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 Post subject: Unveiling of the 08 Liberty
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:13 pm 
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This is one of our local riding areas. Looks like they got another major event. They just won one of the BF Goodrich 10 best trails awards.

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http://gcdailyworld.com/story/1233479.html


Redbird SRA to host North American auto writers for unveiling of 2008 Jeep Liberty
Wednesday, July 25, 2007
By Nick Schneider, Assistant Editor

DUGGER -- About 150 North American auto industry journalists and photographers will converge on Redbird State Riding Area, located between Linton and Dugger, next month for the unveiling and test driving of the 2008 Jeep Liberty and Dodge Caliber SR-T4 compact sport vehicle manufactured by Chrysler Group -- headquartered in Auburn Hills, MI.
Chrysler Group has leased the Indiana Department of Natural Resources owned facility that is operated by a private management group for this event that will be closed to the general public.

An advance Jeep team will arrive at the site sometime during the week of Aug. 13 and the actual unveiling and test driving of the new vehicles will take place on weekdays between Aug. 20 and Sept. 1, according to Chrysler Group communication spokesperson Diane Gutierrez.

Redbird will remain open on the weekends to the general public.

Gutierrez said the event is a time to showcase the newly-designed Jeep Liberty and she said Redbird offers an excellent location to highlight the vehicle.

The writers will actually drive the vehicle in the field over a special course that will be set up by Jeep engineers. After driving the vehicles extensively, the writers will then file a variety of review stories for international publications.

This group of writers will come from the United States, Canada and Mexico.

Gutierrez noted that the writer's group will be housed in Indianapolis and will drive Jeep Liberty's to Redbird and then engage in some serious off-roading events. They will also be driving the Dodge Caliber SR-T4 vehicles to Lincoln Park Speedway in Putnamville where they will be field tested under race track conditions.

"We think the Jeep Liberty is a great vehicle and Redbird is a great location to show it off," she said.

Gutierrez said the Redbird site was selected after someone at a Jeep event suggested it might make a good place to test drive and unveil a product line.

Chrysler officials followed up on the suggestion -- visited the site -- and made the arrangements after liking what they saw there, she explained.

Chrysler Group on Monday announced the production launch of the all-new 2008 Jeep Liberty, which is being built at the company's Toledo North Assembly Plant in Toledo, Ohio. The all-new Jeep Liberty is being built alongside the Dodge Nitro which began production in August 2006.

All-new from the ground up for 2008, the Jeep Liberty remains true to its legendary 4x4 heritage by offering two Jeep Trail Rate four-wheel-drive systems -- Command-Trac and the all-new Selec-Trac II. On-road ride and handling have been improved and refined with the new independent front suspension, new five-link rear suspension and rack-and-pinion steering, according to company officials.

The Liberty's exterior has been redesigned, and takes on a more rugged, classic Jeep look that is sure to captivate the attention of current Jeep Liberty owners and broaden its consumer appeal. Inside, cargo and storage space increases and seat comfort improves. Making its world debut is the new Sky Slider full-open canvas roof, an industry-exclusive; giving the Jeep Liberty that "Only in a Jeep" open-air experience. Remote start, rain-sensing wipers, memory seats and mirrors, and express up/down windows are added to the vehicle's ever-growing list of available features and options. There are two models -- Jeep Liberty Sport and Jeep Liberty Limited.

One of the local people who put the Redbird deal together with Chrysler was Tim Garrett, of Sullivan, who serves as president of the Redbird Management Association.

"This is very exciting for us," he said. "This facility has a lot to offer as far as trails and training."

"We are providing the facility basically," Garrett said. "We don't know who and how they will do it or the logistics of it."

He stressed that the Chrysler event will not interfere with the normal weekend operations at Redbird and will provide the entire area with an excellent economic development opportunity.

"This is a private booking during the week when we are normally closed," he said.

Garrett said part of the plan is for Chrysler to do several "cosmetic" improvements at the park -- such as landscaping to make it more eye-appealing to the visiting writers.

"A lot of those (improvements) are already underway. They are planting some additional trees and scrubs and giving it more of a look," he said.

Garrett said Redbird officials are grateful for the opportunity that is being provided to them by Chrysler.

"We are so thrilled to be able to host this. It has taken a lot of work by a lot of people to make this happen," he said.

Garrett said Chrysler officials first contacted him about 10 months ago and made an initial inquiry about the availability of the off-road riding facility for a closed, private booking.

About 30-days later he got another call from Chrysler personnel who wanted to come down and take a look at the facility.

The deal was then made.

"They have been wonderful people to work with. They are putting a lot of money into this and there will be a lot of money put into the community," Garrett said.

He added, "There are a variety of companies putting this thing together. They (Chrysler) have a lot of subcontractors and a lot of promotional companies helping with this."

Garrett said a host of local merchants are also involved in the project.

"Everybody is bending over backwards to help them," he added. "There are a lot of hours being put into this."

Garrett continued, "From a community standpoint and from an economic development standpoint, it's a great opportunity for us. We are really excited at this point. They (Chrysler) is so happy with what has been done so far. Most of these companies talk with other companies. Dugger, IN and Redbird State Riding Area will be in the loop from now on. It will bring in outside revenue into the community."

DNR Redbird Property Manager Nila Armstrong says the state is thrilled to be hosting the Jeep event.

"It's a big deal for all of us," she said. "We're excited about it. They (the writers) are from all around the world. This is good for the whole state."

The Redbird facility formerly served as a coal mine.

In 1943, the Friar Tuck mine opened in Greene County, and until it closed 1952, was reported to have produced three million tons of coal. Two years later in 1945, the Redbird Coal Company began mining on the west side of Friar Tuck in Sullivan County. After producing 2 million tons of coal, Redbird closed operations in 1950.

Reclamation efforts at the time consisted of planting some pine trees and moving on. Left behind were acid lakes and extreme hills. In the 1970's, off-highway, motorized vehicle users found the area to be a perfect place to test machinery and driving skills. As sales of Jeeps and motorcycles increased, so did unregulated activity at the area commonly known as "Redbird."

In 1972 the Indiana Department of Natural Resources completed a report on ORV trends and environmental impacts. Based on recommendations from the report, the Natural Resources Commission adopted a policy prohibiting ORV/OHV's on DNR properties.

After interest in the area resurfaced in 1987, 1990 and 1995, internal meetings at DNR recommended the Division of Outdoor Recreation assume the responsibility for handling a strategy for the Redbird site. In December 1996, the division reported to the Natural Resources Commission to address the issue anew.

A first, although abbreviated, riding season at Redbird began in 2003.

Redbird has flourished into 800 acres of off-roading enjoyment.

Directions to Redbird from Linton.

-Heading West out of Linton, Indiana on State Road 54 towards Dugger.

-2.5 miles west of the Highway 54 - 59 split turn right (North) onto 1500 West. (Approximately 5 miles west of Linton.)

-Traveling North on 1500 West, take your first gravel road to the left (West) or 350 North.

-The Main Entrance is about 1 mile West on County Road 350 North.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:40 pm 
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i was under the impresson this 08 was getting better fuel economy, according to the info released on it, its getting worse:

2007-standard MPG (all configs) 18/23
2008-standard MPG (Auto/4WD) 15/21


Source:

http://www.allpar.com/trucks/jeep/liberty-2008.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:28 pm 
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dont forget...
the EPA revised how fuel economy would be calculated to be more real world for 2008 model year vehicles. if you look on their website for the new fuel economy standard for a 2007 jeep liberty 4x4 with an auto, its 15 city 21 highway, so it stayed the same!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:14 pm 
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yay im above the epa. I get 16.9 city

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:26 pm 
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i get about 17.3-18.1. highway is about 22.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:04 pm 
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In all honesty, I hope it tanks.....pun intended.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:06 pm 
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_UnLiMiTeD_ wrote:
i was under the impresson this 08 was getting better fuel economy, according to the info released on it, its getting worse:

2007-standard MPG (all configs) 18/23
2008-standard MPG (Auto/4WD) 15/21


Source:

http://www.allpar.com/trucks/jeep/liberty-2008.html


It uses the same engine in a bigger vehicle...highly doubt it will get better gas mileage. :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:55 am 
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coming from the scion crowd, most current scion xB owners hate the new xB with a passion because the new xB isnt what an xB is supposed to be; toyota basically softened it up. the same can be said with the new kk from what i see. not many current kj owners feel that it sticks to what a jeep is and that its softened to appeal to a broader market. i think the biggest thing is the spare tire underneath the vehicle, no too many off roaders i know here are fans of it at all. i dont like how it dosent look rugged anymore, and chrysler took no effort to distinguish it from its dodge nitro cousin, other than the front end and the side glass. and it has too many frills... which directly relate to an inflated price tag.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:02 am 
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Jeep could have at least made the new KK with bigger wheelwells for bigger tires (stock and aftermarket). Instead they took away some approach and departure angle and really did not add that much interior room at all. They only "stand out change" is the rear floor area that is flat. As for styling, they make it look like the Commander which is being discontinued after 2008 because of poor sales figures (probably more related to price and mpg figures). I am really surprised they left the Solid Rear Axle...they should have just gone ahead and IRS'ed it to finish it off.

I just don't see it being as successful as the original 2002-2007 Jeep Liberty...best selling SUV in its class...Ford Escape being NUMBER TWO (pun intended...lol).

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:50 am 
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i loved the first gen ford escape, before the mid cycle redesign. it was a pretty tough car-based suv and you could get it in yellow!!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:16 pm 
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Jeeps had their OWN distinctive looks. Nobody else looked like a Jeep...well, the old Toyota's came close to looking like CJ's, but not related at all.

Now we have Jeeps sharing their looks with Dodge. Hopefully not for long with ownership changing hands.

I always liked Jeeps growing up, even though I wasn't into off-roading or had one until my Liberty. I had always wanted a CJ 5 to CJ7. I liked that Jeeps were rugged and different from everybody else. You didn't have Camaro-Firebird, Nova-Cutlass, Bobcat-Pinto, Monte Carlo-Cutluss Supreme, Toyota-Mazda-Datsun pickups, Maxima-Camry, and so-forth look-a-likes. Chrysler ruined that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:21 pm 
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Yes it was always if you saw a Jeep it was a Jeep no trouble finding it, but they are going like everyone else, all cookie cutter, looking the same as everything else. The new one will sell (to soccer moms) no doubt but as far as being as good as the KJ currently overall I dont think so, too long , too well still think ugly. Would be fun to be down there when they do the testing, too see if they really put them to any kind of a test!

Tom

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Hmmm now I believe I heard a lot of the same things said about the Liberty when it was due for release. "Mall crawler" "Grocery Getter" "Soccer moms will love it" and "Not made to go off road". Well there have been quite a few to prove these early assumptions wrong. While I do not wheel our Libby simply due to the fact that our beat up, locked,geared, and purpose built Toyota is much more capable. Plus if it gets some trail rash or rolls it won't even show on it. I do think that the Libby can be a great fun off road vehicle as there are some rather nicely built ones on this site. I do also believe that with the new ones coming out that there will likewise be some people that will build them into a capable off road vehicle. Maybe fewer built or taken off road than the current model. But there are fewer Libertys seen off road than the previous XJ, and fewer of them then there are YJs and CJs. I also believe that vehicle age, price and availability has more to do with this than actual vehicle.

If you haven't ever been to Redbird you are missing some good wheeling. They have some good trails from easy fire road type trails to some awesome slick hills and very tricky off cambers. There are a few rocks that have been brought in and put into a nice little rock area with a nice climb. If it is wet you will need mud tires for sure as the stripper pit hills can get very very slick after a rain.
If someone wants to try it out some time let me know. But no I won't be in the Libby not because it isn't able, but rather it is too nice for me to bash on the trails, at least for now anyway.

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 Post subject: ISN'T THE NEW AND IMPROVED LIBERTY WONDERFUL??
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:21 pm 
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To any one willing to Swallow this Hype about the New and Improved Liberty.

#1 Are you related to Linda Lovelace??? :oops:

#2 Remember the biggest difference between RAPE and ROMANCE is SALESMANSHIP :lol: :lol: :lol:

LEAD :D FOLLOW :P or GET OUT of THE WAY :shock: :twisted: 8) :-)r :-)r


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:46 am 
I can't help but notice that all these comments mirror what was heard what..ooh...about 6 years ago about some OTHER new-kid-on-the-block Jeep that was replacing a beloved "icon" that was around for 16 years?

*EDIT*

I just saw your reply, mudcat...great minds think alike!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:57 am 
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Yes but that was with something that no one knew for sure how it would be, now since we know its all good, but making something bigger, fatter, longer etc is not good, plus its ugly.

ThunderbirdJunkie, if you are at all into Ford Thunderbirds then you know what making a vehicle bigger and bigger can do to it. Re: The Thunderbird, came out great little 2 seater, then went a little bigger to a 4 seater while still OK not quite as good then when whole hog to the large cars division! Finally killed it off for good only to be brought back as what ...a nice small 2 seater. Another one the Mercury Cougar, but then thats the way they do them all. IF they would of revised the KJ making it a little different looking but still retaining the same size then maybe but not now,

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:46 am 
tommudd wrote:
. Re: The Thunderbird, came out great little 2 seater, then went a little bigger to a 4 seater while still OK not quite as good then when whole hog to the large cars division! Finally killed it off for good only to be brought back as what ...a nice small 2 seater. Another one the Mercury Cougar, but then thats the way they do them all. IF they would of revised the KJ making it a little different looking but still retaining the same size then maybe but not now,


believe me, I know all about that...but (off topic) they killed off a great coupe (because of slow sales), and 5 years later introduced an anemic, slow, overweight, poor-handling two seater that looks vageuly like the Corvette's competition from the '50s. (which also got killed off because of slow sales). The '55 T-bird was a real sports car, not something that 15 year old girls want because it's "cute" (or, maybe it was, but at least it was still a real sports car), but the fact of the matter is, the T-bird is irrelevant in this argument (although I understand your point). As far as T-birds go, I'm not really a fan of them unless it was a year when they were offered only as a coupe with a forced induction variant (but I DO have a soft spot for the 58-66s...)

Back to the KK
Sure, it MIGHT not be as good off road as our KJs are, but it's improved in a lot of areas. I bet the seats are a HELL of a lot better than what came in my 02 Sport, and I'll even bet it has some rear legroom (not that that affects me, since I rarely carry more than one other person). If it has more cargo room behind the back seat, that'll be a HUGE improvement, and the fact that the back seats fold down FLAT is also a huge improvement.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:02 am 
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I can see everyones point of view but I still dont like what I have seen so far. As far as seats go, there are better seats out there, but I have ran from Orlando to Toledo and also Toledo to Boston non stop except for gas/ roller dogs and never had a problem with the seats.
Thats what is great though I can keep my KJ and even find another one for the wife at a decent price when everyone jumps on the latest greatest band wagon :wink:
By the way a 65 Thunderbird is my favorite, although I have owned one of every size!

tom

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:03 am 
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Chrysler already makes AWD vehicles with more leg room, more comfortable seats, and more cargo area. They are called Caravans. Im not saying the KK is going that way, but look at what happened to the Durango...

Image

Image

Image

^^^^^^^
thats not a durango :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:09 am 
I wasn't a Durango fan, new or old...although I will say that I've seen some beefcake 98-03s that were pretty nicely built.

Tom, I've driven my KJ similar distances...the KJ's base model seats were changed somewhere along the line (04?). Take a ride in my 02 sometime...they SUCK:)
oh, and what's a roller dog?


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