violent, and if we teach our kids to ignore the worst parts of us, then we teach them also to ignore the most beautiful things in us. How can you possibly appreciate something in the absence of its opposite???

Because if we don't expose ourself to danger and step out of the extremely safe every now and then, we degrade as a society. We become safe.

And our children will hate us for it.

Your obvious biased nature makes your post worthless. Lets face it, jeep liberty doesn't scream character. Be real, the lexus is a much better made car than our jeeps. Just because we own one doesn't mean we have to be like all other bloat headed forum others and disaffirm superiority. Think as Lexus of refined, powerful, and classy rather than bland. Working in a fortune 100 mutual insurance agency, some people are fortunate enough to learn that standing out isn't always a good thing. So, go ahead and show off what you think has characters, get all the attention you would like, while the subtle superiors realize your foolish acts.

When I think of this 270 horse AWD sports car, made by you guessed it...Lexus, the word safety is non-existant.

P.S. Keep showing your kids standing out is best. I'd love to see another generation of attention whores.

I think csukoh78 is entitled to his own opinion. In my opinion, Lexus is more of an "attention whore" than a Jeep, You are spending at least $5K more for a rebadged Toyota so that you can fit in with the Fortune 100 crew as you so blatantly stated. I'm going to agree, Lexus has no soul. The only thing they are good for is being valet parked and waxed. Jeep has a history dating back to WWII and is an American Icon, while no one could remember the heritage of Lexus.

Show me a toyota 270 horse awd sports car? I agree the only thing lexus is good for is being waxed, who cares? Most people don't even offroad there lifted vehiciles anymore (not saying you don't). I'm not saying go buy a expensive car to fit in, I'm saying wasting your money on making a depreciating asset to have 'soul' technically is financial irresponsibility. Most educated people can see it's stupid. Believe me, I've spent thousands.

elephantrider · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:23 pm

Quote:

:roll: Your obvious biased nature makes your post worthless. Lets face it, jeep liberty doesn't scream character. Be real, the lexus is a much better made car than our jeeps. Just because we own one doesn't mean we have to be like all other bloat headed forum others and disaffirm superiority. Think as Lexus of refined, powerful, and classy rather than bland. Working in a fortune 100 mutual insurance agency, some people are fortunate enough to learn that standing out isn't always a good thing. So, go ahead and show off what you think has characters, get all the attention you would like, while the subtle superiors realize your foolish acts.

When I think of this 270 horse AWD sports car, made by you guessed it...Lexus, the word safety is non-existant.

P.S. Keep showing your kids standing out is best. I'd love to see another generation of attention whores.

touche' on the reply .. not saying i agree or disagree, however, two very good opinions

desertkj · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:24 pm **Posts:** 677

You're right, it doesn't have 270. It has closer to 600 or more tuned.

And from that standpoint, any hobby is financial irresponsibility. It is a matter of what your priorities are.

myjeepwalks · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:36 pm

Dont know what some of you guys are talking about Lexus builds some sweet stupid cars. I used to have an 01' IS300. I wish i didn't have to get rid of it, nicest car i've ever owned. The salesman said I was retarded for trading a lexus in on a p.o.s. jeep liberty. I explained i was buying a condo and couldnt afford both. Dont get me wrong i love my KJ it's alot more useful and practical. :lol:

Donnie · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:42 pm

desertkj wrote:

You're right, it doesn't have 270. It has closer to 600 or more tuned.

And from that standpoint, any hobby is financial irresponsibility. It is a matter of what your priorities are.

Right, so you can go to a dealer and get one of those? More like 320 hp @5600, compare apples to apples.

csukoh78 · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:34 pm **Posts:** 501

Thank you, thank you. (bows deep)

Again, Lexus makes perfectly capable vehicles. That was never the point. Its the fact that the strive toward perfection always destroys passion. I define passion as the desire for a thing for no other reason than it is what you want, without rhyme or reason. It doesn't make sense, and that is the point.

This is not logical. It is not logical to demand Ferrari Red on a Jeep Liberty, when normal red would do. Perfection, however, is perfectly logical. The two are not compatible, and the desire for perfection inexorably leads to stagnation, sterility, and boredom, all of which are unimaginably deadly for the human race.

Not deadly in a living sense, but deadly in that it will kill human passion and what it is to be human, and therefore, as humans, we die to be replaced by that which is unrecognizable. Countless books have been written on dystopian societies, and we are witnessing it in our lifetime.

Where do I start? Our dystopian society has all started with a desire for perfection. Look all around us. Censorship is at an all time high. A woman's breast during a medical procedure is blocked on on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL!!!! Some discovery! A woman's breast was once heralded as pure, motherly, wholesome, and nurturing... something to be respected and revered as a sign of life itself. Now, it is a symbol of obscenity! What do we tell our children about this? That they should feel shame if they see one? That the nude human body is obscene? That women are loathesome? They are the most beautiful creation on this earth!

Censorship......once you lose freedoms you NEVER get them back. Bush has created the largest assault on civil liberties in the history of this country. Books are being banned at an all time high rate. We censor in the name of "right" but in reality we censor in the name of "fear." And media outlets promote this, because fear sells.

Lawsuits...Jesus, don't get me started. Why is it that I am reluctant, as a combat paramedic, to pull over and treat an injured person on the side of the highway? Because a colleague of mine treated a carcrash victim who had a crushed trachea. She would have died had he not performed an emergency tracheotomy. The ambulance did not arrive for 15 mins. She would have been dead in 2. She thanked him for saving her life once she recovered. And then sued him for leaving a scar on her throat, and won! His career was ruined because he chose to save her life. This is unforgivable, but prevalent.

Technology designed to bring us closer has pushed us farther apart, even when beside each other. We have never been crammed so tightly together (subways, cities, schools) but people actively avoid conversation, while their kids plug into their iPods instead of talking to parents or siblings. Some children are online so much that they have not developed normal social skills. They can only express themselves with typed words online, and have anxiety disorders when forced to have normal human face-to-face contact! People no longer visit, they email. They no longer call, they text. They don't even say hello anymore.

Right and wrong no longer exist. It is now Offensive or Non-Offensive.

Christianity, once a noble and proud and respectable religion, has become a clique for conservative, fascist, intolerant bigots. It is a club now that gets people elected and deals signed, even though those who profess to believe in the teachings of Christ almost never follow them. Christ taught us to love our neighbors as brothers despite their failings, and to sacrifice for the good of others. Now, we only love you if you are JUST LIKE US. Churches ban women from being preachers and homosexuals are prohibited. Powerful people in our country are manipulating the words of a saint to serve their own needs. Our country is steadily moving towards a theo-fascist state. "When freedom dies and fascism comes, it will wave an American Flag and preach the Bible."

We censor and delete and destroy that which would offend anyone, at any time, for any reason, all in the strive to create the "perfect" environment free of "bad" feelings where someone might object. The only problem with this is that it is impossible. The more we cater to those who censor, the more we cater to those who would destroy the very thing we are. Being human is about experiences.....and to appreciate the good and beautiful and glorious, we have to experience the painful and uncomfortable and scary. It is what makes us human.....being exposed to challenges and reacting to them. A perfect world is deadly to us.

We have never been in more danger than we are right now.

Think about this next time you hear of a nipple being covered up on a masterpeice.

PS Did you know that the original Lexus motto was "The Relentless Pursuit of Perfection.?"

It was changed to "The Passionate Pursuit of Perfection" because American buyers thought it sounded too cold and mechanical.

I find it fitting that the default term used to describe "perfection" was "relentless." The word "passionate" was never associated with perfection in the human mind until a marketing decision was made.

csukoh78 · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:34 pm **Posts:** 501

"Be real, the lexus is a much better made car than our jeeps."

Obliviousness this thorough should be applauded. You completely do not get the entire point of my post. I affirmed that Lexus is an excellent automaker, but the much more important theme is that I speak to the fact that the desire for perfection is what is wrong with this country, because that desire destroys the different, offensive, objectionable, and thought provoking.

I never said "stand out" or that one should strive to be an attention hound. I spoke of grand themes, and you revert to HP numbers and shiny bumpers.

Your dissent is a near word for word support of my statement.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:57 pm

IF anyone wants to carry on with this use PMs. All makes and tastes are welcome here...BUT...this kind of banter is not appreciated.

Back to normal programming!

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:57 pm

******Back on topic******* Sorry to here that Lucas/Liberty,hope the KJ was good for you and hope the new ride works out well.To each his own,at somepoint everybody moves on and to what is your choice,or in this case the boss's choice :wink: